Senna [Official] McLaren Senna (P15)

[Giannis]

Colour me intrigued!

 

[Laurent T]

With better pictures, it's interesting to look at... but still ugly. I get the point that aerodynamics are key factor for such a performance focused car, but I hope it will not dominate the design so much for other cars.
Curious to see if all 500 cars will sell (seems to be the case) and how such a design will hold value. Hope the future 7xx LT won't be so extreme and keep the same approach than the 675LT.

 

[WBarnes]

100kg less than 720S (2,850lb kerb) and 800hp, which probably means 850-900hp given 720S's true power figures.

Looks? Doesn't really look any worse than an SCG003S.

 

[DeDe]

Looks? Doesn't really look any worse than an SCG003S.

Which also looks terrible.

 

[StartYourEngines]

Completely nuts...if true

Why would it be "nuts"?

The downforce produced by the P1 GTR is a joke compared to that of true racers, it would be the bare minimum for this car, which was declared as completely track-focused from the beginning, to have more downforce than the GTR.

The real question is: has the Senna more downforce than the 5 P1 LM which were specifically prepared by the Lanzante Motorsport team? Because, remember, the P1 LM has 40% more downforce than the P1 GTR.

 

[Centurion]

I get the point that aerodynamics are key factor for such a performance focused car, but I hope it will not dominate the design so much for other cars.

Too late. Both the Mercedes One and Lamborghini Centenario have the nose of a handheld vacuum cleaner. Their rears aren't what I would call classically beautiful.

 

[Monster]

Interesting Mclaren has been unusually silent on the Nurburgring lap time prediction.

 

[Laurent T]

Too late. Both the Mercedes One and Lamborghini Centenario have the nose of a handheld vacuum cleaner. Their rears aren't what I would call classically beautiful.

Mercedes One still manages to display some curves. I find it much more visually appealing. But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

 

[Centurion]

Mercedes One still manages to display some curves. I find it much more visually appealing. But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

I totally agree. The Mercedes strikes a better balance between beauty and aero performance. Either way, McLaren offers choice. Anyone who want a supercar that looks great on the street can buy the 720S. The Senna will appeal to collectors, "gentleman racers" and participants of the Ferrari Challenge races.

Sales figures and resale value will be interesting as this car will test the market for track biased supercars that prioritise function over form. Neither Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari have an equivalent offering.

 

[Monster]

Sales figures and resale value will be interesting as this car will test the market for track biased supercars that prioritise function over form. Neither Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari have an equivalent offering.

I think people will eventually view this as an extensively modified 720s. I am still not convinced by the idea, execution and the styling of this car.

 

[WBarnes]

Which also looks terrible.

You don't look at the mantelpiece while you're poking the fire.

 

[Bucketslash11]

alexmolik opinion

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[Centurion]

I think people will eventually view this as an extensively modified 720s.

I hear you. A bit like how the 675 looks like an upgraded 12C. This car will be built to order so if demand is insufficient, production could fall short of 500.

 

[Bucketslash11]

a P1 LM has around 2000lb of downforce (see this article for reference: Elemental's Rp1 Has More Downforce Than a P1 LM), this has 4000lb of downforce

the Senna doesn't seem to sacrifice as much for downforce as the Valkyrie

 

[Bucketslash11]

why is the wing so much over the rear wheels, usually manufacturers put the wing as far back as they can in order to get more leverage from the wing being pulled down

 

[StartYourEngines]

I believe that comparing the Senna to the Valkyrie is not fair for the former, since we are talking about completely different weight classes, and the raw numbers make it clear (assuming of course the Valkyrie will keep its promises).

The real question is, for now, about which could be the fastest road-legal McLaren: the Senna or the P1 LM? Remember that the P1 LM is not a mere road-legal P1 GTR, but a completely different beast of which just 5 copies were built by Lanzante Motorsport.

Let's see, for the Senna vs P1 LM debate, on paper we have:

Weight: 1198 kg (dry) vs 1390 kg (kerb, 60 kg lighter than the GTR and 110 kg lighter than the standard P1)
The figure for the P1 LM is kerb, however it is easy to imagine that even the kerb figure of the Senna will be much lower than the 1390 kg figure since we don't have the hybrid system here (the Senna will probably be less than 1300 kg kerb).
Still, the figure of the LM is impressive thanks to the job done by the people at Lanzante (110 kg lighter than standard P1 is a hell of a lot less).

Downforce: not specified for the Senna, it will probably be higher than that of the P1 GTR anyway vs 40% more downforce than the P1 GTR for the P1 LM.
I am curious to see if the Senna will be capable to match the LM figure.

Displacement: 4.0 liters engine for both (remember that, unlike the LM, the P1 GTR and the standard P1 use the previous 3.8 liter version).

Power: 800 PS for the Senna. Interestingly, the ICE part of the LM has an output of exactly 800 PS as well, more than that of the standard P1 and the GTR (bigger displacement and turbo recalibration). Overall, it's 1015 PS for the P1 LM.

Torque: 800 Nm for the Senna vs 1050 Nm for the P1 LM (mainly thanks to the hybrid system).

Tyres: bespoke Trofeo R for the Senna. Also the P1 LM wears bespoke Trofeo R rubber. What's interesting about the P1 LM is that it has much larger tyres (meaning higher mechanical grip) than both the standard P1 and the P1 GTR. Indeed it is:

- P1: 245/35/19 (F); 315/30/20 (R)
- P1 GTR: 270-section tyres at the front and 330s at the rear
- P1 LM: 275/30/19 (F); 335/30/20 (R)

It will be interesting to discover the tyres size of the Senna, but given its track orientation, I expect for them as well to be much larger than those of the standard P1 both at the front and at the rear.


Overall, I think that the level of performance will be quite close between the Senna and the LM, with the former probably regaining in the chassis and weight department the advantages that the P1 LM has in terms of raw power and torque thanks to the hybrid system.
In two categories however, as far as I am concerned, the Senna is already defeated by the P1 LM: the sheer look and, probably, the collecting value.
Sorry, but the Senna ain't got nothing on this:

 

[Monster]

why is the wing so much over the rear wheels, usually manufacturers put the wing as far back as they can in order to get more leverage from the wing being pulled down

My guess is that the wing cannot extend beyond the rear bumper for road regulation purposes.

 

[Monster]

the Senna doesn't seem to sacrifice as much for downforce as the Valkyrie

Knowing Newey's design philosophy, he wants a car to have maximum aero efficiency, and generate the maximum amount of down force from the underside of the car. This can be done if the car is designed from a clean sheet, which isn't the case for this "Senna".

 

[Monster]

I hear you. A bit like how the 675 looks like an upgraded 12C. This car will be built to order so if demand is insufficient, production could fall short of 500.

I suspect it was the similar case for the P1, but of course the marketing department spin it the other way.

 

[kingjr9000]

I believe that comparing the Senna to the Valkyrie is not fair for the former, since we are talking about completely different weight classes, and the raw numbers make it clear (assuming of course the Valkyrie will keep its promises).

The real question is, for now, about which could be the fastest road-legal McLaren: the Senna or the P1 LM? Remember that the P1 LM is not a mere road-legal P1 GTR, but a completely different beast of which just 5 copies were built by Lanzante Motorsport.

Let's see, for the Senna vs P1 LM debate, on paper we have:

Weight: 1198 kg (dry) vs 1390 kg (kerb, 60 kg lighter than the GTR and 110 kg lighter than the standard P1)
The figure for the P1 LM is kerb, however it is easy to imagine that even the kerb figure of the Senna will be much lower than the 1390 kg figure since we don't have the hybrid system here (the Senna will probably be less than 1300 kg kerb).
Still, the figure of the LM is impressive thanks to the job done by the people at Lanzante (110 kg lighter than standard P1 is a hell of a lot less).

Downforce: not specified for the Senna, it will probably be higher than that of the P1 GTR anyway vs 40% more downforce than the P1 GTR for the P1 LM.
I am curious to see if the Senna will be capable to match the LM figure.

Displacement: 4.0 liters engine for both (remember that, unlike the LM, the P1 GTR an...

I remember reading an article where it was hinted that it would the first road car have enough DF to be able to drive upside down. And the "nuts" bit that i was talking about was the "faster than a gt3 class racer" bit.

From C&D:

When we tried to discuss the substantial loads that the burly wing supports are clearly designed to handle, vehicle line director Andy Palmer (no relation to the Aston Martin CEO of the same name) showed no visible dissent when we speculated that the peak figure could well be greater than the weight of the car itself. This might be the first roadgoing car to boast the theoretical capability of driving on the ceiling.