T-Class/Citan [Official] Mercedes-Benz Citan (W415)
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The Mercedes-Benz Citan is a panel van and leisure activity vehicle introduced as a badge-engineered variant of the Renault Kangoo in 2012 and marketed by Mercedes-Benz as the successor to the Vaneo compact MPV. In the Mercedes-Benz van lineup, the Citan is the smallest model offered, alongside the mid-size V-Class (aka Viano, Vito, and EQV) and large Sprinter.
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
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Fact is guys, as much as it makes business sense etc. I do respect the 3 pointed star, it's legacy and innovative spirit. I love Benz and always looked up to the brand since the age of seven. Even followed in my late dad's footsteps - my first two brand new premium cars where W203's...changed to BMW in 2004 one of the main reasons being Scrempp & kie diluting the brand I always adorned as THE icon.
So, it does 'hurt' when a inferior product to the worlds most prestigious brand get to wear it's badge and NOT deserving to - for whatever reason that is IMO, how I feel about THE brand you (Merc1 & Wolfgang our Benz members) always defend
Now it's my turn to defend a stupid re-badge of a product not worthy of wearing THE badge from the inventor of the automobile. It can't be that hard to understand my fundamental feeling about this!?
Hell, I mean I did not grind M-B on the A-pillar lagging a trim piece on the new A & B-class to put M-B in a bad spot vs BMW. No, I expect NOTHING LESS from the 3 pointed star than: "The Best or nothing"
^
Fact is guys, as much as it makes business sense etc. I do respect the 3 pointed star, it's legacy and innovative spirit. I love Benz and always looked up to the brand since the age of seven. Even followed in my late dad's footsteps - my first two brand new premium cars where W203's...changed to BMW in 2004 one of the main reasons being Scrempp & kie diluting the brand I always adorned as THE icon.
So, it does 'hurt' when a inferior product to the worlds most prestigious brand get to wear it's badge and NOT deserving to - for whatever reason that is IMO, how I feel about THE brand you (Merc1 & Wolfgang our Benz members) always defend
Now it's my turn to defend a stupid re-badge of a product not worthy of wearing THE badge from the inventor of the automobile. It can't be that hard to understand my fundamental feeling about this!?
Hell, I mean I did not grind M-B on the A-pillar lagging a trim piece on the new A & B-class to put M-B in a bad spot vs BMW. No, I expect NOTHING LESS from the 3 pointed star than: "The Best or nothing"
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
Proper classic Benz:
Now K-A, Merc1 and myself can start complaining about how new Merc trucks look bad compared to classic ones, lol
Now K-A, Merc1 and myself can start complaining about how new Merc trucks look bad compared to classic ones, lol
What's the big deal about Mercedes slapping their badge on a Renault Kangoo? Lamborghini makes tractors. Does that make the Aventador less desirable?
If BMW were going to create their own commercial vehicle line up, they probably would slap their badge and their pair of nostrils on to a Peugeot Bipper and leave at that. Why would they go to great lengths to develop their own rear-wheel-drive van, when they could just take advantage of their alliance with PSA and "borrow" a Peugeot van? Would that make the M5 less desirable?
If BMW were going to create their own commercial vehicle line up, they probably would slap their badge and their pair of nostrils on to a Peugeot Bipper and leave at that. Why would they go to great lengths to develop their own rear-wheel-drive van, when they could just take advantage of their alliance with PSA and "borrow" a Peugeot van? Would that make the M5 less desirable?
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
Suspect the Citan is needed to meet Euro van fleet (Vito, Viano, Sprinter, Vario) averages...
Good point. Could be true.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
Exactly Marcus. This thread is ridiculous. MB have sold some incredibly average vans, yet they still manage to sell more top end products than BMW and AUDI. I wonder why? Nobody gives a hoot about a panel van. As long as it's a good, solid and reliable product that does the job, that's all it needs to be.
I don't care about the Vans either. However, the issue here is that M-B is sharing platforms with their HIGH END (E-Class) cars with Nissan. That is tragic, as even when they gave Chrysler their platforms, they gave them their old platforms. M-B sticking their muzzle onto a Renault is just possible further proof that M-B's handlers may screw the pooch in terms of upholding M-B's historic prestige.
mini_cooper4
Autotechnik Ace
Our companies have a lot of experience with french commercial vans.
Yes we have a Kangoo in the fleet too.
To be honest the Kangoo isn't reliable at all It's cheap and that's the only advantage... so now it's going to lose it's only advantage in it's MB form...
Is the Kangoo a good and reliable vehicle? Nah, not at all but it's way cheaper than what MB had to offer and there is a reason for that
Mark my words now: You will see platform sharing between MB core models and Nissan/Renault too and not all will come from Mercedes
I know business well enough to see where things are going and some conversations I had are making me even more sure about what I'm saying.
Yes we have a Kangoo in the fleet too.
To be honest the Kangoo isn't reliable at all
It's cheap and that's the only advantage... so now it's going to lose it's only advantage in it's MB form...Is the Kangoo a good and reliable vehicle? Nah, not at all but it's way cheaper than what MB had to offer and there is a reason for that
Mark my words now: You will see platform sharing between MB core models and Nissan/Renault too and not all will come from Mercedes
I know business well enough to see where things are going and some conversations I had are making me even more sure about what I'm saying.
With Infiniti technically. Same difference, just as inappropriate for M-B to do.
There have been lots of articles on it, and a recent Thread here seemed to confirm it.
You will see platform sharing between MB core models and Nissan/Renault too and not all will come from Mercedes
I know business well enough to see where things are going and some conversations I had are making me even more sure about what I'm saying.
That's the problem. In my eyes, the stuff about goofy lines et al won't compare to M-B signing its soul away when they give up their C-Class/E-Class/who knows what else chassis'. Bad enough they gave Jeep their ML chassis and allowed the new GC to be one of the greatest SUV's of all time, totally uncharacteristic of a Chrysler product.... Of course it is.... Because it's an M-B underneath it all.
Merc1
Premium
There has been nothing official on an Infiniti sharing an E-Cass chassis. K/A. This is how misinformation gets started.
They didn't give Jeep their chassis either. The development of the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the ML was twinned from the start, before the big breakup. After they broke up they just went their own way with it. The only chassis they "gave" them was the old SLK for the Crossfire and the W210 E which lives on in bits and pieces under the 300/Challenger/Charger line of cars. There clearly won't be any more of that with Chrysler.
M
Infiniti G plans: Hybrid, 530 hp V-6, maybe diesel
The next G will take over the next C's platform, which is obviously gonna be a smaller version of the next E's platform.
Tragic, tragic, tragic. I could find ways around lines, and all that stuff to find M-B's to buy and love to keep my favorite brand intact to me.... but giving up their core models to Infiniti/Nissan/Renault.... That's a deal breaker. I really hope BMW's next gen become irresistible to me, because I doubt they'll be giving their core platforms to anybody else to whore out except for themselves of course.
The next G will take over the next C's platform, which is obviously gonna be a smaller version of the next E's platform.
Tragic, tragic, tragic. I could find ways around lines, and all that stuff to find M-B's to buy and love to keep my favorite brand intact to me.... but giving up their core models to Infiniti/Nissan/Renault.... That's a deal breaker. I really hope BMW's next gen become irresistible to me, because I doubt they'll be giving their core platforms to anybody else to whore out except for themselves of course.
Merc1
Premium
The problem here is the C-Class is already far along in development, and the deal between Nissan and Mercedes isn't that old enough for them to have worked on the two cars together. What is happening is the Mercedes is more or less giving them the platform to work off of, not twinned development of the 2 models like the ML/JGC.
Furthermore I don't see how Infiniti is going to continue to be the best BMW alternative with a C-Class chassis underneath. It would take a major re-working for it to be as sporty as even the current G much less the new 3-Series.
In short I will believe it when I see it, with an official press release. Not some article from Motor Trend. Where does it say anything about the E-Class? It doesn't.
This place has really become a hotbed for hype and much ado about nothing and just plain misinformation.
M
Furthermore I don't see how Infiniti is going to continue to be the best BMW alternative with a C-Class chassis underneath. It would take a major re-working for it to be as sporty as even the current G much less the new 3-Series.
In short I will believe it when I see it, with an official press release. Not some article from Motor Trend. Where does it say anything about the E-Class? It doesn't.
This place has really become a hotbed for hype and much ado about nothing and just plain misinformation.
M
About the G VS C relationship, I totally agree. It wouldn't benefit EITHER Mercedes or Infiniti to share platforms. Neither fans of each brand would want "their cars" to perform or feel anything like the other brand in this case.
This isn't really misinformation, and it isn't even speculation at this point. Of course neither Daimler or Renault/Nissan would state this as factual yet (as far as I know). but we have numerous sources and articles that state that M-B IS giving their C chassis to Infiniti, which is a huge deal. At the same time, the next C will be primarily American made, so it will be a first off in many ways.
As for the E platform, I have no doubts that if M-B will whore their platforms to Renault/Nissan, it's just a matter of time before the E goes next. Not to mention, M-B will be platform sharing like BMW, so the next C platform will probably be the same basis as the next E and even perhaps the next S. Probably just a matter of time before the S goes to Infiniti for some luxo-barge development they might inevitably be working on. As Mini_Cooper said, this is how these businesses work. Once the bean counters get the taste of blood, by putting an M-B Star on a POS Renault, or getting $$$$ for giving a C-Class to Infiniti, they'll move up the ladder, until the effect blows up in their face (like what happened with Chrysler), and they're forced an about-face.
There's a quote from M-B and Renault exec's where they were talking about sharing the little MPG entry cars that were originally the only part of the deal, where they said "developing/sharing larger luxury model platforms/powertrains isn't taboo right now, there are many possibilities that are in the works and/or in talks with this relationship". Or some crap like that. Straight from the horses mouths.
This isn't really misinformation, and it isn't even speculation at this point. Of course neither Daimler or Renault/Nissan would state this as factual yet (as far as I know). but we have numerous sources and articles that state that M-B IS giving their C chassis to Infiniti, which is a huge deal. At the same time, the next C will be primarily American made, so it will be a first off in many ways.
As for the E platform, I have no doubts that if M-B will whore their platforms to Renault/Nissan, it's just a matter of time before the E goes next. Not to mention, M-B will be platform sharing like BMW, so the next C platform will probably be the same basis as the next E and even perhaps the next S. Probably just a matter of time before the S goes to Infiniti for some luxo-barge development they might inevitably be working on. As Mini_Cooper said, this is how these businesses work. Once the bean counters get the taste of blood, by putting an M-B Star on a POS Renault, or getting $$$$ for giving a C-Class to Infiniti, they'll move up the ladder, until the effect blows up in their face (like what happened with Chrysler), and they're forced an about-face.
There's a quote from M-B and Renault exec's where they were talking about sharing the little MPG entry cars that were originally the only part of the deal, where they said "developing/sharing larger luxury model platforms/powertrains isn't taboo right now, there are many possibilities that are in the works and/or in talks with this relationship". Or some crap like that. Straight from the horses mouths.
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Mercedes-Benz
Mercedes-Benz Group AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany.
Established in 1926, Mercedes-Benz Group produces consumer luxury
vehicles and light commercial vehicles badged as Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG,
and Mercedes-Maybach.
Its origin lies in Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft's 1901 Mercedes
and Carl Benz's 1886 Benz Patent-Motorwagen, which is widely regarded
as the first internal combustion engine in a self-propelled automobile.
The slogan for the brand is "the best or nothing".
