NarutoRamen
Kraftwagen König
- Messages
- 11,001
...As far as the C63, it doesnt have an MT, therefore it is disqualified IMO.
Not an issue for AMG customers. Plus the auto unit has a manual mode.
Vs Ohh snap Audi vs BMW: 1-0
- Thread starter LaArtist
- Start date
Not an issue for AMG customers. Plus the auto unit has a manual mode.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
- Messages
- 30,822
Yeah but by all accounts the new M3 is better than the E46 CS model. Stop your madness, if given a change to test drive one you take it, I'm pretty damn sure it won't disappoint. I believe the poor reviews are because of the much improved C63! Mercedes crushed the C55 with there new model, where BMW merely improved the M3 imo.
C63 has nothing to do with it. BMW has messed up the new M3, its not what it used to be, thats were the problem is.
Its more mainstream and not a precise instrument as M3 E46 to drive, all reviews I read so far says the same thing.
Worst part to read are the steering complaints, nonone accused the M5 E60 to have bad steering feel but 9/10 reviews like the steering in M3 E46 over M3 V8.
RikfromBelgium
Das Beste Enthusiast
- Messages
- 1,761
i'm getting tired of you
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
- Messages
- 30,822
when I praise BMW you are with me, when I complain you get tired .
I have supported BMW for many years but when I get disappointed you will know about it. Im not going to swallow everything bmw does and pretend its alright.
warot
Track Technician
- Messages
- 3,750
Yea but throwing "M3 sucks" and these kinds of things isn't exactly a good thing to do as well when the only thing we know is a first day drive. Why is there so much drama over this M3 when nothing is that concrete yet? That's my view anyway.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
- Messages
- 30,822
I seen two comparisons so far between M3 and RS4, I have read like 10 reviews so far and it hasnt been a pleasent read. If you want to be the best then its not a very good start for BMW. How much beating can you take?
NarutoRamen
Kraftwagen König
- Messages
- 11,001
Just_Me...I bet you that within 1 years time, everyone will be praising the M3. By the time the Next M3 comes along this one will be hailed as the best one...I guarantee it.
Initial reviews suck. Plus steering feel is more of a personal thing. 1 guy feels it, the other guy doesn't, world still turns. simple.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
- Messages
- 30,822
Just_Me...I bet you that within 1 years time, everyone will be praising the M3. By the time the Next M3 comes along this one will be hailed as the best one...I guarantee it.
I hope you are right.
Even if its personal, the complaints on the steering shouldnt be so many. Funny things both comparisons claim RS4 has better steering feel than new M3. I cant remember last time I heard a Audi having better steering
PanterroR
Lap Time Luminary
- Messages
- 21,864
The same $h!t was told when Active Steering debuted, many were complaining about it how it's softer and unusual for BMW cars. And now people bitch how BMW killed the steering feeling with AS or this Servotronic or whatever is called.
I guess that's too much for them since they obviously can't handle it.
Cars are improving, becoming more high tech, it has been almost 10 years since they were testing E46, you know how far tech has gone in 10 years and what did you expect? The same feeling as E46 just a different body and stronger engine? You don't know $h!t!
I guess that's too much for them since they obviously can't handle it.
Cars are improving, becoming more high tech, it has been almost 10 years since they were testing E46, you know how far tech has gone in 10 years and what did you expect? The same feeling as E46 just a different body and stronger engine? You don't know $h!t!
EnI
Piston Pioneer
- Messages
- 14,083
And you have based you opinion on what? Two "comparison tests" made by Autocar & AutoExpress?
Almost every magazine claim BMW cars are "ugly", that iDrive is "too complicated", ride in BMW cars "too harsh". Do you believe them? Do you?
Do you really believe BMW blew it? Despite testing M3 against AM, 911, and even RS4 on the Ring.
Yes, the car is more comfort oriented than M3 has ever been. But it is still a superb performer, a true driver's car, offering great driving pleasure typical for M models.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
- Messages
- 14,083
wow a BMW fan getting his arse ripped open by other BMW fans..
must be intersting for you just_me to recive this kind of treatment
Everybody who talks rubbish gets such treatment.
- Messages
- 19,979
- Name
- Martin
In my experience with instructing modern day drivers (as well as being instructed!!) the one thing I really do know is:
Very very few people have a cooking clue what "steering feel is".
The whole idea behind making a car more useable on a great variation of surfaces is to make the steering as accurate as possible without transmitting every road imperfection through to the driver. This is perceived - by the uninitiated or inexperienced - as a lack of refinement.
Remember, BMW has to walk a very very fine line. Most of the M3's customers are wealthy and upwardly mobile professionals that will use the car for ROAD use. Not trackdays. Ever. Most of these customers are ambitious and intent on achieving higher status by moving upwards from their 335i's, C350's and A4 Sportlines. Now, you introduce this bothersome and unfamiliar sensation called steering feel. Maybe these customers don't want the steering wheel twitching in their hands at the faintest whiff of camber change... maybe these customers don't want every nuance of surface texture transmitted into the palm of their hands. The truth is, most of these customers wouldn't even know what to do with this "additional information". And those of you who can't deal with this reality are delusional as to the progress of modern motoring.
I'm sick and tired of all the assumption and conjecture being bandied about in this supposed "evaluation" of the M3. We have no facts yet. We have nothing to say, back to back, that the C63 AMG's steering provided better feel than that of the M3's.
The only thing that we do have is a frame of reference: the new C63's steering is perceived to be better than that of the old C55. Whoopdeedoo. As if that's a superlative to go by - steering feel in a C55 was never a selling point to begin with.
The new M3's steering is perceptibly less feelsome than can be recalled from the older, less advanced and less refined predessor. People, welcome to the uneasy truth of performance motoring in the modern world.
Very very few people have a cooking clue what "steering feel is".
The whole idea behind making a car more useable on a great variation of surfaces is to make the steering as accurate as possible without transmitting every road imperfection through to the driver. This is perceived - by the uninitiated or inexperienced - as a lack of refinement.
Remember, BMW has to walk a very very fine line. Most of the M3's customers are wealthy and upwardly mobile professionals that will use the car for ROAD use. Not trackdays. Ever. Most of these customers are ambitious and intent on achieving higher status by moving upwards from their 335i's, C350's and A4 Sportlines. Now, you introduce this bothersome and unfamiliar sensation called steering feel. Maybe these customers don't want the steering wheel twitching in their hands at the faintest whiff of camber change... maybe these customers don't want every nuance of surface texture transmitted into the palm of their hands. The truth is, most of these customers wouldn't even know what to do with this "additional information". And those of you who can't deal with this reality are delusional as to the progress of modern motoring.
I'm sick and tired of all the assumption and conjecture being bandied about in this supposed "evaluation" of the M3. We have no facts yet. We have nothing to say, back to back, that the C63 AMG's steering provided better feel than that of the M3's.
The only thing that we do have is a frame of reference: the new C63's steering is perceived to be better than that of the old C55. Whoopdeedoo. As if that's a superlative to go by - steering feel in a C55 was never a selling point to begin with.
The new M3's steering is perceptibly less feelsome than can be recalled from the older, less advanced and less refined predessor. People, welcome to the uneasy truth of performance motoring in the modern world.
PanterroR
Lap Time Luminary
- Messages
- 21,864
Very well said, Martin! Tons of karma from me in your User CP!
Eni will for sure agree with every single word...
warot
Track Technician
- Messages
- 3,750
At the chance of sounding totally ridiculous, I'm going to compare Martin to the King of Thailand. When there was a riot a few years ago with the Myanmars (I think), things got out of hand. The cops couldn't do anything. The King said stop... and peace was restored. Even our neighbours stopped. OK that was OT.
We do actually have something to go by in terms of "steering feel" I think. If the 335i is so damn successful, does anyone here actually believe that the M3, the king of the 3 series will be in anyway inferior?! Come on guys, use common sense.
The other question is: Where all test cars equipped with Servotronic?
We do actually have something to go by in terms of "steering feel" I think. If the 335i is so damn successful, does anyone here actually believe that the M3, the king of the 3 series will be in anyway inferior?! Come on guys, use common sense.
The other question is: Where all test cars equipped with Servotronic?
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
- Messages
- 30,822
wow a BMW fan getting his arse ripped open by other BMW fans..
must be intersting for you just_me to recive this kind of treatment
I almost feel sorry for what you been through
Message to the defenders responding in this post:
Thanks to Ty for that great smiley
- Messages
- 19,979
- Name
- Martin
Now, there's a first... Thanks warot. Don't quite know what to say but hey... me 'n the King of Thailand - we're like this...
PanterroR
Lap Time Luminary
- Messages
- 21,864
I almost feel sorry for what you been through
Message to the defenders responding in this post:
Thanks to Ty for that great smiley
I hope you can see/read it... You know what...
NarutoRamen
Kraftwagen König
- Messages
- 11,001
Nicely put post Martinbo...goes back to the whole "personal taste" when it comes to "steering feel". If you were to ask all the people about what they "think" steering feel is, you'd get lots of mixed answers. It's just one of those things you can't believe what others say, must be experienced by yourself. simple.
Poverty
Oversteer Expert
- Messages
- 1,375
well said. Looks like BMW fans are turning on their own. What comes to mind is an old saying of love is blind.
I suppose justme will now understand what some of us other guys have been saying. They just cannot take it when someone elses opinion of a BMW vehicle is negative. Especially when it comes to M-cars
I for one loved the E46 M3 and agree with what just me is saying. The new car has lost its original appeal.
Prepare for me posers and hairdressers to own these new M3.
