Vs RoadAndTrack: Lexus IS350 F-Sport vs BMW 335i M-Sport vs Cadillac ATS vs Q50 Sport

[330CIZHP]

Motor Trend will probably be doing a similar comparison. Would be interesting to see what they say.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I think Lexus has finally put all of its focus and attention on making highly diserable cars.

I saw it in real life and it looks great, I think personally. Very wide and low stance with short overhangs. Also a low beltline.

Funny thing is, it looks TINY in real life (I like small looking cars). I don't know, but it looks very small since the interior is definitely good for 4 6 footers.

Also sat inside one in the dealership and it feels like a fighter jet cockpit inside. Very deep, bolstered seats, low driving position and everything is driver centric. Funny I sat inside an IS-F parked next to it and it felt very dated, bland inside by comparison.

Honestly, it feels like a continuation of my E46 3-series.

Went to a Lexus dealer over my break as my dad was entertaining the notion of getting an ES (don't ask)....I sat in the IS. I really liked the cockpit. It felt sporty and unique. Did not care for their infotainment interface, though. They are really lagging in that area. The backseat still felt tight to me. To me, the exterior styling really works in person. However, I would argue that the front headlight setup could have been better integrated.

If I wasn't spending my time trying to convince my dad not to even bother with the ES, I would have loved to test drive the IS.

 

[Rolf]

Three crap tests, the american magazines are biased towards American cars and also love Lexus. First of all I sat inside both Lexus and 3 series and I also own an E90 3 series and the Lexus driver comfort is worse than both BMW's and is also worse than Audi A4 and C Class Merc. The cabin width is very narrow with minimal elbow room, much less than the 3 German cars. The seat also felt short in the squab for me. The back space is even worse, with the seat set back for my 184cm frame there was hardly any space between the back of drivers seat and back squab. The fit and finish and build quality of materials is not as good as all 3 German cars, there is too much hard plastic and the joystick feels too loose in th hand with no resistance when using. The Inside styling would rate it on par with 3 series but not better. Also how can the 335i be less flexible than the IS350? It has a turbo motor with higher torque over a broader rev range, total load of crap these road tests. Why does all other magazines in Europe rate the 3 series the best due to its unrivaled handling?

 

[Merc1]

American magazines are not biased in favor or American cars nor do they "love" Lexus. Utterly ridiculous. Otherwise the Cadillac would be at the top also. If anything they've been in love with BMW for years and years. Lexus just produced a car than competes better as BMW got softer. Not easy to figure out. Does that mean the Lexus is just a 100% better car, no. Who buys their car based on a magazine comparison?

M

 

[330CIZHP]

Exactly. Car and driver for decades has given BMW 3-series wins in every single comparison (even an outdated BMW E90 330i won against the 2nd generation IS, G35 and Acura TL due to driving dynamics) and no one ever complained about it from the European fans. They included 3-series in the "10 best" list from ~ 1992 onwards for the next 15 years every year.

Lexus cars like GS, LS used to place near the bottom in nearly all comparisons except a few.

Now, that Lexus has made a car that genuinely has great driving dynamics, which has been placing it ahead, it must be because American magazines are biased. That is laughable and ridiculous.

If anything, by the same token, European magazines logically have far more reasons to be biased towards Europeans than Americans. Why exactly would American magazines be biased towards Japanese cars over Europeans?? What would be the gain? Should the CTS not be the car winning all comparos?? Absolutely makes no sense.

American magazines are not biased in favor or American cars nor do they "love" Lexus. Utterly ridiculous. Otherwise the Cadillac would be at the top also. If anything they've been in love with BMW for years and years. Lexus just produced a car than competes better as BMW got softer. Not easy to figure out. Does that mean the Lexus is just a 100% better car, no. Who buys their car based on a magazine comparison?

M

 

[Rolf]

I drove the new 3 series yesterday and it is really superb. The 8 speed automatic combined with 2.0ltr turbo diesel gives it immediate response and it is very fast. The cabin is certainly more spacious and better built than the Lexus, although in some areas of the cabin (centre console) it uses inferior materials to my E90. The steering is much lighter than my E90 and I would say has less feel but it is very responsive off center and the car has virtually zero roll around corners. Ride comfort is slightly better than my car as well. The infotainment system and connectivity of the IDrive is excellent. Much better controller than the Lexus. As for styling it looks sleek and sporty at same time, the rear styling maybe a little plain but still elegant. The Lexus look is great,, very daring and sporty in a different way to the BMW, I like the rear of the car but front lights are debatable although I do like the front grille looks aggressive.

Exactly. Car and driver for decades has given BMW 3-series wins in every single comparison (even an outdated BMW E90 330i won against the 2nd generation IS, G35 and Acura TL due to driving dynamics) and no one ever complained about it from the European fans. They included 3-series in the "10 best" list from ~ 1992 onwards for the next 15 years every year.

Lexus cars like GS, LS used to place near the bottom in nearly all comparisons except a few.

Now, that Lexus has made a car that genuinely has great driving dynamics, which has been placing it ahead, it must be because American magazines are biased. That is laughable and ridiculous.

If anything, by the same token, European magazines logically have far more reasons to be biased towards Europeans than Americans. Why exactly would American magazines be biased towards Japanese cars over Europeans?? What would be the gain? Should the CTS not be the car winning all comparos?? Absolutely makes no sense.

 

[martinbo]

I drove the new 3 series yesterday and it is really superb.

Agreed.

The 8 speed automatic combined with 2.0ltr turbo diesel gives it immediate response and it is very fast.

Agreed.

The cabin is certainly more spacious and better built than the Lexus, although in some areas of the cabin (centre console) it uses inferior materials to my E90.

Agreed.

The steering is much lighter than my E90 and I would say has less feel but it is very responsive off center and the car has virtually zero roll around corners.

Agreed.

Ride comfort is slightly better than my car as well. The infotainment system and connectivity of the IDrive is excellent.

Agreed.

My goodness. At last, someone who's actually driven an F30 BMW 320d and given an objective and informed appraisal of the car.

I think Rolf is my internet long-lost-twin.

 

[Zafiro]

However a 4-serie is nicer than F30 to drive....

 

[martinbo]

However a 4-serie is nicer than F30 to drive....

No way... really? The lower, wider, sportier, two-door coupe drives better? Unbelievable - those arseholes at BMW don't know what they're doing.

 

[Baron Grüner]

Three crap tests, the american magazines are biased towards American cars and also love Lexus. First of all I sat inside both Lexus and 3 series and I also own an E90 3 series and the Lexus driver comfort is worse than both BMW's and is also worse than Audi A4 and C Class Merc. The cabin width is very narrow with minimal elbow room, much less than the 3 German cars. The seat also felt short in the squab for me. The back space is even worse, with the seat set back for my 184cm frame there was hardly any space between the back of drivers seat and back squab. The fit and finish and build quality of materials is not as good as all 3 German cars, there is too much hard plastic and the joystick feels too loose in th hand with no resistance when using. The Inside styling would rate it on par with 3 series but not better. Also how can the 335i be less flexible than the IS350? It has a turbo motor with higher torque over a broader rev range, total load of crap these road tests. Why does all other magazines in Europe rate the 3 series the best due to its unrivaled handling?

well said, that about sums it up... saved me some typing. only part I dont agree with you is the interior styling, I wouldnt say its on a par with 3 series, I think its not even close. I really dont like it. but those graphics are kinda nice though.

and in anyway, its not just the objective stuff where lexus doesnt work for me, its just that lexus can not be more than appliance to me. and in this segment especially I wouldnt touch it with the ten foot pole

 

[Monster]

As it has always been, the best reviews are the ones that agrees with your own opinion.

 

[Benek]

So, BMW 335i is the most comfortable, ergonomics and capacious that's why it is so highly ranked. In terms of driving and fun is killed by IS350 and the ATS. That's not new.

 

[Baron Grüner]

As it has always been, the best reviews are the ones that agrees with your own opinion.

care to elaborate perhaps?

 

[330CIZHP]

And on the "objective stuff", you also lost all your credibility with such a statement.

Clearly, you are trying to throw old stereotypes to reel it back to where it was 10 years ago when Lexus was the most boring and bland brand on earth (save the IS300). Things could not be more different now.

and in anyway, its not just the objective stuff where lexus doesnt work for me, its just that lexus can not be more than appliance to me. and in this segment especially I wouldnt touch it with the ten foot pole

 

[Baron Grüner]

clearly, you didnt understand what I said so let me rephrase it for you - lexus is an ugly POS for which I have about as much emotion as for blender and I dont care how good it drives. notice that this is not 'objective stuff', this is MY OPINION or to put it more precise how I FEEL about it. now, are you trying to tell me how should I feel about something?

 

[Benek]

@martinbo

Did you see that?

 

[martinbo]

Yeah, I've seen it, means nothing to me...

 

[Baron Grüner]

I see bmw lost by one... and I see they factored in styling, both int and ext.
so does that mean that the outcome would be entirely different has it been some other guys with different taste testing the cars lol

 

[Benek]

But lost heavily in steering feel, handling and ride where BMW fans are boast that BMW is the best and for that they love them.

 

[martinbo]

Please man, steering feel has left the building ages ago. Most people don't even know what real steering feel is. It's been going on since the advent of power steering. Even the E92 M3 had steering feel that an E46 CSL owner would laugh at. Times change.