Headlines Rimac to Acquire Bugatti from VAG

advantage20 · Sep 18, 2020

Alain001 said:
Experts from GM and Bosch, etc., have done their homework before investing in Nikola Motor Company.

Experts from GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer, Walgreens, Safeway, then, The Walton Family, Larry Ellison, Carlos Slim, Rupert Murdoch, The Cox Family, Betsy DeVos, Don Lucas, Tim Draper, Betsy DeVos, have done their homework before investing in Theranos, even USFDA "bought the story". Juicero, WeWork, Enron, Madoff, Wirecard, WorldCom, etc., the list is countless...

BTW JLR and Magna did not invest anything, also, Porsche bought a stake from China Dynamics which left Rimac automobili.

For those of you which for some reason can't google translate croatian to english from - Rimac, pogled s druge strane:

https://www.hr385.com/cose/Rimac.pdf

Brief summary:

They started with the money which is stolen, and they are involved in Panama Papers money loundering. Few key players, Ivan Rimac, Franck Christian Kanayet Yepes and many Croatian politicians.

Mate is not a genius, inventor, or innovator, he is an entrepreneur, he bought parts (with stolen money) and paid other people to assemble them. Media is trying to portrait him like poor refugee from Bosnia and Herzegovina who fled from war:

Could Mate Rimac’s electric supercars overtake Tesla?

Mate Rimac: Building the Future with NextEngine

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Mate Rimac, out of the ashes, genius
1992. Croatia descends into chaos
Amid the violence of war
Out of the ashes of economic ruin
Mate Rimac adventure begins
2012. Mate Rimac not only survived, he built a car company

Reality:

"For me, money is no problem."

Possibility of an race EV?

Fast forward:

They are primarily software company. They also make battery packs (with battery cells from A123 Systems, and similar companies). BMS is from Analog Devices, electric motors were from AMRacing (all from AM Racing, not even a hint from R&D from Rimac there, inside was Remy core, Remy is now under BorgWarner)... Inverters from Cascadia Motion (Nikola uses the same), etc... They have some CNC machinery so they make nice casings for things that are bought, and they have two autoclaves for smaller carbon parts...

Concept One is modded Factory Five GTM Kit car, body is made by Board Guardian, they also made body for Applus-Idiada Volar-e, where they also took money from the EU...

Concept Two, some parts are from optimized - engineering, monocoque from Mubea Carbotech (they make monocoque for McLaren cars... Lights are from 3T-am, HMI is Toradex/Qt, wheels are HRE, brakes Brembo, etc... But Rimac moto is that they are making everything from first drawing on the paper by themselves, all in-house on the site R&D and production. Even on official Rimac webpage, you can find:

"With every aspect of the C_Two produced on-site at Rimac’s facility..."

"even the jigs and tooling for each individual piece are produced on-site"

On the other hand we have companies that actually produce powertrains and drivetrains, Koncar is one of them...

As breathtaking as Mozart's Requiem is, I'm not convinced it is the most suitable piece for an ad which portrays the use of cutting-edge technology to break out of the necrological paradigm of fossil energy and shape a bright, optimistic and sustainable future.

KiwiRob · Sep 18, 2020

dalab said:

That’s is so hideous I had to report the post

KiwiRob · Sep 18, 2020

Jimmy said:
I ask myself whether the late Ferdinand Piechs' "hobby" of collecting fabled brands in order to expand the VAG portfolio has now, marching into a new electric frontier, become an archaic business model. After all, the allure of highly elevated brands so significantly anchored in internal combustion drivetrains may very well fade into oblivion when BE drivetrains become the dominant mode of propelling automobiles. The names "Bentley", "Lamborghini", "Bugatti" may eventually be reduced to nothing more than smoke and mirrors in an age in which names such as Rimac, Rivian, Polestar, Automobili Pininfarina, Lucid, etc. are accumulating ever more street cred in a digitalized, electric world. What will be more financially viable for VAG: converting existing corporate exotica into BEVs' ? Or jettisoning it into the hands of bidders while the bidding remains relatively high ? Eventually, economies of scale, ensuing production cost reductions as well as the vast configural possibilities offered by BEV platforms can allow Porsche and Audi to develope and market a plethora of automobiles of the highest standard. And thus, in the mid-to-longer term, they could cover bases that Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti left vacant. Simply my thoughts.

I think the opposite, with the ease of making BEV platforms it will make it much easier for the super exotic brands to make super exotic vehicles for there exclusive clientele, like the old days when the stinking rich purchased a chassis and had a bespoke body made for it. This is mana from heaven for a brand like Bugatti IMO.

Deleted member 1071 · Sep 19, 2020

KiwiRob said:
I think the opposite, with the ease of making BEV platforms it will make it much easier for the super exotic brands to make super exotic vehicles for there exclusive clientele, like the old days when the stinking rich purchased a chassis and had a bespoke body made for it. This is mana from heaven for a brand like Bugatti IMO.

Certainly also a possible scenario. Especially when large established manufacturers are indicating their willingness to provide their BEV platforms to smaller, specialty automobile companies. VAGs' executive/luxury/sport PPE (and "SPE" derivative) BEV toolkit, for example, could very well be supplied to small, outside producers.

In any event, collaboration is of utmost essence. VAG/Rimac is a smart move methinks and I suspect that we will be seeing far more of this in the not-to-distant future. Interesting is also recent innuendo regarding an upcoming Tesla Roadster "super/hyper BEV" to be marketed by a stand-alone Volkswagen "ID R" subsidiary. So far, nothing more has been indicated other than it will be a "2 door coupe".

Alain001 · Sep 20, 2020

Rolf said:
Wow I didnt know Rimac was that wealthy to purchase Bugatti. Holy Shit!

Greyp Bikes d.o.o.: Öffentliches Angebot ohne Prospekt

Es besteht der hinreichende Verdacht, dass in Deutschland Wertpapiere in Form von „GREYP“-Token öffentlich angeboten werden.

www.bafin.de

BaFinJournal November 2019

Verbraucherschutzforum / Fintech-Marktbeobachtung / Interview mit CSFO / Jahreskonferenz der Versicherungsaufsicht

www.bafin.de

VIDEO: Rimac dobio po prstima u Njemačkoj, kazna ne bi trebala biti visoka

U medijima je objavljeno kako tvrtki Greyp Bikes u vlasništvu Mate Rimca u Njemačkoj prijeti kazna od čak 200.000 eura. Kako se navodi, njemačko tijelo za

www.lider.media

Funny enough, Krešimir Hlede, CEO Greyp Bikes is also convicted criminal in Croatia.

With regard to the Managing Director, there are no entries relating to a conviction for the violation of a criminal offense that resulted in imprisonment or civil offenses for the commission of fraud or financial crimes under the laws of Republic of Croatia

https://www.docdroid.net/zH3bJvz/approved-offering-document.pdf#page=4

https://platform.neufund.org/LI/Greyp

Nominee: SmartZero UG
Managing Director: Krešimir Hlede
The Nominee is wholly owned by the Issuer.
Grundkapital: 1.000,00 EUR

Issuer: Greyp Bikes d.o.o. (also referred to as the “Company”)
Managing Directors: Mate Rimac, Chief Executive Officer
Krešimir Hlede, Chief Operating Officer

Neufund Platform
Approx. 50% of NEU Tokens are owned by Fifth Force (Liechtenstein) GmbH

Platform Operator: Fifth Force (Liechtenstein) GmbH

Token Offering Operator: Fifth Force (Liechtenstein)
Managing Director: André Eggert

He is convicted exactly for that, for a fraud! There is also a mention of Nadan Vidošević, former president of Croatian Chamber of Commerce, and Ivo Sanader, who stepped down from the function of the Prime Minister of Croatia because of a fraud, some of the trials are in the process...

https://www.poslovni.hr/hrvatska/pr...celnici-piramide-se-nagodili-s-uskokom-268477

More about Greyp ETO here:

https://rimac.home.blog/

Jimmy said:
Some very interesting and (I suspect) insightful elaborations. I recall having read quite recently (www.motorauthority.com, I believe) that JLR and Magna have made small investments in Rimac. It seems however that some sort of mix-up took place in which "collaborations" were misstated as being "investments". "Collaboration" can be a pliable term in which significance is closely tied to extent. Hence, my source (and myself) stand corrected. But whatever, the informative input is very much appreciated.

JLR and Magna does not have investments in Rimac or in Greyp.

This is the official Croatian commercial register:

https://sudreg.pravosudje.hr/registar/f?p=150:28:0::NO:28:P28_SBT_MBS:080712981

I don't know for collaboration with Magna, regarding JLR, they made one battery pack for one Jaguar E-type Zero concept.

Also, they made several battery packs for 8 existing Koenigsegg Regera cars (why am I saying several, well, Koenigsegg had issues with batterypacks, electric motors are from YASA Limited (Rimac does not make electric motors or invertors, he buys them).

There are plans for Aston Martin Valkyrie concept, Rimac should supply battery packs, electric motors are from Integral Powertrain Ltd.

They also made battery pack for Seat Cupra e-Racer concept, there is an excellent view, you can clearly see the inverters:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-forum-93taj0u.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRycXoLvUo4

That are bought from:

http://web.archive.org/web/20180116025103/http://www.rinehartmotion.com/standard.html

KiwiRob said:
VAG aren't selling Bugatti they are acquiring Rimac via a company swap. They will still partially own Bugatti through owning a 49% stake in Rimac, I bet it won't be long before that ownership stake is increased.

From 2021, phased in from 2020, the EU fleet-wide average emission target for new cars will be 95 g CO2/km.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en

There are also ZEV regulations:

Auto manufacturers are required to produce a number of ZEVs and plug-in hybrids each year, based on the total number of cars sold in California by the manufacturer. Manufacturers with higher overall sales of all vehicles are required to make more ZEVs. Requirements are in terms of percent credits, ranging from 4.5 percent in 2018 to 22 percent by 2025.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-vehicle-program/about

Etc., read CO2 taxes...

Just one Bugatti Chiron = 516g/km of CO2

Possible solution, they dump Bugatti (which Ferdinand Piech bought for about 50 million EUR), to Rimac, they will be the major owners, they have the platform (Concept Two which Rimac said that they sold all of the 150 examples right after showing the Concept 2 in 2018 in Geneva, what is another lie), they dump ICE engines, and rename Concept Two to Bugatti ...whatever, and with making Bugatti full BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle), they get rid of carbon taxes...

Some other companies are doing that in some other ways:

Fiat Chrysler to spend €1.8bn on CO2 credits from Tesla

https://www.ft.com/content/fd8d205e-6d6b-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d

hoffmeister_fan said:
RIMAC has had some impressive success in its relatively short existence.

They are amongst the best in the world in PR lies, fraud, money laundering, and all sort of schemes, as is the whole Croatia which is one of the most corrupted countries in the world.

advantage20 said:
As breathtaking as Mozart's Requiem is, I'm not convinced it is the most suitable piece for an ad which portrays the use of cutting-edge technology to break out of the necrological paradigm of fossil energy and shape a bright, optimistic and sustainable future.

???

Deleted member 1071 · Sep 21, 2020

Alain001 said:
They are not. This are financial records, you can see that Rimac automobili are operating with a loss (even with the goverment helping them with millions):

1 EUR is 7,54 HRK

Unfortunately no data for 2009, 2010 and 2011:

2012:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2012-transparen7vkt7.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2012-transparen7lkne.jpg

2013:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2013-transparendrkon.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2013-transparenhsj1r.jpg

2014:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2014-transparenbgje0.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2014-transparencxkwz.jpg

2015:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2015-transparend3k2m.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2015-transparen29kpn.jpg

2016:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2016-transparenm3j5h.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2016-transparen2mkvd.jpg

2017:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2017-transparen16k1b.jpg

https://abload.de/img/rimac-2017-transparenudkhz.jpg

2018 is the latest i have:

https://abload.de/img/01h4kbp.jpg

https://abload.de/img/02shk2t.jpg

https://abload.de/img/000001z6k8r.jpg

There is also Greyp bicycles (they also don't make anything except pedals and handlebars), Porsche have a stake in them, for which Croatian goverment claims they are the leaders in the market of the electric bicycles:

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Financial records (also no data before 2013):

2013:

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2013-transparenfjqbw.jpg

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2013-transparenyjomc.jpg

2014:

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2014-transparen4rqev.jpg

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2014-transparenzfqqf.jpg

2015:

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2015-transparenwurwl.jpg

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2015-transparenqmohm.jpg

2016:

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2016-transparenjwrzx.jpg

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2016-transparen2xoza.jpg

2017:

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2017-transparent4r58.jpg

https://abload.de/img/greyp-2017-transparenx4p5l.jpg

2018:

https://abload.de/img/01-greyp8xkkb.jpg

https://abload.de/img/02-greypmgjhk.jpg

https://abload.de/img/000002pojsp.jpg

Greyp tried fundraising money, crowdinvesting throught blockchain digital Equity token offering (ETO), although they raised some money, that was a flop, BaFins stopped sales (at least in Germany), and they were fined:

Greyp Bikes d.o.o.: Öffentliches Angebot ohne Prospekt

Es besteht der hinreichende Verdacht, dass in Deutschland Wertpapiere in Form von „GREYP“-Token öffentlich angeboten werden.

www.bafin.de

BaFinJournal November 2019

Verbraucherschutzforum / Fintech-Marktbeobachtung / Interview mit CSFO / Jahreskonferenz der Versicherungsaufsicht

www.bafin.de

VIDEO: Rimac dobio po prstima u Njemačkoj, kazna ne bi trebala biti visoka

U medijima je objavljeno kako tvrtki Greyp Bikes u vlasništvu Mate Rimca u Njemačkoj prijeti kazna od čak 200.000 eura. Kako se navodi, njemačko tijelo za

www.lider.media

Funny enough, Krešimir Hlede, CEO Greyp Bikes is also convicted criminal in Croatia.

With regard to the Managing Director, there are no entries relating to a conviction for the violation of a criminal offense that resulted in imprisonment or civil offenses for the commission of fraud or financial crimes under the laws of Republic of Croatia

https://www.docdroid.net/zH3bJvz/approved-offering-document.pdf#page=4

https://platform.neufund.org/LI/Greyp

Nominee: SmartZero UG
Managing Director: Krešimir Hlede
The Nominee is wholly owned by the Issuer.
Grundkapital: 1.000,00 EUR

Issuer: Greyp Bikes d.o.o. (also referred to as the “Company”)
Managing Directors: Mate Rimac, Chief Executive Officer
Krešimir Hlede, Chief Operating Officer

Neufund Platform
Approx. 50% of NEU Tokens are owned by Fifth Force (Liechtenstein) GmbH

Platform Operator: Fifth Force (Liechtenstein) GmbH

Token Offering Operator: Fifth Force (Liechtenstein)
Managing Director: André Eggert

He is convicted exactly for that, for a fraud! There is also a mention of Nadan Vidošević, former president of Croatian Chamber of Commerce, and Ivo Sanader, who stepped down from the function of the Prime Minister of Croatia because of a fraud, some of the trials are in the process...

https://www.poslovni.hr/hrvatska/pr...celnici-piramide-se-nagodili-s-uskokom-268477

More about Greyp ETO here:

https://rimac.home.blog/

JLR and Magna does not have investments in Rimac or in Greyp.

This is the official Croatian commercial register:

https://sudreg.pravosudje.hr/registar/f?p=150:28:0::NO:28:P28_SBT_MBS:080712981

I don't know for collaboration with Magna, regarding JLR, they made one battery pack for one Jaguar E-type Zero concept.

Also, they made several battery packs for 8 existing Koenigsegg Regera cars (why am I saying several, well, Koenigsegg had issues with batterypacks, electric motors are from YASA Limited (Rimac does not make electric motors or invertors, he buys them).

There are plans for Aston Martin Valkyrie concept, Rimac should supply battery packs, electric motors are from Integral Powertrain Ltd.

They also made battery pack for Seat Cupra e-Racer concept, there is an excellent view, you can clearly see the inverters:

https://abload.de/img/rimac-forum-93taj0u.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRycXoLvUo4

That are bought from:

http://web.archive.org/web/20180116025103/http://www.rinehartmotion.com/standard.html

From 2021, phased in from 2020, the EU fleet-wide average emission target for new cars will be 95 g CO2/km.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en

There are also ZEV regulations:

Auto manufacturers are required to produce a number of ZEVs and plug-in hybrids each year, based on the total number of cars sold in California by the manufacturer. Manufacturers with higher overall sales of all vehicles are required to make more ZEVs. Requirements are in terms of percent credits, ranging from 4.5 percent in 2018 to 22 percent by 2025.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-vehicle-program/about

Etc., read CO2 taxes...

Just one Bugatti Chiron = 516g/km of CO2

Possible solution, they dump Bugatti (which Ferdinand Piech bought for about 50 million EUR), to Rimac, they will be the major owners, they have the platform (Concept Two which Rimac said that they sold all of the 150 examples right after showing the Concept 2 in 2018 in Geneva, what is another lie), they dump ICE engines, and rename Concept Two to Bugatti ...whatever, and with making Bugatti full BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle), they get rid of carbon taxes...

Some other companies are doing that in some other ways:

Fiat Chrysler to spend €1.8bn on CO2 credits from Tesla

https://www.ft.com/content/fd8d205e-6d6b-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d

They are amongst the best in the world in PR lies, fraud, money laundering, and all sort of schemes, as is the whole Croatia which is one of the most corrupted countries in the world.

???

This is quite an abundance of information to digest. And it is certainly very interesting.

Kindly pardon my asking:

Could (or would) you elaborate your particular objective ? Investigative journalism ? Disgruntlement ?

PanterroR · Sep 21, 2020

Well, thank you for this very informative post and i know my country is f'd up, but this:

Alain001 said:
as is the whole Croatia which is one of the most corrupted countries in the world.

...this is way too much...

Alain001 · Sep 21, 2020

Jimmy said:
This is quite an abundance of information to digest. And it is certainly very interesting.

Kindly pardon my asking:

Could (or would) you elaborate your particular objective ? Investigative journalism ? Disgruntlement ?

I was a "believer" when it first started in 2009., I didn't know the background... Now, 11 years later, I'm just disgusted with all of the lies, and I'm not the only one, just for example, you can read ten of thousands of posts regarding this issue:

Rimac Automobili - Forum.hr

Rimac Automobili (II) - Forum.hr

Rimac Automobili (III) - Forum.hr

PanterroR said:
Well, thank you for this very informative post and i know my country is f'd up, but this:

...this is way too much...

Sorry, in the EU:

Croatia is the European Union member with the highest level of corruption in public procurement and, along with Romania and Bulgaria, it ranks among the most corrupt countries of the EU, a survey commissioned by the European Parliament and carried out by the non-profit RAND Europe institutes shows.

Croatia among most corrupt EU countries | Regional Anti-Corruption Initiative

And Southeast Europe

“Croatia Is The Most Corrupt Country in Southeast Europe”

“Croatia Is The Most Corrupt Country in Southeast Europe”

Croatia — a Member of NATO and the EU Ranked as Most Corrupt Country in Eastern Europe — Vladimir Putin’s Russia falls behind
Research Reveals Hemorrhaging of Billions in Illicit Financial Outflows Via Crime, Corruption and Tax Evasion and Its Adverse Impact on GDP.

Croatia — a Member of NATO and the EU Ranked as Most Corrupt Country in Eastern Europe — Vladimir…
https://medium.com/@LeadersSummit?source=post_page-----df564ecd547f--------------------------------

manuelf · Sep 21, 2020

Alain001 said:
you can read ten of thousands of posts regarding this issue

Hm. Unfortunately my croatian is a bit rusty. Besides: Dobar dan, laku noć, bubamara and stolica ... and some swear words ... there is nothing.

However, cool that you joined here and brought some interessting insights!

Normally one should be cautious, if someone suddenly shows up from nowhere and seems to kick everyones ass (settled mature/big players in a market).
I rather have the feeling, that this caution/questioning takes place less and less. Everyone seems to have a desire for a new fairy tale. A startup, which over night is worth billions - however this value gets calculated! Everything is just stock exchange speculation, roulette and quick money ...

Ozy · Sep 21, 2020

Eastern Europe is still very corrupt compared to the west, but there is corruption in every single country, you can’t hack human nature for now. So given that they built Rimac on stolen money, I think we all agree that they could spend that money better if their aim was to make more on short term and then forget everything and live their lives like nothing happened. So by taking that money and starting Rimac, which objectively created two very very impressive cars, was quite a bold and “good” step from them. Lots of people start companies on laundered money, but they keep that low profile, just to make it clean - telling you as someone from a way more corrupt place than Croatia. Rimac tries to leave a mark in the industry, which is not really the usual and smart way to hide stolen money. So even though I believe it might be more shady than we believed, we can argue about their intentions with the company for the future. You can’t simply create a company, then puzzle together some components and create a car which beats most of the competitors on every term, you gotta do the work to achieve that.

Regarding the Bugatti purchase, making the brand more exclusive - I don’t know how well will it work. So far there was a place for Hypercars because they were way above the sports and super car segment, but given Tesla will deliver on the promises of the new Roadster, for 250-500k$ you will be able to buy a car which will beat any of the million dollar hypercars. Making exclusive trims like Bugatti or Pagani might still work, but since the performance aspect of the wish for these cars will be deliverable at a much lower price, I doubt that any of them will be able to charge as much as they did so far, it simply won’t make sense to pay 10x more for a slower car just because it got some better leather and interior design.

Alain001 · Sep 23, 2020

manuelf said:
Normally one should be cautious, if someone suddenly shows up from nowhere and seems to kick everyones ass (settled mature/big players in a market).
I rather have the feeling, that this caution/questioning takes place less and less. Everyone seems to have a desire for a new fairy tale. A startup, which over night is worth billions - however this value gets calculated! Everything is just stock exchange speculation, roulette and quick money ...

You are absolutely right!

Stories like Theranos, WeWork, Juicero, Rimac, etc., where is due dilligence? I just can't understand it, maybe I have to "take the red pill", and face that the reality that, let's say 9% of all stuff is PR BS and lies?

Ozy said:
I think we all agree that they could spend that money better if their aim was to make more on short term and then forget everything and live their lives like nothing happened.

He had everything when he was very young, he didn't know where to spend the money, and he and his father decided, hey, why don't we make electric car... Or to be more precise, buy parts, and pay other people to assemble them.

It's like Abramovic, when he get's bored, when he thinks what to do next, he had a football club (Chelsea F.C.), Rimac had a football club (Hajduk Split):

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/vijest...j-zatvoren-u-srbiji-optuzen-u-hrvatskoj-24967

Maybe the next idea from Abramovic will be to build electric car, maybe his next idea will be to put sharks in his swimming pool, who knows... Rimac didn't choose to put sharks in his pool, he decided to buy parts for electric car and pay others to assemble them...

Ozy said:
So by taking that money and starting Rimac, which objectively created two very very impressive cars, was quite a bold and “good” step from them.

What is very, very impressive? Concepts, built with bought parts?

Concept One is fast in the straight line, but all EV's are, Concept Two will probably be even faster...

Ozy said:
Lots of people start companies on laundered money, but they keep that low profile, just to make it clean - telling you as someone from a way more corrupt place than Croatia.

11 years later, I think, or at least I hope he is finished with laundering... Although they are still conected to Franck Christian Kanayet Yepes and British Virgin Islands...

Ozy said:
Rimac tries to leave a mark in the industry, which is not really the usual and smart way to hide stolen money. So even though I believe it might be more shady than we believed, we can argue about their intentions with the company for the future.

He is trying to leave a mark, we don't need to argue there. Also, I'm not saying they don't do anything, like i said, they are primarily software company. They also make battery packs (with battery cells from A123 Systems, and similar companies)...

Ozy said:
You can’t simply create a company, then puzzle together some components and create a car which beats most of the competitors on every term, you gotta do the work to achieve that.

Where and what cars did they beat? They beat some of them in the straight line drag racing. But there are faster EV's outh there (bear in mind Concept One is not homologated, and for Concept Two, they received millions from EU and Croatia for homologation, but the car is still not homologated):

http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html

Ozy said:
Regarding the Bugatti purchase, making the brand more exclusive - I don’t know how well will it work. So far there was a place for Hypercars because they were way above the sports and super car segment, but given Tesla will deliver on the promises of the new Roadster, for 250-500k$ you will be able to buy a car which will beat any of the million dollar hypercars. Making exclusive trims like Bugatti or Pagani might still work, but since the performance aspect of the wish for these cars will be deliverable at a much lower price, I doubt that any of them will be able to charge as much as they did so far, it simply won’t make sense to pay 10x more for a slower car just because it got some better leather and interior design.

Like I said, possible solution, they dump Bugatti (which Ferdinand Piech bought for about 50 million EUR), to Rimac, they will be the major owners, they have the platform (Concept Two which Rimac said that they sold all of the 150 examples right after showing the Concept 2 in 2018 in Geneva, what is another lie), they dump ICE engines, and rename Concept Two to Bugatti ...whatever, and with making Bugatti full BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle), they get rid of carbon taxes...

But there are also other EV supercar concepts, Lotus Evija, Tesla Roadster, Nio EP9, Aspark Owl, Dendrobium D-1, Drako GTE, Lucid Air, Hispano-Suiza Carmen Boulogne, Czinger 21C, Genovation GXE, Delage D12, Aria FXE...

I almost forgot, Pinninfarina Battista = Concept Two, similar story was with Concept One and Volar-E, where they took EU money for the same car, they just changed the body:

https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrv...-elektricni-bolid-i-uzeli-eu-milijune-1140617

Sunny · Sep 23, 2020

I know nothing about Rimac, so no comment there.

But dumping Bugatti makes no sense IMO (and I am big on EV). Bugatti is one dinosaur powered vehicle you could sell all day along even 20 years down the line if not for anything but to just sit in a garage (even in the case dino vehicles are banned everywhere).

KiwiRob · Sep 23, 2020

Ozy said:
Regarding the Bugatti purchase, making the brand more exclusive - I don’t know how well will it work. So far there was a place for Hypercars because they were way above the sports and super car segment, but given Tesla will deliver on the promises of the new Roadster, for 250-500k$ you will be able to buy a car which will beat any of the million dollar hypercars. Making exclusive trims like Bugatti or Pagani might still work, but since the performance aspect of the wish for these cars will be deliverable at a much lower price, I doubt that any of them will be able to charge as much as they did so far, it simply won’t make sense to pay 10x more for a slower car just because it got some better leather and interior design.

The people who buy hypercars aren't the same people who will buy a 250k Tesla regardless of how fast it is. They generally want something exclusive, not something which Elon will sell as many as he can build to whoever can pay.

Ozy · Sep 23, 2020

KiwiRob said:
The people who buy hypercars aren't the same people who will buy a 250k Tesla regardless of how fast it is. They generally want something exclusive, not something which Elon will sell as many as he can build to whoever can pay.

Agree with that, but so far higher performance was one of the things that justified their price, after this it won’t be, and simply on quality and limited production numbers they won’t be able to charge 3-8 million per car

Ozy · Sep 23, 2020

Alain001 said:
You are absolutely right!

Stories like Theranos, WeWork, Juicero, Rimac, etc., where is due dilligence? I just can't understand it, maybe I have to "take the red pill", and face that the reality that, let's say 9% of all stuff is PR BS and lies?

He had everything when he was very young, he didn't know where to spend the money, and he and his father decided, hey, why don't we make electric car... Or to be more precise, buy parts, and pay other people to assemble them.

It's like Abramovic, when he get's bored, when he thinks what to do next, he had a football club (Chelsea F.C.), Rimac had a football club (Hajduk Split):

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/vijest...j-zatvoren-u-srbiji-optuzen-u-hrvatskoj-24967

Maybe the next idea from Abramovic will be to build electric car, maybe his next idea will be to put sharks in his swimming pool, who knows... Rimac didn't choose to put sharks in his pool, he decided to buy parts for electric car and pay others to assemble them...

What is very, very impressive? Concepts, built with bought parts?

Concept One is fast in the straight line, but all EV's are, Concept Two will probably be even faster...

11 years later, I think, or at least I hope he is finished with laundering... Although they are still conected to Franck Christian Kanayet Yepes and British Virgin Islands...

He is trying to leave a mark, we don't need to argue there. Also, I'm not saying they don't do anything, like i said, they are primarily software company. They also make battery packs (with battery cells from A123 Systems, and similar companies)...

Where and what cars did they beat? They beat some of them in the straight line drag racing. But there are faster EV's outh there (bear in mind Concept One is not homologated, and for Concept Two, they received millions from EU and Croatia for homologation, but the car is still not homologated):

http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html

Like I said, possible solution, they dump Bugatti (which Ferdinand Piech bought for about 50 million EUR), to Rimac, they will be the major owners, they have the platform (Concept Two which Rimac said that they sold all of the 150 examples right after showing the Concept 2 in 2018 in Geneva, what is another lie), they dump ICE engines, and rename Concept Two to Bugatti ...whatever, and with making Bugatti full BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle), they get rid of carbon taxes...

But there are also other EV supercar concepts, Lotus Evija, Tesla Roadster, Nio EP9, Aspark Owl, Dendrobium D-1, Drako GTE, Lucid Air, Hispano-Suiza Carmen Boulogne, Czinger 21C, Genovation GXE, Delage D12, Aria FXE...

I almost forgot, Pinninfarina Battista = Concept Two, similar story was with Concept One and Volar-E, where they took EU money for the same car, they just changed the body:

https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrv...-elektricni-bolid-i-uzeli-eu-milijune-1140617

Well, I don’t try to defend them much because I barely care where will they end up, but their cars work, and you can’t compare it to for example Theranos which had a $9B valuation and their product didn’t work at all, they made all the tests in other labs. WeWork is more about greedy and occultist founders than about a not working concept, if not their valuation hype fraud, covid would put them out of business easily. So I still believe that they created this company with good intentions, and their actual work in achieving today’s results are quite underestimated by you. I know people who earned money by the bad way, and spent and invested it the same way, it’s 95% of people from such backgrounds. I believe you that not everything is clean, but no one has a tidy life, and in my opinion this Alex Jones kind of “they are the evil” approach is not really suitable here.

Sunny · Sep 23, 2020

Ozy said:
Agree with that, but so far higher performance was one of the things that justified their price, after this it won’t be, and simply on quality and limited production numbers they won’t be able to charge 3-8 million per car

On the contrary, imo, as ICE vehicles die off, a handful of truly niche ones that can stay in business should be able to charge even more. I think the ICE business model will be like the one off/very limited runs we see from Bugatti, Ferrari etc. I can see Ferrari doing a 250 GTO rerun of 10 charging 20 mill each!

TheNewBATMAN · Sep 23, 2020

Sunny said:
On the contrary, imo, as ICE vehicles die off, a handful of truly niche ones that can stay in business should be able to charge even more. I think the ICE business model will be like the one off/very limited runs we see from Bugatti, Ferrari etc. I can see Ferrari doing a 250 GTO rerun of 10 charging 20 mill each!

DAMNIT Sunny, Bruce Wayne just paid Ferrari 500 mill last week for the ten !! And they said 100 mill is for the hush hush money alone, so I'm gonna need the name of the bloke who told you that. He is so dead

Sunny · Sep 23, 2020

TheNewBATMAN said:
DAMNIT Sunny, I just paid Ferrari 500 mill last week for the ten !! And they said 100 mill is for the hush hush money alone, so I'm gonna need the name of the bloke who told you that. He is so dead

Robin!

CrunchSlaughtered · Sep 23, 2020

Alain001 said:
You are absolutely right!

Stories like Theranos, WeWork, Juicero, Rimac, etc., where is due dilligence? I just can't understand it, maybe I have to "take the red pill", and face that the reality that, let's say 9% of all stuff is PR BS and lies?

He had everything when he was very young, he didn't know where to spend the money, and he and his father decided, hey, why don't we make electric car... Or to be more precise, buy parts, and pay other people to assemble them.

It's like Abramovic, when he get's bored, when he thinks what to do next, he had a football club (Chelsea F.C.), Rimac had a football club (Hajduk Split):

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/vijest...j-zatvoren-u-srbiji-optuzen-u-hrvatskoj-24967

Maybe the next idea from Abramovic will be to build electric car, maybe his next idea will be to put sharks in his swimming pool, who knows... Rimac didn't choose to put sharks in his pool, he decided to buy parts for electric car and pay others to assemble them...

What is very, very impressive? Concepts, built with bought parts?

Concept One is fast in the straight line, but all EV's are, Concept Two will probably be even faster...

11 years later, I think, or at least I hope he is finished with laundering... Although they are still conected to Franck Christian Kanayet Yepes and British Virgin Islands...

He is trying to leave a mark, we don't need to argue there. Also, I'm not saying they don't do anything, like i said, they are primarily software company. They also make battery packs (with battery cells from A123 Systems, and similar companies)...

Where and what cars did they beat? They beat some of them in the straight line drag racing. But there are faster EV's outh there (bear in mind Concept One is not homologated, and for Concept Two, they received millions from EU and Croatia for homologation, but the car is still not homologated):

http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html

Like I said, possible solution, they dump Bugatti (which Ferdinand Piech bought for about 50 million EUR), to Rimac, they will be the major owners, they have the platform (Concept Two which Rimac said that they sold all of the 150 examples right after showing the Concept 2 in 2018 in Geneva, what is another lie), they dump ICE engines, and rename Concept Two to Bugatti ...whatever, and with making Bugatti full BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle), they get rid of carbon taxes...

But there are also other EV supercar concepts, Lotus Evija, Tesla Roadster, Nio EP9, Aspark Owl, Dendrobium D-1, Drako GTE, Lucid Air, Hispano-Suiza Carmen Boulogne, Czinger 21C, Genovation GXE, Delage D12, Aria FXE...

I almost forgot, Pinninfarina Battista = Concept Two, similar story was with Concept One and Volar-E, where they took EU money for the same car, they just changed the body:

https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrv...-elektricni-bolid-i-uzeli-eu-milijune-1140617

Go and check the history of the Quants(BMW). There is a full movie about it- The silence of the Quants. All these are like angels compared to them.

klier · Sep 23, 2020

CrunchSlaughtered said:
Go and check the history of the Quants(BMW). There is a full movie about it- The silence of the Quants. All these are like angels compared to them.

Your hate towards BMW knows no boundaries. It's almost impressive.

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