Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[Mafalda]

About LaFe and the "true" weight 1,675 Kgs with driver and just half tank, I cannot belive it: it means the very same kerb weight of a 918 without WP. LaFe has bigger ICE, but we know Porsche has one more EE, much more batteries, 4WD, less CF, more gadgets, more electronics ext ext ext,,,,

 

[Mafalda]

And MPSC2 will be available for the 650S and P1.

ok, I reallly think MPSC2 are extremer than PZCS, but PZCS =/= TrofeoR....

 

[Emu]

Postsenseless
All these babblings about older tyres just to cover a clear P1 debacle, beaten by a Porsche cabrio without any supporter crew.
The Trofeo R is a motorsport tires. Full stop
It’s enough to see the Balocco lap time chart where Auto magazine test the cars. This is an Alfa Romeo proving ground called ‘the little nurburgring’
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/balocco.html
Two lambos set the fastest time both with with Pzero Trofeo R and by seconds over Others car equippend with corsa and Sport cup

Sroser / Mycroft / Emu
We have internet too
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/gt3-gt2-gt/286155-trofeo-r-vs-pilot-sport-cup-vs-r888.html
I know people than run Trofeo and they are faster than all other street R-Comps except Hoosier R6 but are reported to only be about 1-2 seconds off a Hoosier R6.
http://www.planet-9.com/porsche-tires-wheels/73098-best-r-compound-dual-purpose-tire-track-street.html
Guys I know running Trofeo's run several seconds a lap quicker on a 2m20s lap, compared to the Cups, however the lifetime is super short!

Luque

Sroser, Mycroft?

Funny because the Trofeo R only proved 1s quicker for the Squadra Corsa (Trofeo R)over the time set by the older Superleggera (PZCS) on Hockenheim Short.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim_short.html

So more internet babblings posted as evidence in place of real testing. Sorry but in real independent tests, Trofeo R has never proven massively better than MPSC2 and MPSC2 is certainly way better than PZCS, which isn't even as good as MPSC+ but lasts longer and is far better in the wet.

 

[Emu]

About LaFe and the "true" weight 1,675 Kgs with driver and just half tank, I cannot belive it: it means the very same kerb weight of a 918 without WP. LaFe has bigger ICE, but we know Porsche has one more EE, much more batteries, 4WD, less CF, more gadgets, more electronics ext ext ext,,,,

918 weight is without driver but a V12 weighs a lot, as does the KERS, so naturally a LaF was never going to be 100+kg lighter than a P1. That was an outright lie.

 

[Emu]

ok, I reallly think MPSC2 are extremer than PZCS, but PZCS =/= TrofeoR....

Obviously, I agree.

 

[Mafalda]

When ferrari send the 458S to Vairano (quattroruote) tehy said "we can barke the lap recod (Gallardo SC) if on teh very same tires"...
Italian magazines, QR and Auto too, consider the TrofeoR much more extremer than Pirelli PZCS and MPSC2
Just wath the hotlaps... of an "old" Gallardo compared vs the modern supercars...
Vairano

. Porsche 918 Spyder 1:09.54 '13 887 / 1640
2. Lamborghini Huracan LP 610-4 1:11.79 '14 610 / 1422 TrofeoR
3. Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Squadra Corse 1:11.85 '13 570 / TrofeoR
4. McLaren 650 S 1:12.29 '14 650 / 1428 Davide Fugazza
5. Ferrari 458 Speciale 1:12.45 '13 605 / 1290
6. Ferrari 458 Speciale 1:12.49 '13 605 / 1290 Davide Fugazza
7. McLaren MP4-12C Spider 1:12.92 '12 625 / 1453
8. Radical SR3 SL (Road-legal version) 1:12.98 '12 243 / 765
9. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:13.86 '11 700 / 1575
10. Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 1:14.08 '12 740 / 1725
11. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 1:14.28 '10 570 / 1430

Balocco
1. Lamborghini Huracan LP 610-4 2:40.07 '14 610 / 1422 TrofeoR
2. Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Squadra Corse 2:40.78 '13 570 / 1430 TrofeoR
3. Porsche Carrera GT 2:42.62 '03 612 / 1380
4. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 2:42.91 '11 700 / 1575
5. Porsche 911 GT3 2:43.22 '13 476 / 1425
6. McLaren MP4-12C 2:43.46 '10 600 / 1434 Luigi Moccia
7. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 2:43.51 '09 670 / 1664
8. Porsche 911 GT2 2:43.56 '07 530 / 1440
9. Ferrari 458 Italia 2:43.90 '09 570 / 1485
10. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 2:43.99 '10 570 / 1430

 

[Emu]

The Lamborghinis are faster than people credit them for. Both these times (see below) involved the Huracan on Trofeo R. Sachsenring favours AWD and the Huracan ran in 12degC warmer conditions. Does that mean the Huracan would be 3s slower at the same temp. with the same tyres? I doubt it would be 3s slower even with PZCS vs MPSC2.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_speciale-vs-lamborghini_huracn_lp_610-4.html

 

[Rolf]

918 weight is without driver but a V12 weighs a lot, as does the KERS, so naturally a LaF was never going to be 100+kg lighter than a P1. That was an outright lie.

Totally agree with the V12 engine will add consireable weight compared to the engines in the 918 and P1. Porsche has stated that the 918 engine is very light (it weighs 140kg which is the same as many 2.0ltr 4cylinder engines) and the V12 in LaFerrari will be at least 100kg heavier than this (the Mercedes M275 V12 which is a light weight engine of its size weighs about 230-240kg).I reckon the 918 will probably drop 100kg or more if it only had RWD and one electric motor.

 

[ajjers]

1) Completely false. Everyone has said the 918 seating is too upright and the LaFerrari is too inclined. Seats that are too inclined will cause neck strain after prolonged driving.

2) See 1).

3) He hasn't driven it for any great length of time. When he does he'll find the 'better driving position' of the P1 has more of an impact on comfort than the seat itself.

4) Here's some simple algebra. If b > a and c = b + (2.4 x 0.6) and d = a + 1.4, then d != c +2.

a = PZCS
b = MPSC+
c = MPSC2
d = Trofeo R

1) Name me one person who has said the seating position in the Laferrari is too inclined. One person who has actually sat in the car. The fact that you have thus far been referencing Jay Leno, who hasn't even sat in the Laferrari, just shows how badly you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

2) ROFL

3) Impressive psychic powers you have. Perhaps you should be fighting crime somewhere rather than wasting time spamming multiple car forums.

4) The problem will always be you haven't got anyone testing the MSPC2s and the Trofeos on the same car. Except you have but you won't accept their findings because it doesn't fit in with your preconceived conclusions.

 

[Emu]

Totally agree with the V12 engine will add consireable weight compared to the engines in the 918 and P1. Porsche has stated that the 918 engine is very light (it weighs 140kg which is the same as many 2.0ltr 4cylinder engines) and the V12 in LaFerrari will be at least 100kg heavier than this (the Mercedes M275 V12 which is a light weight engine of its size weighs about 230-240kg).I reckon the 918 will probably drop 100kg or more if it only had RWD and one electric motor.

According to this the M838T weighs 199kg for the sake of comparison.

McLaren M838T engine - Wikipedia
The McLaren MP4-12C Engine and Transmission

 

[Emu]

1) Name me one person who has said the seating position in the Laferrari is too inclined. One person who has actually sat in the car. The fact that you have thus far been referencing Jay Leno, who hasn't even sat in the Laferrari, just shows how badly you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

2) ROFL

3) Impressive psychic powers you have. Perhaps you should be fighting crime somewhere rather than wasting time spamming multiple car forums.

4) The problem will always be you haven't got anyone testing the MSPC2s and the Trofeos on the same car. Except you have but you won't accept their findings because it doesn't fit in with your preconceived conclusions.

1) The guy you're quoting on McLife says so for a start.

"Despite the seats being screwed to the chassis they still felt perfectly supportive and the driving position & outward visibility are miles better than 918 although not quite a good as P1."

It mentions relative inclines of all 3 in this video:

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He says the P1 driving position is better. There's a good reason why everyone isn't inclining their seat to lower CoG and reduce height, and driving posture is it. I've read many others but I'm not wasting my time browsing over the web to find them. It's not rocket science - more inclined seat = more bent neck when looking ahead. The P1's driving position has been widely praised everywhere:

McLaren P1 (2014) review
McLaren P1 2014-2015 interior | Autocar

Furthermore, tall people actually fit in P1s, 650Ss and 12Cs

2) See 1).

3) It's only after you drive a car for 100 miles that you get to know about the importance of driving posture.

4) No but if PZCS is worse than MPSC+ and MPSC2 is a lot better than MPSC+ (by 1.4-1.5s) and Trofeo R only gave 1.4s over PZCS, that's gives a pretty good substitute for a head-to-head test. I don't accept internet rumours and hearsay as evidence. That's just good sense.

 

[Emu]

Anyway here's some light relief from the bickering.

we were going past cars that were doing 160 mph like they were parked, yes.. as regards whether the car was unstable or not, no not at all.. as with my limited aero car experience, faster feels more stable

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[Emu]

P1 at Sebring

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[boyko23]

Emu,
arguing with people who WHERE there and HELD the P1vs918 test is just.... PATHETIC. But, it's great fun to read your desperate posts.
I salute you with the above link:

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1. 
   
   
   
   Jethro Bovingdon ‏@JethroBovingdon Nov 17
   Glad the 918 v P1 has gone down so well. Re the great tyre debate. I'd say Cup 2/Corsas are pretty much equivalents. Trofeos more extreme.
   
   William ‏@wedoug Nov 17
2. @JethroBovingdon Why so few laps out of the Trofeos? People seem to get at least a track day out of a set. 5 laps/5 minutes seems very low..
3. 
   
4. 
   
   thro Bovingdon ‏@JethroBovingdon Nov 18
   @wedoug Unique compound, 903bhp, 600kg downforce... Adds up. I'm sure you'd get more laps than that but optimum grip is short lived.
   
   
5. 
   
   
   William ‏@wedoug Nov 18
   @JethroBovingdon Did you experience a severe taper in performance before/after, or more like 5 laps @ 1:11.x and 5 before/after @ 1:12-1:13?
   
   
   
6. 
   
   
   
   Jethro Bovingdon ‏@JethroBovingdon Nov 18
   @wedoug 1.11.2 on 2nd lap then it went back to 1.11.6s, then slower. Adjusted pressures, went back to 1.11.6s but then tapered off again.
   
   
7. 
   
   
   
   
   
   Pedro Solis Chávez ‏@PedroSolisCH Nov 18
   @JethroBovingdon With the 918 no changing tires, Best time possible? 1:11range as well? Come on jethro.. Finally which is fastest? Sametire*
   
   
   
8. 
   Jethro Bovingdon ‏@JethroBovingdon Nov 18
   @PedroSolisCH I don't know. Trofeo is developed for P1 but very aggressive. A similar tyre on 918 would probably prove similar time saving.
   
   
   
9. 
   
   
   Pedro Solis Chávez ‏@PedroSolisCH Nov 18
   @JethroBovingdon Why media cannot say that the 918 is faster on track? Why only the 0,2gap and not the definitive lap..Its a bit unfair? No?
   
   
   
10. 
    
    
    
    Jethro Bovingdon ‏@JethroBovingdon Nov 18
    @PedroSolisCH We did. That was the gap. Get over it. The Porsche wins, be happy.
    
    
    
11. 
    
    
    
    Pedro Solis Chávez ‏@PedroSolisCH Nov 18
    @JethroBovingdon Not happy because the result is not defined. You say the 918 could lap better times with more laps and tire pressure--->
    
    

Jethro Bovingdon‏@JethroBovingdon
@PedroSolisCH You heard what I said. I prefer the Porsche. P1 more suited to track, just. But not quicker except on sticky tyres.

 

[Emu]

Emu,
arguing with people who WHERE there and HELD the P1vs918 test is just.... PATHETIC. But, it's great fun to read your desperate posts.
I salute you with the above link:

The thing is he also says the MPSC2s are stickier than PZCS at 7:24 in the video. And I've never seen anyone even say that old MPSC+s have less grip than PZCS and we have clear evidence that MPSC2s are faster than MPSC+s.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup-2-Launched.htm

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Basically Jethro is, in my opinion, an asshat. He conducted a test without putting the roof on the 918, said the 918 was on stickier tyres and then calls a whisker like 0.2s being faster, especially when the 918 ran second after the rubber had been laid down on the track and the track temp was raised. Is your driving really even that perfect Jethro? Sure didn't look it.

Then he makes excuses about not having done more laps. Why the hell didn't you then Jethro? You're the goddamn tester here. Why didn't you put the roof on? Why didn't you do more laps in the 918? Next time how about you just test both the cars properly Jethro instead of pumping out the drivel of uncertainty and leaving these convoluted, never-ending discussions about a test that you screwed up.

10 points for this guy:

• 
  
  
  • 11.
    
    
    
    Pedro Solis Chávez ‏@PedroSolisCH Nov 18
    @JethroBovingdon Not happy because the result is not defined. You say the 918 could lap better times with more laps and tire pressure--->

Basically the typical Evo Porsche bias is also present in many of JB's comments.

"@PedroSolisCH I don't know. Trofeo is developed for P1 but very aggressive. A similar tyre on 918 would probably prove similar time saving."

Really, can you prove that? You've said the MPSC2 is stickier than PZCS in your video Jethro, so why are you now saying a similar tyre will yield a similar improvement, when it can't because MPSC2 is stickier than PZCS as you said earlier. Surely an AWD vehicle with a lower PWR would be less traction restricted on lesser rubber? If I do a quarter mile in a Subaru WRX and a Venom GT on summer tyres, and then replace the tyres on each vehicles with Mickey Thompsons or Hoosiers, guess which one will show the biggest improvement.

Seems like you've also failed to mention that the Trofeo R P1 lap was done on the second lap using one set of tyres Jethro. Do you not think that maybe a second run after a cool down, or on a second set of tyres could yield a better time for the P1 too?

Basically Jethro, from what you post and your 'assumptions', I can only label you a biased, self-contradicting lunatic.

*Note these comments are not directed at anyone here. Yes Jethro was there and that's precisely why he shouldn't be using factors that he had the ability to change as excuses.

 

[martinbo]

Well, there's only one thing for it then, @Emu...

You can put yourself in circumstances comparable to those in which that lunatic Bovingdon found himself in and show us how it's really done.

 

[kingjr9000]

Well I'm just found out that the Laferrari's GVWR is 3900lbs+ or 1769kg, so do with that what you will.

 

[Rolf]

Well I'm just found out that the Laferrari's GVWR is 3900lbs+ or 1769kg, so do with that what you will.

Does this include for driver and passenger weight as well as some baggage?

 

[ajjers]

Well I'm just found out that the Laferrari's GVWR is 3900lbs+ or 1769kg, so do with that what you will.

I saw that posted on ferrarichat, that's the maximum load weight which you find on the inside of the door frame. Not the actual weight of the Laferrari. The owners manual says 1470kg with lightweight options.

 

[ajjers]

Does this include for driver and passenger weight as well as some baggage?

It's the maximum weight the chassis can safely tolerate for loading purposes. Not the actual weight of the car.