650S [Official] McLaren 650S

[Mafalda]

It' s a quick test, poor data panel
332.188 kph
0-60 1.8s
0-100 3.0s
0-200 8.4s
1/4 mile 10.5s
1 km 18.9s
100-0 37.9m
200-0 135.9m

Vairano handling
1.12.289 ( 08:05 am, air 23.c, track 29.c, set tyres for new)
No more infos, I'll try ask for more

After ten long days, qr finally replay
332.188 kph
0-60 1.8s
0-100 3.0s
0-160 5.75s
0-200 8.4s
0-240 12.26s
1/4 mile 10.5s @ 223.0
1 km 18.9s @ 280.2
Kerb weight 1,445 kgs

 

[ffforever]

Good job! Don't understand why they didn't just publish in the first place

 

[F40 LeMans]

I would like to see a dynosheet of the cars

 

[savage-It]

So just about 10 kg less than the Speciale ..

 

[DeDe]

Finished...

 

[Rolf]

After 160km/h the 650S starts building a sizable lead over the other 2 cars, unbelievable that it is 0.5sec faster at the km post and 9km/h faster than the 458 Speciale!!!!!!

 

[savage-It]

After 160km/h the 650S starts building a sizable lead over the other 2 cars, unbelievable that it is 0.5sec faster at the km post and 9km/h faster than the 458 Speciale!!!!!!

according to Quattroruote the empty weight of these two cars is very close. So add 45 hp to the Speciale and then you will see that the 650S is just doing an excellent job in proportion to her "numbers" and not according to any specific superiority.

 

[Mafalda]

according to Quattroruote the empty weight of these two cars is very close. So add 45 hp to the Speciale and then you will see that the 650S is just doing an excellent job in proportion to her "numbers" and not according to any specific superiority.

...and 140 Nm....

 

[savage-It]

...and 140 Nm....

correct you are right...

 

[Rolf]

The Lambo has amazing brakes compared to the other 2 cars, the Ferrari gearing is considerably shorter than the 650S due to its much lower torque output.

 

[RS2000 4X4]

according to Quattroruote the empty weight of these two cars is very close. So add 45 hp to the Speciale and then you will see that the 650S is just doing an excellent job in proportion to her "numbers" and not according to any specific superiority.

You are right... assuming that everybody can replicate these numbers, which McLaren has proven they can be replicated by you and me...

When you look at the times an MP12 turns out on the dragstrip (between 10.4 and 10.8 with 600bhp version) and those of the 458 (NEVER under 11 seconds and mostly just under 12!!). I speak of the video's found on the internet and not of the times made by magazines. In the magazines the Italia turns out 11-11.6 which seems very difficult to be made by the owners... The McLaren turns out the same times as made by many magazines. Check the videos of the 458 on Moscou Unlimited for example, very poor!! And yes not every driver is the same but in a time where the manual is replaced by clever electronics and the driver has only his right foot to worry, it says a lot.

I would say the 650S will destroy the Speciale everytime, even if it has 650bhp.

 

[savage-It]

You are right... assuming that everybody can replicate these numbers, which McLaren has proven they can be replicated by you and me...

When you look at the times an MP12 turns out on the dragstrip (between 10.4 and 10.8 with 600bhp version) and those of the 458 (NEVER under 11 seconds and mostly just under 12!!). I speak of the video's found on the internet and not of the times made by magazines. In the magazines the Italia turns out 11-11.6 which seems very difficult to be made by the owners... The McLaren turns out the same times as made by many magazines. Check the videos of the 458 on Moscou Unlimited for example, very poor!! And yes not every driver is the same but in a time where the manual is replaced by clever electronics and the driver has only his right foot to worry, it says a lot.

I would say the 650S will destroy the Speciale everytime, even if it has 650bhp.

About your last sentence you are right but only about straight accelerations in my opinion. About youtube videos I would not consider them as the Bible.
But when we consider the race track performances and starting considering only the two McLaren cars, Mp4 12c and 650S and the lap times that have been verified officially by 3th parts not involved with Ferrari (so noone can say that Ferrari plays a role here) I would say that the 650S is not destroying even the Mp4 at all. Considering the improved downforce and geometry of the car, brakes and so on, many would have liked to see more results. Certainly these results will arrive with the rumored 650S Speciale Version.Then if we take a look at some 458 Speciale's lap times compared to 650S and Mp4 12C and standard 458, you clearly see that the Speciale is a much larger step forward compared to the regular 458 .So from my point of view if to destroy another car means to make only straight accelerations then sure you are right, 650S wins.But my philosophy to judge a sport-race car is strongly related to his performance on the race track and about the numbers they are able to offer "there". But this is my limited vision of course.But this vision for example, is emphasized by the performances of the several different versions of the P.Gt3 RS against cars with much more power (in primis Ferrari). Of course Ferrari wins on straight accelerations and destroy them, but on race tracks against a well piloted RS??no chance.
So not always the faster car on straight is the best on race track as you know.
Actually from what I know, we have just two comparison about the 650S and the Speciale.Autocar tested as you know the two cars and declared exactly the same lap time on that race track not showing any specific 650S superiority.But on the paper the 650S is much faster.On Vairano the gap in favor of the 650S coupe was 0,26 sec. against the Speciale and 0,63 against the Mp4 spider.So even here nothing special for a car that is so well performing on acceleration and braking (this last attitude is similar to the Speciale's one so at least the 650S has big advantage on acceleration).So if I have to judge a car that is much superior on straight line and identical or better in braking (active aero braking system helpes the 650S for example according to some test drivers) and the lap times at the end are the same or similar on some race tracks to another car that is clearly not on the same level of performance, I would make myself some questions.
I am absolutely sure that McLaren is thinking about a Speciale version of the 650S.That one will be a monster and they have to do this since the new Speciale version of the next 458M (turbo) will not arrive before 5 years. So they have to use this advantage in my personal opinion. Asap.
Ps: I forgot to say that at Anglesey the Speciale at the moment has the best lap time. I can even let you know that there are some solid rumors (I have some connections sorry) about the Gt3 that was tested there (just 3 decimals behind the Speciale) and the 650 S that had the worse lap time of the 3. We will see soon if EVO will confirm these rumors .In this case btw, big plause to the GT3 in my opinion, for what she is and what she costs.

 

[RS2000 4X4]

About your last sentence you are right but only about straight accelerations in my opinion. About youtube videos I would not consider them as the Bible.
But when we consider the race track performances and starting considering only the two McLaren cars, Mp4 12c and 650S and the lap times that have been verified officially by 3th parts not involved with Ferrari (so noone can say that Ferrari plays a role here) I would say that the 650S is not destroying even the Mp4 at all. Considering the improved downforce and geometry of the car, brakes and so on, many would have liked to see more results. Certainly these results will arrive with the rumored 650S Speciale Version.Then if we take a look at some 458 Speciale's lap times compared to 650S and Mp4 12C and standard 458, you clearly see that the Speciale is a much larger step forward compared to the regular 458 .So from my point of view if to destroy another car means to make only straight accelerations then sure you are right, 650S wins.But my philosophy to judge a sport-race car is strongly related to his performance on the race track and about the numbers they are able to offer "there". But this is my limited vision of course.But this vision for example, is emphasized by the performances of the several different versions of the P.Gt3 RS against cars with much more power (in primis Ferrari). Of course Ferrari wins on straight accelerations and destroy them, but on race tracks against a well piloted RS??no chance.
So not always the faster car on straight is the best on race track as you know.
Actually from what I know, we have just two comparison about the 650S and the Speciale.Autocar tested as you know the two cars and declared exactly the same lap time on that race track not showing any specific 650S superiority.But on the paper the 650S is much faster.On Vairano the gap in favor of the 650S coupe was 0,26 sec. against the Speciale and 0,63 against the Mp4 spider.So even here nothing special for a car that is so well performing on acceleration and braking (this last attitude is similar to the Speciale's one so at least the 650S has big advantage on acceleration).So if I have to judge a car that is much superior on straight line and identical or better in braking (active aero braking system helpes the 650S for example according to some test drivers) and the lap times at the end are the same or similar on some race tracks to another car that is clearly not on the same level of performance, I would make myself some questions.
I am absolutely sure that McLaren is thinking about a Speciale version of the 650S.That one will be a monster and they have to do this since the new Speciale version of the next 458M (turbo) will not arrive before 5 years. So they have to use this advantage in my personal opinion. Asap.
Ps: I forgot to say that at Anglesey the Speciale at the moment has the best lap time. I can even let you know that there are some solid rumors (I have some connections sorry) about the Gt3 that was tested there (just 3 decimals behind the Speciale) and the 650 S that had the worse lap time of the 3. We will see soon if EVO will confirm these rumors .In this case btw, big plause to the GT3 in my opinion, for what she is and what she costs.

Thanks for the response!! And a nice one too

You are also right but you forget one thing.

The speciale is developed with one thing in mind; being the GT3 of the 458. Being a circuit car with less comfort, everything is being made for making a fast laptime.
The 650S is made to be comfortable, to be fast and with all the luxury of a bigger car. No GT3 intentions here...
That it loses on a track against a Speciale, I can very much believe that. But when looking at the times of both, the Speciale SHOULD be much much faster than it is right now!!! Sure it is faster but the 650S is right on its tail. Not quite what Ferrari had in mind I am sure... IF there will be a track dedicated 650S, then we will be able to compare correctly But for now, with the intentions of Ferrari and McLaren in mind, I think McLaren did a better job. Just my opinion off course.

BTW: The GT3 is a beast, when you look at the horsepower and the layout, there is not a better one out there!!

Greetz

 

[Porsche Guy]

according to Quattroruote the empty weight of these two cars is very close. So add 45 hp to the Speciale and then you will see that the 650S is just doing an excellent job in proportion to her "numbers" and not according to any specific superiority.

I'm not one for judging a car by quantitative measurements but since when is power output not a specific category? What about those two cars is built to spec aside from the fact that they're mid engine, RWD with a 7 speed double clutch?

 

[savage-It]

Thanks for the response!! And a nice one too

You are also right but you forget one thing.

The speciale is developed with one thing in mind; being the GT3 of the 458. Being a circuit car with less comfort, everything is being made for making a fast laptime.
The 650S is made to be comfortable, to be fast and with all the luxury of a bigger car. No GT3 intentions here...
That it loses on a track against a Speciale, I can very much believe that. But when looking at the times of both, the Speciale SHOULD be much much faster than it is right now!!! Sure it is faster but the 650S is right on its tail. Not quite what Ferrari had in mind I am sure... IF there will be a track dedicated 650S, then we will be able to compare correctly But for now, with the intentions of Ferrari and McLaren in mind, I think McLaren did a better job. Just my opinion off course.

BTW: The GT3 is a beast, when you look at the horsepower and the layout, there is not a better one out there!!

Greetz

Yes we both agree that McLaren has to make soon his more focused race track version. They will not be able to loose much much weight since they are already very light but they can again improve handling and power.
The only goal for them will be to find the way to "download" all that power on the ground. Or it will not be so easy to manage a similar car because already now it si not.. Probably due to the torque/turbo character of his engine.
At the same time I would be very pleased (it will never happy, we know) to see a 458 Speciale with his superlative NA engine with 650 hp...or to see the 650 S with about 600 hp, just to make apple to apple comparisons.

 

[Porsche Guy]

At the same time I would be very pleased (it will never happy, we know) to see a 458 Speciale with his superlative NA engine with 650 hp...or to see the 650 S with about 600 hp, just to make apple to apple comparisons.

I alluded to this in my last post but manufacturers do not build cars to the same spec. You will never have an apples to apple comparison with road cars. Besides the coincidence that both the 458 and 650 are mid engine, rwd and 7 speed, nothing about them is the same. Assume they both have the same HP, what about weight? Tire size/compound? Gearing? Downforce? The list goes on. There is a simply no context for comparison because every manufacturer builds their car to their own unique specifications.

There is only the perception of competition between brands for road cars (not race cars). In competitive racing, cars are separated into classes and limits placed on power and grip to further level the competition. Nothing about comparing one road car to another in terms of quantitative performance is meaningful.

The bottom line is that road cars (even when driven on the track) are experienced in subjective isolation. It's all about how the driving experience, not performance metrics.

 

[F40 LeMans]

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We are waiting for the French dyno, the SportAuto fr supertest, results come soon

 

[F40 LeMans]

I forget to say that Superflow dyno reads figures 2% lower than Maha (just to point out the comparison)

 

[F40 LeMans]

Hi-res scans: here.

DeDe I want to ask you something about the "Autobild Sportscars" test method. I think you are the person that can know this. Do you think they use the correction for the acceleration figures or they just print data behind the day ambient conditions?

This is important to understand the discrepancy in power using different systems. Autobild SC use Insoric Real Power while Maha dyno is the system used by SportAuto, I guess there are difference in power results because during the M4 test, the powerful car tested by SportAuto was slower than the less powerful one tested by Autobild SC. How do you think about?

 

[DeDe]

DeDe I want to ask you something about the "Autobild Sportscars" test method. I think you are the person that can know this. Do you think they use the correction for the acceleration figures or they just print data behind the day ambient conditions?

This is important to understand the discrepancy in power using different systems. Autobild SC use Insoric Real Power while Maha dyno is the system used by SportAuto, I guess there are difference in power results because during the M4 test, the powerful car tested by SportAuto was slower than the less powerful one tested by Autobild SC. How do you think about?

There are no correction factors or whatsoever in German tests. They measure acceleration from rest (and by rest I mean 0,00 km/h instead of 1-ft-rollout) in both directions and later they only have to average the best runs of each direction.

I don't know much about the dyno-methodes, but one thing's for sure: Insoric is much more different than the standard, "standing" dynos. I btw. think it's much more reliable, since it measures the car's real power at movement.