C-Class (W204) Official Mercedes-Benz W204 C-Class Discussion Thread

[Deutsch]

isn't the sportcoupe suppose to be a hatchback???

 

[cawimmer430]

isn't the sportcoupe suppose to be a hatchback???

It was on the W203 and it might be again on the W204. This is just CWW's idea of what it could look like. Just his imagination.

 

[cracker123]

CWW is a genius!

His version of the C-Class Sportcoupe.

looks good, you know mercedes would never do that. Becuase it would shaft the CLK sales.

CLK is a excellent profit earner. I mean this car shares almost all from C class.
has some stuff from E-Class and they sell it for 20k more.

 

[Centurion]

CWW is a genius!

His version of the C-Class Sportcoupe.

I don't like it. Looks like a sedan with two doors. What I want is the CLK to have a real sexy coupe profile like the CL and E92.

 

[Matt]

There making a C coupe? Isnt that what the CLK is??

 

[bum-man]

Possibly a Sport-coupe, but that was just a hatch. As for the real coupe Mercedes will leave that to the CLK.

 

[cawimmer430]

POSTED THE NEW C-CLASS PICTURES ON CAR AND DRIVER. LOOKS LIKE A FLAME WAR WILL DEVELOP OVERTHERE.


Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/idealbb/view.asp?mode=viewtopic&topicID=77441&num=20&pageNo=1

 

[PC Valkyrie]

Here my thoughts on whether the non-AMG C-class should try to compete in the ever increasing horsepower wars. The entry compact luxury segment is a very tough playground.

Some of you have indicated that most people don't "need" over 300HP for everyday driving. Well, who "needs" 200HP?, and so on, and so on....

What is "needed" is irrelevant. What people WANT is the issue. Another very important issue is the perceived VALUE for people who are spending their hard earned bucks on an entry premium vehicle.

The competitors to the C-class include the following cars in Canada for MY2007. All in Canadian dollars to show you perspective on perceived VALUE in terms of power output of the engine.

Acura TSX - 205HP - $37400
Acura TL - 258HP - $42500
Acura TL Type S - 286HP - $46300
(note that the TSX is about the same size as the W203 C-class, and the TL is a bigger car altogether)

Infiniti G35 - 306HP - $39990

Lexus IS250 - 204HP - $36400
Lexus IS350 - 306HP - $49000

Audi A4 2.0T - 200HP - $35310
Audi A4 3.2 - 255HP - $49475

BMW 323i - 200HP - $35600
BMW 328i - 230HP - $41000
BMW 335i - 300HP - $49900

(All W203)
Mercedes C230 - 201HP - $38400
Mercedes C280 - 228HP - $42800
Mercedes C350 - 268HP - $51000

As you can see here, Mercedes does NOT offer any particular VALUE for the customer if they are looking for HP. In fact, the G35 gives the best HP Bang for the buck, by far.

I think there are 2 groups of people who are interested in the compact entry level luxury sedans: 1) young professionals (in their late 20's and 30's) who are starting to make the big bucks and they want to move up from their Honda Civic/Accord, and have family aspirations, and 2) older (mid 40's and 50+) folks who have built their wealth through time, but aren't well off enough or don't want to get something higher class

For the last group, I would guess the majority don't really care about whether their car can blow away another car at a stoplight. They want their car to be comfortable, luxurious, and safe. For the first group, I think many want a more sporty focus. It is this group of younger people with growing wealth that the 3 series has really been successful. And if you want a sporty focus, horsepower MATTERS (for the mind of the owner AND for spirited drives).

The W204 C-class makes this distinction in customer tastes by deliberately offerring different grills to distinguish the more sporty and comfortable models. For the customers interested in the Classic and Elegance lines, less HP than the competition is not an issue. The only problem is the sporty Avant Garde models lack the HP to compete with its competitors. Until the next generation of MB engines comes out (and it doesn't look like it will be soon), the W204 C-class Avant Garde models are already starting off on a bad foot because of their engines (carried over from the facelifted W203, but still relatively new).

 

[SDNR]

CWW is a genius!

His version of the C-Class Sportcoupe.

It looks very nice .....do you think they will build a coupé and convertible versions?

 

[Mr. M]

But some people want that kind of power in a C-Class without necessesarily buying an AMG version, especially in North America where the V8 is practically a must in a luxury car is possible. The way I see North American luxury buyers thinking is like this: "A V6 in this class is great, but damn, a V8 is even better."

We could also argue that MB should drop the E550 and make the only V8 E-Class the E63 AMG. See my point?

I guess you're right.

 

[Monster]

Nice photo showing the details of the side mirror. Does the silver triangle above the indicator do anything at all?

http://imageshack.us

 

[Deutsch]

 

[NTT]

Nice photo showing the details of the side mirror. Does the silver triangle above the indicator do anything at all?

http://imageshack.us

My guess is that its creates an optical illusion of the true size of the mirrors, making them appear to be smaller than they are, for some reason the size is a lot more tolerable than they were under the camo.

 

[cawimmer430]

Here my thoughts on whether the non-AMG C-class should try to compete in the ever increasing horsepower wars. The entry compact luxury segment is a very tough playground.

Some of you have indicated that most people don't "need" over 300HP for everyday driving. Well, who "needs" 200HP?, and so on, and so on....

What is "needed" is irrelevant. What people WANT is the issue. Another very important issue is the perceived VALUE for people who are spending their hard earned bucks on an entry premium vehicle.

The competitors to the C-class include the following cars in Canada for MY2007. All in Canadian dollars to show you perspective on perceived VALUE in terms of power output of the engine.

Acura TSX - 205HP - $37400
Acura TL - 258HP - $42500
Acura TL Type S - 286HP - $46300
(note that the TSX is about the same size as the W203 C-class, and the TL is a bigger car altogether)

Infiniti G35 - 306HP - $39990

Lexus IS250 - 204HP - $36400
Lexus IS350 - 306HP - $49000

Audi A4 2.0T - 200HP - $35310
Audi A4 3.2 - 255HP - $49475

BMW 323i - 200HP - $35600
BMW 328i - 230HP - $41000
BMW 335i - 300HP - $49900

(All W203)
Mercedes C230 - 201HP - $38400
Mercedes C280 - 228HP - $42800
Mercedes C350 - 268HP - $51000

As you can see here, Mercedes does NOT offer any particular VALUE for the customer if they are looking for HP. In fact, the G35 gives the best HP Bang for the buck, by far.

I think there are 2 groups of people who are interested in the compact entry level luxury sedans: 1) young professionals (in their late 20's and 30's) who are starting to make the big bucks and they want to move up from their Honda Civic/Accord, and have family aspirations, and 2) older (mid 40's and 50+) folks who have built their wealth through time, but aren't well off enough or don't want to get something higher class

For the last group, I would guess the majority don't really care about whether their car can blow away another car at a stoplight. They want their car to be comfortable, luxurious, and safe. For the first group, I think many want a more sporty focus. It is this group of younger people with growing wealth that the 3 series has really been successful. And if you want a sporty focus, horsepower MATTERS (for the mind of the owner AND for spirited drives).

The W204 C-class makes this distinction in customer tastes by deliberately offerring different grills to distinguish the more sporty and comfortable models. For the customers interested in the Classic and Elegance lines, less HP than the competition is not an issue. The only problem is the sporty Avant Garde models lack the HP to compete with its competitors. Until the next generation of MB engines comes out (and it doesn't look like it will be soon), the W204 C-class Avant Garde models are already starting off on a bad foot because of their engines (carried over from the facelifted W203, but still relatively new).

Excellent post, PC.

I wonder if perhaps the 272-hp C350 has a few tricks up it's sleeve. Remember how in the past, BMW cars used to have less horsepower but were just as fast as its more powerful competitors. So despite Mercedes claiming a 6.5 second 0-100 km/h time for the C350, Car and Driver for example might possibly get something like 5.8 or 5.9.

Mercedes isn't stupid. They've tested the BMW 335i or Lexus IS350 while developing the C-Class, no doubt. When I spoke with that BMW engine engineer, he told me that they check out the cars of their competitors in detail and try to improve a particular area in their BMW's to match or exceed the strengths of the competition. We can assume that MB does the same. So despite looking "outclassed" on paper, the C350 might actually...well...be "quicker". I hope so.

And here's the clincher. The specs currently listed are for the European models. American-spec Mercedes' always get different final drive ratios that are biased towards acceleration. So, if Mercedes changes the final drive ratio on the US-spec C350 as well as revise the gear ratios on the 7Gtronic, the C350 might actually be just as fast or within the acceleration range as the BMW 335i, Lexus IS350 or Infiniti G35 despite a 30-horsepower disadvantage.

 

[cawimmer430]

It looks very nice .....do you think they will build a coupé and convertible versions?

I think the Sportcoupe is a must because this time, it will definitely start out as a more serious and sporty vehicle.

Not sure about the convertible. That might rob sales of the CLK Cabrio. Speaking of which, this photoshop would look pretty good as the next generation CLK.

 

[Zafiro]

And here's the clincher. The specs currently listed are for the European models. American-spec Mercedes' always get different final drive ratios that are biased towards acceleration. So, if Mercedes changes the final drive ratio on the US-spec C350 as well as revise the gear ratios on the 7Gtronic, the C350 might actually be just as fast or within the acceleration range as the BMW 335i, Lexus IS350 or Infiniti G35 despite a 30-horsepower disadvantage.

yes sure , to 0-60 they migth be but in real world, speed is more than just 0-60. In midrange acceleration and in higher speeds I believe 335 will be faster than C350. BMW 335i develop 400nm from 1300 - 5500 rpm. That will be very hard for a N/A engine to match.

 

[cawimmer430]

yes sure , to 0-60 they migth be but in real world, speed is more than just 0-60. In midrange acceleration and in higher speeds I believe 335 will be faster than C350. BMW 335i develop 400nm from 1300 - 5500 rpm. That will be very hard for a N/A engine to match.

I don't doubt that the 335i will be quicker than a US-spec C350, I really don't. I am also sure MB is working on a more powerful V6 - or even a V8 for the new C-Class.

I'm happy as long as the 335i hands the Lexus IS350 it's A$$.

 

[Zafiro]

I don't doubt that the 335i will be quicker than a US-spec C350, I really don't. I am also sure MB is working on a more powerful V6 - or even a V8 for the new C-Class.

I'm happy as long as the 335i hands the Lexus IS350 it's A$$.

If I know MB correct they will build an engine that develop 20hp extra than 335i.
(hence E500/550i , 388hp/367hp) to compete with 335i.

 

[cawimmer430]

If I know MB correct they will build an engine that develop 20hp extra than 335i.
(hence E500/550i , 388hp/367hp) to compete with 335i.

And if this happens, knowing BMW, it will still be just as a quick or a little slower (by like 0.2 or so seconds) than the MB.

 

[EnI]

If I know MB correct they will build an engine that develop 20hp extra than 335i.
(hence E500/550i , 388hp/367hp) to compete with 335i.

Mind that N54 engine will get a boost with E90/1 facelift (planned for 2008), or even earlier.