Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[boyko23]

If we're talking about the same stripes, there is apparently a difference between US and UK models according to something mentioned at McLife.

For which market are these stripes on this STANDARD car?

 

[Emu]

For which market are these stripes on this STANDARD car?

Strain gauges or static pressure gauges. What else would they be doing? About as useful to performance as a camera and laptop.

Ask the question on McLife if you like.

 

[ajjers]

If we're talking about the same stripes, there is apparently a difference between US and UK models according to something mentioned at McLife.

A non-standard roof is non-standard. Safety reasons? So a standard Spyder is not safe enough to do a sub-7 minute lap? What's new?

Driving.co.uk: How quick is it then? We know you’ve set a Nürburgring lap time but you’re not telling anyone. Porsche has set a 6m 57s time with your rival hybrid supercar, the 918 Spyder. And how does it compare with your other great rival, the Ferrari LaFerrari?

FS: With the P1 the challenge was to be able to take it to any track around the world, set a time and leave it up to the other guys to try and beat our time. We’re happy to challenge all-comers everywhere, except the Nürburgring.

Driving.co.uk: Why?

FS: A couple of reasons. The Nürburgring is not safe. It’s safer for race cars but road cars there in road car conditions where you’re not running slicks and roll bars, and they're running with a lot more weight than they should be running… you know you can stiffen the springs but then if you bottom out you can skate across the track at 200mph and wrap yourself around a tree. So it doesn't make sense. That’s our policy, anyway. We know what we’ve done at the Nürburgring, and everyone is waiting for a time for the P1. I personally know it…

http://www.driving.co.uk/features/mclaren/online-exclusive-q-a-with-frank-stephenson-mclaren-s-chief-designer/16363

So McLaren themselves announce that the Ring is too dangerous but you want criticise Porsche for using a fixed roof. Pathetic

If McLaren had posted an independently observed sub 7 minute lap only the most crazy nutcases would have accused them of using a non standard car. Just like only the most crazy nutcases accuse Porsche of using a non standard car. Evo were at invited to independently observe the P1's lap time, along with a helicopter and lots of recording equipment, but McLaren refused to tell them the time. Bizarre behavior if they had actually beaten the 918's time.

 

[Bucketslash11]

So far Porsche is the only hyper car maker that has been most bold and confident in their cars abilities that they let it get involved in any track comparison no matter what track with standard fit tyres and no technicians or mechanics to fiddle with the cars, knowing its car will be one of the best on any track. What the 918 has proved is that it is virtually as fast and faster on some tracks than the most hyped car, the P1 that it's makers have bragged will be the ultimate track car all this from a car with less aerodynamic downforce assistance systems and less power and more weight.

the mclaren P1: the HYPErcar king

 

[ajjers]

But that's all topic, my question to you Emu was what do you think of how McLaren handled the Ring situation? Would you not have preferred them to release the video if they had beaten the 918's time? Would you have preferred them to release the Ring video if they had been slower than the 918's time?

 

[Emu]

Driving.co.uk: How quick is it then? We know you’ve set a Nürburgring lap time but you’re not telling anyone. Porsche has set a 6m 57s time with your rival hybrid supercar, the 918 Spyder. And how does it compare with your other great rival, the Ferrari LaFerrari?

Heh, speculation. Meanwhile, a non-standard car is a non-standard car and a 1.2s defecit on Anglesey says it all really.

As regards 'ring times, it's always a shit-flinging competition. Everyone who sets a decent time is accused of cheating whether they did or not, so many do anyway.

 

[ajjers]

Heh, speculation. Meanwhile, a non-standard car is a non-standard car and a 1.2s defecit on Anglesey says it all really.

As regards 'ring times, it's always a shit-flinging competition. Everyone who sets a decent time is accused of cheating whether they did or not, so many do anyway.

Tests done on different days and different tyres don't make for fair comparisons as you know. But yes, the P1 on Trofeo's appears to be quicker than the 918 on MPSC2s, based on the data we have so far (and for the short duration of time that the Trofeo's lasted in that test).

There are fanboys who will deny the truth regardless of the evidence that is presented to them but most fair minded people accept the 918's Ring time and the others that have been posted over the years. It's not a definitive guide to performance but it's as meaningful in its own way as 0-60 time or top speed etc. The same fair minded people would accept the P1's time if it were independently observed, but yet we still wait. Of the list of excuses that McLaren offered when they refused to post their time 'nobody will believe us anyway' wasn't one of them.

 

[Emu]

1.2s is a big margin and unlikely to be due to conditions in the dry over a 1 minute lap.

The P1's downforce and straightline speed should pay dividends on the 'ring but meh who cares? I would personally love any one of the 3 hypercars and the fact that you know the 3 I mean, without mention, says a lot.

 

[kingjr9000]

As for the P1 GTR on full racing slicks, watch out 956! Maybe that's the real marketing surprise quietly going on in the background, who knows.

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Do you really think that the P1 GTR can really match a 956, which is a full-blown Le Mans racecar? The P1 GTR is virtually a GT3 car, with a bit of extra power, not a top tier Le Mans car. If that's true, then I have no clue why Mclaren didn't win this year in F1 if they had that kind of skill, or the year before that... or the year before that etc. There's a reason why the 956/962 are legendary.

 

[ajjers]

1.2s is a big margin and unlikely to be due to conditions in the dry over a 1 minute lap.

The P1's downforce and straightline speed should pay dividends on the 'ring but meh who cares? I would personally love any one of the 3 hypercars and the fact that you know the 3 I mean, without mention, says a lot.

I don't think anyone is disputing the awesomeness of these cars, except you do when you imply the 918 ring time should have some kind of asterisk next to it because they used a fixed roof.

The fact that a 918 can get anywhere near a P1 on the track is impressive enough for me, as the P1 was designed to be the fastest road car on any track in the world and the 918 certainly wasn't. AWD will almost certainly make the 918 faster on the road.

 

[ajjers]

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Haha, I completely skipped past that post.

Let's just review some of the BS claims made about the P1

1) "6 seconds a lap faster than the 12c gt3 car at Catalunya"
2) "6.3x at the Nurburgring" - both sets of claims put about across the internet by various McLaren "enthusiasts" with inside knowledge
3) "Pulls 5g's in corners" - a dodgy press release from Mclaren printed by Sutcliffe in Autocar, and considered reasonable by potential P1 owners. Later corrected to 2g!
4) "Feels as fast as anything I've driven, which includes an F1 car". More Sutcliffe nonsense
5) "The engine is as responsive as that of an F1 car" this time from chief test driver Chris Goodwin when being interviewed by Chris Harris.

And yet here we are and the P1 needs barely legal semi slicks to eek out an advantage over a fat piggy porsche, after being beaten on the tyres it was designed to use.

With this in mind you'd think the McLaren enthusiasts would play things down with the GTR but no, here we go. All aboard the hype train CHOO CHOO!

If the P1 GTR gets within 10s of Bellof's time I will get a Ron Dennis tattoo on my face.

 

[kingjr9000]

Haha, I completely skipped past that post.

Let's just review some of the BS claims made about the P1

1) "6 seconds a lap faster than the 12c gt3 car at Catalunya"
2) "6.3x at the Nurburgring" - both sets of claims put about across the internet by various McLaren "enthusiasts" with inside knowledge
3) "Pulls 5g's in corners" - a dodgy press release from Mclaren printed by Sutcliffe in Autocar, and considered reasonable by potential P1 owners. Later corrected to 2g!
4) "Feels as fast as anything I've driven, which includes an F1 car". More Sutcliffe nonsense
5) "The engine is as responsive as that of an F1 car" this time from chief test driver Chris Goodwin when being interviewed by Chris Harris.

And yet here we are and the P1 needs barely legal semi slicks to eek out an advantage over a fat piggy porsche, after being beaten on the tyres it was designed to use.

With this in mind you'd think the McLaren enthusiasts would play things down with the GTR but no, here we go. All aboard the hype train CHOO CHOO!

If the P1 GTR gets within 10s of Bellof's time I will get a Ron Dennis tattoo on my face.

In defense of the P1, only one of the claims MAY be true.

1: If the P1 can handle the corners like a GT3 12C and it also has more power than it, then it may be about 3-4 seconds faster. Unless this has already been proven false, if it has, then ignore this one.

4: "Feels", is the big word in this sentence. By acceleration times, the P1 is no where near as fast as an F1 car--heck, it's two seconds slower (by stats) than the Laferrari.

And 2,3, and 5:

 

[Monster]

4) "Feels as fast as anything I've driven, which includes an F1 car". More Sutcliffe nonsense

I doubt Sutcliffe has the skill to push the F1 car to the absolute limit.

 

[Mafalda]

Everyone always has issues when no video is released but McLaren did not set a precedent here. No one has ever seen the GT2 RS's 7:18 lap, or an Enzo or LaFerrari lap.

It's stands to reason that the P1 could be a lot faster there. It can probably put a second on the 918 just between the two bridges on the Dottinger Hohe. It's also likely to be very strong around the bend coming onto the main straight and Tiergarten to Hohenrain. Bergwerk to Klostertal 2 will also be very fast for the P1 and Quiddelbacher Hohe to Aremberg. Pflanzgarten and Anfarht Schwalbenschwanz will also be very fast in the P1. If it makes 1.2s on the 918 with Trofeo Rs on Anglesey Coastal, it's going to be deadly on the 'ring in the right hands.

As for the P1 GTR on full racing slicks, watch out 956! Maybe that's even the real marketing play here.

Enzo 7.25 by evo (Marc Basseng) despite tech trouble)

 

[Emu]

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Think about this, the 956 record was set in 1983, the 918 has already gone 10s faster than the Formula 1 lap record set in 1976. Progress!

What time did a Zonda R run relative to a Zonda F CS? Think about it, the Zonda R is only 24s off 956 race lap pace and there's a faster version of that now. P1 road cars on Trofeos are probably putting down 6:4X. Add full racing slicks on a wider body and a race aero package and suspension and diff pus extra power and that will lop off serious time.

 

[Emu]

I don't think anyone is disputing the awesomeness of these cars, except you do when you imply the 918 ring time should have some kind of asterisk next to it because they used a fixed roof.

The fact that a 918 can get anywhere near a P1 on the track is impressive enough for me, as the P1 was designed to be the fastest road car on any track in the world and the 918 certainly wasn't. AWD will almost certainly make the 918 faster on the road.

Heh, well it's marvelous that Boyko mentions strip gauges as cheating on the P1 but you don't think a more aerodynamic, lightweight roof that lowers CoG and slightly reduces height is cheating.

The 918 probably will be faster on the road round bends if anyone is prepared to really push, except if it's wet. But mostly people will just do highway pulls on the street and the P1 will win.

 

[Emu]

Enzo 7.25 by evo (Marc Basseng) despite tech trouble)

Tech trouble? Don't tell me the Ferrari mechanics turned up again?

 

[boyko23]

Heh, well it's marvelous that Boyko mentions strip gauges as cheating on the P1 but you don't think a more aerodynamic, lightweight roof that lowers CoG and slightly reduces height is cheating.

No.
As we said several times, this 918 was one of the first protos. It has nothing to do with the final spec (the last is much, much better... )
Even the aero wasn't working properly in this attempt (wasn't in its final spec). And finally, Porsche invited independent observers for the whole day. After that put the car in the museum and everybody can see, who is cheating...

Btw, where is the P1 Ringer, just curious...

In that respect, do you see something strange in this picture? You have a bottle of 18 years whiskey for the right answer...

 

[Emu]

No.

Dude, don't make pathetic excuses for the 918. The production 918 isn't faster at all. It was 16s off the 6:57 time when Sport Auto timed it, whereas other cars, even those accused of cheating, were only 12s off when Sport Auto timed the production models.

The P1? How do you think these strips were cheating exactly?

For the sake of argument let's assume these strips are a cheat, let me make 2 observations which make that theory stupid.

1) Given that the edited video clip doesn't show the timed lap, why wouldn't they simply remove the strips and do the video without them?

2) It would be a really dumb cheat. Given that it's a turbocharged car, the easier, less observable and more effective cheat is race gas and/or nudging up boost a few psi.

Next you'll be telling me that E-stop is a NAWZ button.

 

[boyko23]

Dude, don't make pathetic excuses for the 918. The production 918 isn't faster at all. It was 16s off the 6:57 time when Sport Auto timed it, whereas other cars, even those accused of cheating, were only 12s off when Sport Auto timed the production models.

It's clear, you have almost zero knowledge about the 918...
Nevertheless, the 918 doesn't need any excuses. It IS the Ring record holder, verified by reputable observers. It IS the record holder on all the tracks, it visited in 2014. Enough said...
If you are interested, read the SA remarks from HVS, I don't have time to loose...

Regarding the picture - sorry, I will have to drink the whole bottle.
Look at the next one. Am I the only one, who see a nice lightweight piece of carbon cover, instead of navigation system? Very Lightweight...