Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[Emu]

While others on this forum have real world experience driving these cars extensively, lots of track experience on the Trofeo Rs and MPSC2, you dismiss their comments outright with your "internet facts". Have you driven the P1 or the 918? Do you have any real world experience on the track with either the Pirelli Corsa tires, MPSC2 or the Pirelli Trofeo R tires?

And for once, please answer my questions directly without deflecting it on new topics.

My 'internet facts' are based on firsthand testimony on the Laguna Seca telemetry from the owner of the P1 they used. Trofeo R I can't comment on firsthand, but I have firsthand experience of PZCS and MPSC2, and MPSC2 is a lot better.

This view is confirmed by lots of other tracks test with cars wearing different tyres. I've never seen a car wearing TRs out-performance the likes of the bespoke MPSC2s on the 458S on braking or cornering g. Sure different cars can influence things but the results are consistent and too big to be down to that.

 

[330CIZHP]

And the solid rear axle?

Sometimes in the limited time available when many cars are tested at once, as was the case in the aforementioned, the results just come out bizarrely. 1:40.45 is definitely very below par for any R35 GTR. In fact, I'd be surprised if an R34 GTR couldn't get beat that time. So you can't really use large tests where the driver has had only 3-5 laps in each car as absolute gospel proof.

What about the solid axle? Even a standard Ford Mustang GT 5.0 performed well against the E90/E92 M3 on the track. Ford had won many races with solid axle. The real downside to a live axle is, its adaptability over rapidly changing surface conditions (bumps, potholes etc.), which is irrelevant on the track.

Randy Pobst did 1:40 with the 2009 Nissan GTR and it seems exactly where it should be. The 997 Turbo S did about the same. With much better tires and significant overall improvements, the 2013 Nissan GTR did a 1:36. About a 4 seconds/lap improvement.


Randy Pobst impression of Boss 302:

On handling... "The way it comes off the second-gear hairpin, I cannot believe the way it hooks up. They musta had, like, John Force doing the drag racing setup, because I virtually couldn't knock it loose. I couldn't...I mean, I was...the first time I was real careful. I'm like "Yeah, I know what this thing's gonna do..." I get on the power, and it just drives off. I'm...wow. So the second time around...more. The third time around...more. And it just digs outta there. I'd love to know how they got it to hook up like that. It puts power down so well. Extremely well-balanced car. A joy to drive. Didn't even feel very crude, tell you the truth. Felt pretty well-balanced. A little bit of body roll, but stick. Lord have mercy, it's better than the Shelby GT500 we tested a while back. Handled better than a Porsche Cayman." On the transmission... "I did get a crunch on the 3-4 shift once, which was a little bit of a surprise."

On the brakes... "The brakes had had enough by the end of the second lap. They were hot and starting to fade for sure. But the braking was excellent. I didn't feel the kind of brake dive that we've complained about in Mustangs before." On the aerodynamics... "Hard to say if that front splitter is doing anything. It looks like it would do something. But it isn't very close to the ground, being a street car. And I would think that without a real wing, if that was really working, the car would be very pointy and very ass-y, and it's not. So my first guess would be to say no, it's not doing very much. But it sure looks like a real live race car splitter." On the engine... "That's a great-running engine. Big, fat power curve from the engine. It's making the same power from 5 rpm to 7500 rpm, it feels like to me." Overall... "Clearly better than any other Mustang I've driven. Great soundtrack, too. Just makes me want to put a couple of American flags on the hood like the old presidential limousines. They'd look just right on a Mustang. I'm just so impressed."

 

[Monster]

Please keep this discussion on topic thanks.

 

[Unotaz]

My 'internet facts' are based on firsthand testimony on the Laguna Seca telemetry from the owner of the P1 they used. Trofeo R I can't comment on firsthand, but I have firsthand experience of PZCS and MPSC2, and MPSC2 is a lot better.

This view is confirmed by lots of other tracks test with cars wearing different tyres. I've never seen a car wearing TRs out-performance the likes of the bespoke MPSC2s on the 458S on braking or cornering g. Sure different cars can influence things but the results are consistent and too big to be down to that.

So let me just reconfirm for the record. You have ZERO driving experience of the P1 or the 918? Well, that's pretty much case closed boys and girls. We have been arguing all this time with a person who has ZERO real world experience on these hypercars.

Also for the record, you are taking Treynor's statements (who doesn't own a 918), twisting them, and spinning off endless arguments with other 918/P1 owners online? You have both 918 and P1 owners telling you to shut the fu*k up, yet you continue blasting crap out of your mouth.

Keep it coming LMFAO! Oops....I mean EMU.........sorry, I mean MYCROFT.........oops.......I mean SROSE.

 

[Monster]

You have both 918 and P1 owners telling you to shut the fu*k up, yet you continue blasting crap out of your mouth.

Do you have links to those forum posts?

 

[Unotaz]

Do you have links to those forum posts?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/288gto-f40-f50-enzo-laferrari/388428-ferrari-f70-laferrari-vs-mclaren-p1-vs-porsche-918-a-805.html

MarkNC owns a P1 and told explicitly to EMU/MYCROFT/LMFAO/SROSE to shut the hell up! LOL

LMFAO - you can shut up as well. I don't see how you're helping McLaren's cause in any way. You're just getting more people to line up against them for no reason. The car is great. It drives like a dream. The 918 is also great. The LaFerrari is as well. Enough already!

 

[Bucketslash11]

Because it's effective marketing. And I believe that on GP tracks the P1 would be uncatchable to anything short of a LaFerrari and that's really the kind of track these cars were made for.


I saw what the P1 did at Anglesey Coastal and I know the 'ring has lots of high speed corners, I also know that the 918's HL mode doesn't last 7 minutes, so I'd be extremely illogical if I didn't believe a sub-7 minute claim. Whereas with the TR vs MPSC2 debate, I see lots of comparison tests where bespoke MPSC2s are beating TRs on lateral and braking g. So it would be extremely illogical to believe that every car fitted with TRs just handled really badly. The LS telemetry also shows the same situation. Therefore the CH test is confounded by other results.


Has the 458S beat a GT3 by a similar margin anywhere else?

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/porsche_911991_gt3-vs-ferrari_458_speciale.html



You have to admit, 4s looks pretty damn suspect.


Based on the above, maybe the 2s was just there for the taking in the first place, on either tyre.


Not really sure what point you're making here. A Mustang 302 LS beat the 2008 GTR there, so sometimes you just get funny results.


Yes but we know that the P1 is no UG Gallardo. It does handle, and handle well, otherwise it wouldn't be anywhere near a 918 on LS. Anglesey Coastal vs Laguna Seca is an indicator that faster tracks and faster corners favour the P1, so as we move to GP tracks and the 'ring, the P1 will become faster than the 918 based on that logic. I'm not being biased here, just using logic based on results and a knowledge of the two cars. You have to admit that when you can only pull 0.8s in a 918 despite three 40mph corners, no fast corners, one 40mph down a slope and a 35mph corner at the start of the main straight, it is pretty impressive that the P1 is even hanging on to the AWD 918. Plenty of lesser engineered RWD cars with the same PWR wouldn't.

1. unlike mclaren, porsche can ACTUALLY market their car as the fastest car on the ring as they have the proof that they are the fastest

again, why make claims and hype if you can live up to neither?

2. again you show that you believe everything they say, i can believe a sub-7, however that's as far as i can believe

and again the GT3 vs 458S just introduces more variables as both cars handles differently with different factors related to them (not even disproving my point)

3. the boss 302 LS was as its name applies developed at laguna seca, of course it will have a good result there

anyway, the veyron weights almost 2 tonnes coming towards the corkscrew at an estimated 200-250kph, first it has to slow down that mass then it has to battle the inertia in a quick roughly 90* angle only to quickly go into another roughly 90* in a slope

i just don't see all that mass doing that as quickly as other less powerful cars (which also weight less), @Monster being an engineer can do the calculations of kinetic energy and inertia

the point of the UG gallardo didn't come across the right way for you, let me explain it simpler:
you base your argument of laptime on the autocar dragrace and if the P1 has already beaten the 918 at the ring then they would publish it

 

[Emu]

1. unlike mclaren, porsche can ACTUALLY market their car as the fastest car on the ring as they have the proof that they are the fastest

again, why make claims and hype if you can live up to neither?

Some people live in shallow, make believe realities.

2. again you show that you believe everything they say, i can believe a sub-7, however that's as far as i can believe

and again the GT3 vs 458S just introduces more variables as both cars handles differently with different factors related to them (not even disproving my point)

Of course you can believ sub-7 minutes because it's obvious... even to complete dumbasses.

3. the boss 302 LS was as its name applies developed at laguna seca, of course it will have a good result there

anyway, the veyron weights almost 2 tonnes coming towards the corkscrew at an estimated 200-250kph, first it has to slow down that mass then it has to battle the inertia in a quick roughly 90* angle only to quickly go into another roughly 90* in a slope

i just don't see all that mass doing that as quickly as other less powerful cars (which also weight less), @Monster being an engineer can do the calculations of kinetic energy and inertia

the point of the UG gallardo didn't come across the right way for you, let me explain it simpler:
you base your argument of laptime on the autocar dragrace and if the P1 has already beaten the 918 at the ring then they would publish it

I'm sure the Veyron can lock all 4 at 200kph. I base the argument on the fact the P1 is a better car except for traction.

 

[Emu]

So let me just reconfirm for the record. You have ZERO driving experience of the P1 or the 918? Well, that's pretty much case closed boys and girls. We have been arguing all this time with a person who has ZERO real world experience on these hypercars.

Also for the record, you are taking Treynor's statements (who doesn't own a 918), twisting them, and spinning off endless arguments with other 918/P1 owners online? You have both 918 and P1 owners telling you to shut the fu*k up, yet you continue blasting crap out of your mouth.

Keep it coming LMFAO! Oops....I mean EMU.........sorry, I mean MYCROFT.........oops.......I mean SROSE.

I'm not twisting Treynor's statements at all, just quoting them exactly, whilst you bullshit to try save face. I'm sorry that your hypercar is depreciating I really am, but don't blame me. AWD hypercars are just never that well regarded amongst collectors.

 

[Emu]

What about the solid axle? Even a standard Ford Mustang GT 5.0 performed well against the E90/E92 M3 on the track. Ford had won many races with solid axle. The real downside to a live axle is, its adaptability over rapidly changing surface conditions (bumps, potholes etc.), which is irrelevant on the track.

Randy Pobst did 1:40 with the 2009 Nissan GTR and it seems exactly where it should be. The 997 Turbo S did about the same. With much better tires and significant overall improvements, the 2013 Nissan GTR did a 1:36. About a 4 seconds/lap improvement.


Randy Pobst impression of Boss 302:

Yeah... no. Easily 3s off where it should be. The 2013 GTR was never 4s better on merit.

 

[lbonu1967]

Are you for real here? Do you know how large a minute of a degree is? Basically, it could change by that much between the start and end of a few laps, hence why suspension geometry needs to be checked and reset fairly regularly.

As for Sport Auto times, huge pinch of salt. When someone gets the same time with a Gumpert Apollo S as a GT2 RS, their times are all but meaningless. Has there been a 650S supertest?

Avoid writing junk more than those written in recent months. Each car forum is full of your junk.
The tolerance of toe, camber king pin and caster are in minutes of degree. You are completely dunce on the subject. Angles don't change with weather at least you should measured at given standard (try on Wikipedia you may understand what I mean). I tracked my lotus per years and need a re-alignement just one time due to a close encounter with a pothole but on a open road.
And Sport Auto do all the measurement at the beginning of the test, 650s supertest included (search on the forum) and Porsche have no problems with alignment.

Huge pinch of salt what ?
You are the one the spammed internet sayings the 918 Spyder has better tires in comparison to the P1 basing in the 60mph-0 braking test done in TOP GEAR castelloli circuit.
Braking test is only mechanical grip you wrote, Just to defend a débâcle.
In the same test You justify P1 better peak of lateral G (2,15g vs 1,87g) because of P1 downforce rising tire grip at high speed, when castelloli has no high speed bend at all (140-150 Kmh)
Your biased reasoning fall completely when verifying 100mph-0 braking test where the huge downforce of the P1 (...lol ) should raise grip and improve braking perfomance, instead the gap with the Porsche 918 increase to more than five meters.
You negate that the 918 spyder and the GT3 have the same N0 spec of the PSC2 because CH demonstrate how the trofeo R improve lap time comparing to the bespoke michelin, forgetting how the 918 spyder is advanced for weight distribuition, suspension and powertrain.
As I wrote, the Carrera GT was in another level in 2003, reaching grip level with pilot sport N0 unmatched in tha period.

In TOP GEAR test, The P1 lateral G an braking test results are by far better than those of the 650S wearing both the same bespoke Pzero corsa MC1

As you see above and below your credibility is zero.

 

[kingjr9000]

Why is the 918's peak speed higher than the P1's?

 

[lbonu1967]

Pirelli did not develop any bespoke version of the TROFEO R for the P1.
The Trofero R is not an option for P1.
McLaren simply came back in Anglesey fitting on the P1 something that anyone can find at tire dealer. No MC/MC1 marking

They used the 305/30 with load index 103Y instead of the 315/30 (101Y) that is indicated on the registration document
Confirmed in McLaren forum .... Surprise no P1 bespoke tires.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/22577-trofeo-r-correct-sizing.html

1) They have used a tires that IS NOT an OEM option for the P1
2) The car cannot be used on open road unless ask for homolgation to road traffic office.

Any other comment ? Lol
At this point anyone can use an Hoosier R6 in the correct size and tire load
McLaren = Clowns

 

[lbonu1967]

Why is the 918's peak speed higher than the P1's?

Probably because the 918 powertrain and chassis permit to be back on the throttle sooner and carried more speed out.

 

[kingjr9000]

Probably because the 918 powertrain and chassis permit to be back on the throttle sooner and carried more speed out.

ok.

 

[ajjers]

Posted on Ferrarichat...

'Hi all!

I see that many people are trying to argue with MYCROFT/LMFAO, but I want to know that he is an old acquaintance of many people on the Internet.

Disputes with him are meaningless, because this man has never accepted foreign opinion and it is legendary.

Here are some historical facts about MYCROFT/LMFAO. Guess you will know his style

And just to know, not to loose your time...

FAO Mycroft - Subaru Enthusiast Forum - ScoobyNet.com

Mycroft is offically Full of Poop..... - Subaru Enthusiast Forum - ScoobyNet.com

Soarer cont'd from page 20 (12+8) - Page 7 - Subaru Enthusiast Forum - ScoobyNet.com

And many... many more.'

The guy obviously has a personality disorder.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

I have to say I'm learning a lot about tires!

 

[Unotaz]

I'm not twisting Treynor's statements at all, just quoting them exactly, whilst you bullshit to try save face. I'm sorry that your hypercar is depreciating I really am, but don't blame me. AWD hypercars are just never that well regarded amongst collectors.

LOL, so now we are moving onto the 918's collectability and market value?

Sure, I am saving face on my "depreciating" 918.....

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/2015/porsche/918/1050718

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/2015/porsche/918/1084697

http://www.ddwpartners.com/2015-Porsche-Arizona-85255/5393517

 

[Monster]

Fact is Mclaren couldn't sell their original production run of cars so they have to cut it back, and fabricated some poor excuses about customers wanting "more exclusivity"

Ferrari sold more LaFerrari than the Mclaren P1 in a shorter amount of time, at a higher base price. Not to mention these buyers need to have a collection of Ferrari already before they receive the invitation to purchase.

As for the 918, the value will increase once people realize they have underestimated the car all along, much like the Carrera GT.


I am now aware of Emu's history on other forums, and no I do not want the same thing to happen again on this forum.

Like I have said many pages ago, we have nothing new to add to this discussion so stop the BS.

 

[Mafalda]

Avoid writing junk more than those written in recent months. Each car forum is full of your junk.
The tolerance of toe, camber king pin and caster are in minutes of degree. You are completely dunce on the subject. Angles don't change with weather at least you should measured at given standard (try on Wikipedia you may understand what I mean). I tracked my lotus per years and need a re-alignement just one time due to a close encounter with a pothole but on a open road.
And Sport Auto do all the measurement at the beginning of the test, 650s supertest included (search on the forum) and Porsche have no problems with alignment.

Huge pinch of salt what ?
You are the one the spammed internet sayings the 918 Spyder has better tires in comparison to the P1 basing in the 60mph-0 braking test done in TOP GEAR castelloli circuit.
Braking test is only mechanical grip you wrote, Just to defend a débâcle.
In the same test You justify P1 better peak of lateral G (2,15g vs 1,87g) because of P1 downforce rising tire grip at high speed, when castelloli has no high speed bend at all (140-150 Kmh)
Your biased reasoning fall completely when verifying 100mph-0 braking test where the huge downforce of the P1 (...lol ) should raise grip and improve braking perfomance, instead the gap with the Porsche 918 increase to more than five meters.
You negate that the 918 spyder and the GT3 have the same N0 spec of the PSC2 because CH demonstrate how the trofeo R improve lap time comparing to the bespoke michelin, forgetting how the 918 spyder is advanced for weight distribuition, suspension and powertrain.
As I wrote, the Carrera GT was in another level in 2003, reaching grip level with pilot sport N0 unmatched in tha period.

In TOP GEAR test, The P1 lateral G an braking test results are by far better than those of the 650S wearing both the same bespoke Pzero corsa MC1

As you see above and below your credibility is zero.

About Carrera GT and the italian magazine Auto, that CGT was not official, but surely not customer specs: 0-200 9.25s and 1 km 19.42s @ 284 Kph! (AMuS: 10.7s and 20.4 @ 266 kph)