Porsche 918 Spyder Concept

[Sunny]

Sorry for OT, but Soup (or anyone else) do you mind scanning the 2007 911 GT3 RS buying guide from this mag? I have the non-RS buying guide if anyone is interested.

TIA

 

[EnI]

Porsche’s green supercar is now available to order, priced from £565,000 plus VAT

So, $919,370 (€648,675) without taxes. WOW!

Compared to that BMW i8 with predicted sticker price of $200k - $250k sounds like a super affordable car for masses.

 

[Soup]

 

[Centurion]

Gulp

 

[LaArtist]

Freakin hell i need 800K right now.. this is stupid.. they gonna do it again!!! like the cgt..god

 

[7saen]

Porsche is on fire with their latest design. so much form quality.
Now I really want to see what the next Panamera will look like. I guess the Rapide won't stand a chance!

 

[SKY]

Porsche is on fire with their latest design. so much form quality.
Now I really want to see what the next Panamera will look like. I guess the Rapide won't stand a chance!

When is the new Panny comming?.

 

[7saen]

I don't know. 2015?

 

[donkeykong]

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[Soup]

Confirmed by a member from RT

- Power is now at a minimum of 800 hp combined
- Quicker than a GT2RS in the Nordschleife but using half the fuel
- Torque. 400 Nm at 0 rpm (The new 991S has 420 Nm at over 5000 rpm, and the 918 at 0)
- 0 to 100 in less than 3 secs
- 0 to 200 kmh less than 9 secs
- Top speed of 320 kmh~

 

[Centurion]

One thing I have failed to understand is the wide spread hostility towards hybrids here on GCF. If you look beyond the Prius which is an awful poster boy for the electro-petrol future ahead of us, there are some amazing benefits to hybrid drive trains. They are the future to keeping NA engines on the market, i.e electric motors replacing turbo and super chargers. Hopefully Porsche will answer my prayers by demonstrating what you can achieve with mild hybrids. Two electric motors paired with a 4.6l NA engine will open up doors to some very clever engine mapping and interplay between the engine and motors.

With the Panamera and 991 Porsche are showing that they are intent on throwing Newtons laws of the road. The 991 exhibit very little or hardly any body roll. My prediction is that the 918 could offer a "shift-less" experience. Although the PDK is fast. It still takes a few milli seconds for the gear change to happen and for the crank shaft to spool up to it's optimal power range. What I envision is that when the driver pulls a level for engage a higher gear change, the electronic motors instantly engage and power the car until the the gear has changed and the engine rpm is back into the optional range. As the engine revs faster the electric motors proportionately wind down their power.

In this way, the driving experience can be near jerk-free as the electric motors take over whenever the engine and gearbox are engaging and disengaging. The experience would be almost like having no-gears as the engine and motors substituting drive with result in acceleration that is usually momentarily interrupted by gear changes. Best of all is that the electric motors can intervene when a driver is in a gear that's too high and sensing the angle of the accelerator pedal the ECU can understand how fast the driver wants to drive and subsequently kick the electric motors with power proportionate to what would have been expected if the engine would have been in the right gear.


So there are quite some scope for Porsche to innovate and change the behaviour we expect of a sports car.




Porsche 918
Hybrid engine
Spyder with hand removable hardtop, can be stored in front trunk
Petrol engine and electric motor
E-boost
Left hand drive only
V8 4.6-litre petrol engine
550hp
2 eletric motors on front and back axle with a total out put of 230hp
Total hp : 740+ hp
Euro 5, ULEV II compliant
Water cooled lithium battery
7-speed PDK
PTV plus to the rear wheels and electric front wheels
PASM
Single nut wheel design
Front 20", Rear 21"
PCCB
PSM
CFRP monocoque
Dash with black panel
TFT display
Nurburgring time lower than 7:22
0-100km lower than 3.0 seconds
0-200km lower than 9 seconds
0-300km lower than 30 seconds
Top speed over 320km
Battery only top speed over 150km
Fuel consumption 3-Litre / 100km
Battery only cruise range: over 25km
CO2 output 70g / km
DIN dry weight 1675 kg
Length 4643mm
Width 1940mm
Height 1167mm
Wheelbase 2730mm
US$650-700k (in the US)

 

[Monster]

With the Panamera and 991 Porsche are showing that they are intent on throwing Newtons laws of the road. The 991 exhibit very little or hardly any body roll. My prediction is that the 918 could offer a "shift-less" experience. Although the PDK is fast. It still takes a few milli seconds for the gear change to happen and for the crank shaft to spool up to it's optimal power range. What I envision is that when the driver pulls a level for engage a higher gear change, the electronic motors instantly engage and power the car until the the gear has changed and the engine rpm is back into the optional range. As the engine revs faster the electric motors proportionately wind down their power.

Ferrari is also on the same path of development, their concept 599 hybrid has the same function as you mentioned.

 

[klier]

One thing I have failed to understand is the wide spread hostility towards hybrids here on GCF.

Depends on what kind of hybrid.

918 Spyder? No hostility.
i3 and i8? No hostility.

535i Hybrid? Hostility. It adds a lot of weight. Adds a lot of money. Will be crazy expensive to repair. Is not more economical than a 530d/535d. Nor is it faster.
And the same counts for every other regular production family car that is not designed to have a hybrid system for every single car.

In short, the 918 and i3/i8 are designed around the batteries and are an integral part of the car. On most other cars the hybrid part is added to a regular 'old school' combustion engine layout...

 

[Centurion]

Ferrari is also on the same path of development, their concept 599 hybrid has the same function as you mentioned.

The 559 Hybrid is certainly an innovative sports car on hybrid frontier. The way it slows down the wheels individually by letting the batteries harness any excess traction instead of letting the brakes do the work, is absolutely brilliant. Not only is it environmentally friendly but also saves brake wear. Regenerating power from the engine instead of letting the brake pads absorb it by fading is key. The combustion engine's efficieny is already low as it is and whatever ways can be found to harness any excess heat or power should be explored.

Although the Ferrari has efficient ways of harnessing power, the deployment of it is very one dimensional. It's all KERS. Straight line performance for acceleration or overtaking whenever the driver pushes the KERS button. What I think Porsche will do is create an interplay between the petrol engine and electronic motors so that they work together across the engine power band and all speeds to give the driver best of both worlds: gear-less experience, electric motor assist when in the wrong gear and linear acceleration whenever the driver asks for it.

 

[klier]

DIN dry weight 1675 kg

This is a downside of hybrid cars. With a regular petrol engine the car would weigh like 1400 kg DIN, max.

1675 kg DIN is like 1750 kg EU. A Carrera GT weighs around 1380 kg, maybe 1300 kg DIN.....

 

[Centurion]

This is a downside of hybrid cars. With a regular petrol engine the car would weigh like 1400 kg DIN, max.

1675 kg DIN is like 1750 kg EU. A Carrera GT weighs around 1380 kg, maybe 1300 kg DIN.....

Yeah the weight is a slap on the left butt cheek. The figure is rather offensive. The biggest penalty is off course the batteries and all their cooling. If the Panamera is anything to go by we now live in an electro-physical era so the "heaviness" of a 1675kg will be taken care of by electronic to the point that one won't even think about "weight". But it is a bit sad to think that we've seen the last of the ballerinas like the CGT which are NA and light weight.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Depends on what kind of hybrid.

918 Spyder? No hostility.
i3 and i8? No hostility.

535i Hybrid? Hostility. It adds a lot of weight. Adds a lot of money. Will be crazy expensive to repair. Is not more economical than a 530d/535d. Nor is it faster.
And the same counts for every other regular production family car that is not designed to have a hybrid system for every single car.

In short, the 918 and i3/i8 are designed around the batteries and are an integral part of the car. On most other cars the hybrid part is added to a regular 'old school' combustion engine layout...

Klier definitely brings up valid points. If a car is designed from the get-go with some hybrid propulsion, the chances are it'll be engineered in a way to keep weight in check and not negate the efficiencies.

But my main issues with hybrid propulsions and electric cars...
-with hybrid cars, cars need to driven conservatively driven all the time to attain the efficiencies that are claimed by both the manufacturer and regulatory agency. These cars, like any other car, are rarely driven like that, thus adding weight and complexity, which, in turn, drives up the cost of purchase and ownership. To me, that diminishes the return somewhat.
-I question the procurement of raw materials for batteries and the eventual transportation, processing, and the efficiencies behind that. Also I question the environemental impact each process has and the trade-off when one uses an electric car or hybrid. For example, mining for lithium is done in South America and then transported to Japan, China, etc. for processing with toxic chemicals to produce batteries and other components. These parts are then shipped around the world. Now what's the trade off from the impact of all those steps and other steps that I'm certain I'm missing.
- from an enthusiast's point of view (which could be deemed inconsiquential and anachronistic from an environemental perspective) it adulterates the purity of a good ol' ICE.

Electric cars and hybridaization may prove to be a stop-gap since the long-term effects are not well-understood.

PS: Sorry bout the terrible grammar/spelling errors....it's late here (2:20 am) and the marthinis aren't helping right now

 

[klier]

Yeah the weight is a slap on the left butt cheek. The figure is rather offensive. The biggest penalty is off course the batteries and all their cooling. If the Panamera is anything to go by we now live in an electro-physical era so the "heaviness" of a 1675kg will be taken care of by electronic to the point that one won't even think about "weight". But it is a bit sad to think that we've seen the last of the ballerinas like the CGT which are NA and light weight.

But the thing is that weight cannot be hidden. You will feel it in a corner no matter what electronic gadged they invent...

 

[Levi68]

+1

The good side with hybrid is that you can keep H/R NA engines, like for example 918 Spyder, NSX MkII (if it comes),... The i8 however has a much smaller and turbocharged engine, but is rather a sportscar than a supercar, it also has four seats. And concerning the weight, the i8 seems to be the lightest at 1400 kg dry. However this could change until production, it could get heavier.

The downside of it is still the hybrid adds aot of weight, so a hybrid car and only be built from scratch as a hybrid, cannot be based on a normal car.


To see whether hybrid is really worth, in terms of performance, we should compare let us say a 918 Spyder against a 918 Spyder with all hybrid hardware deleted. Just this would shave off some 300 kg. And maybe without hybrid it will be slower on straight line and have no "turbo low range toruqe" but should feel better without the added weight.

I think I'd still prefere a 550 PS, 1375 kg 918 Spyder than a 740 PS, 1675 kg 918 Spyder Hybrid.

PS: Is it going to be a 3,4l V8 or a 4,6l V8?

 

[Kowalski]

Go James! Kick his ass!