LFA [Official] Lexus LF-A Supercar (Production Version)

[330CIZHP]

I guess, the biggest thing is LFA hits GPS measured 100 - 260 km/h in 16.x seconds based on Motorsports France test on very cold freezing temperature tires. As it did in Cargraphic test in the very wet as well where their tests showed LFA in the wet was about even with a Porsche GT3 RS 4.0 in the dry on a different day in 400 meters and 1000 meter sprints.

It is reasonable to assume inspite of the very high downforce, it will not take another 30 seconds for it to gain a mere 40 km/h more (unless some unknown external circumstances affected it).

MotorSport France did the 0-1km in 21.2s @ 260 kph, very low temps. Is that so different from Auto's standard conditions of 21.3 @ 255? It's a little faster, sure but not so huge as the differences I will describe below..

 

[Levi68]

To compare the LFA to the SLS AMG that does 0-300 km/k in 35.7 sec. Weakness of the LFA are the tires at launch, overall the slower shifts and the lack of 7th gear (however the Gallardo and R8 are quite good). And as said before, the downforce makes the LFA slow after ~250-260 km/h. I was told that if the rear wing could be put down at that speed it would shave about 10 sec, thus surely below 40 sec.

Concerning drag, both P-cars have about the same drag, and both have a 6MT, but from 0-300 km/h, the GT3 RS 4.0 needs 41.0 sec and the GT2 RS needs 26.7 sec. Does all the difference only have to do with power/torque? They weight nearly the same, the GT2 RS has +100 PS more and +150 Nm more.

If Lexus wants an LFA II, it may mainly be for faster straighline perofrmance. In terms of handling it is worlds top class.



Back the the LFA NE, here is one very special one that arrived to the US in Perl Red.








PS: Again about 0-300 km/h times, my second favorite car, the Carrera GT is noted at 34.2 sec, slower than a 458 Italia. Off-topic it will be interesting to so how fast the F12 and the new 911 Turbo will be compared the the other fastest ones:
Lamborghini Aventador @ 24.5 sec
Porsche 911 GT2 RS @ 26.7 sec

Also interesting how the GT-R evoluated (0-150 mph):
GT-R (Mk 1): 26.6 sec
GT-R (Mk 3): 17.8 sec
Almost 9 sec faster.

 

[330CIZHP]

The 7th gear is not used for top speed (or 300 km/h). You are right about the tires being weak on the standard LFA, which they are (the 'ring edition comes with decent high-grip rated tires).

Transmission is slower? Compared to what? dual clutch? Ofcourse, the dual clutch is definitely quicker, but the cars you mentioned all have single-clutches plus from 260 km/h - 300 km/h, there is only one shift at 285 km/h required and in the quickest mode, it is certainly not slower than any single-clutch. It can also be proven by looking at the dyno curve for shifting.

Check the video you posted to see if there is any place where the speedo stops. If it even hits 100 km/h in the official spec 3.7 seconds, it is obvious the 260 km/h would come in 19.x.

The 6th gear is already the shortest in the LFA in the class (except 458 Italia) with a total reduction of 3.5:1. The LFA NE possibly has a shorter 6th gear, but I have yet to confirm. You have to keep in mind, LFA revs a 1000 rpm+ higher than all of these other cars, which is why the speed range per gear is not much different.

LFA 6th gear reduction: 3.5:1
LP560-4 6th gear reduction: 3.2:1
R8 V10 6th gear reduction: 3.2:1
LP570-4 gear reduction: 3.2:1
SLS AMG 6th gear reduction: 3.0:1

Source: roadandtrack

Case in point, like Guibo said, the spoiler itself or cwd should not warrant a 50 second 300 km/h regardless.

To compare the LFA to the SLS AMG that does 0-300 km/k in 35.7 sec. Weakness of the LFA are the tires at launch, overall the slower shifts and the lack of 7th gear (however the Gallardo and R8 are quite good). And as said before, the downforce makes the LFA slow after ~250-260 km/h. I was told that if the rear wing could be put down at that speed it would shave about 10 sec, thus surely below 40 sec.

 

[Guibo]

Also interesting how the GT-R evoluated (0-150 mph):
GT-R (Mk 1): 26.6 sec
GT-R (Mk 3): 17.8 sec
Almost 9 sec faster.

The difference isn't that great. Mk1 GT-R should be around 20s to 150 mph. That particular GT-R tested by C&D was slower in 100-150 than even the E46 M3 w/SMGII.

 

[330CIZHP]

As the video above proves, if a R8 V10 spyder with more weight than a standard R8 V10 coupe (which is already slower than the LFA by a good margin) gets to 300 km/h in 43.0 seconds then the LFA should not be that much slower to 300 km/h than a R8 V10 spyder by that much in identical conditions and circumstances.


Regarding shifts speed, here is a good comparison of shift speeds taken from VBOX acceleration test data over time plotted on a graph (the bigger the dip downwards and horizontally, the slower the transmission).

It is more than clear that the only car that shifts quicker than the LFA is the PDK Porsche Turbo S while the single-clutches all being insignificantly different (with GT3 RS 4.0, Z06 and Aston Martin Vantage being the slowest because of manual transmissions).

This video has been posted before of 0 - 285 km/h on the LFA NE. Though, much of the time he is not full throttle and short shifts every gear, but it gets up there very very easily inspite of that massive wing on the back.

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[Mafalda]

MotorSport France did the 0-1km in 21.2s @ 260 kph, very low temps. Is that so different from Auto's standard conditions of 21.3 @ 255? It's a little faster, sure but not so huge as the differences I will describe below.

The reason I think the 0-300 time in Sport Auto for the LFA looks strange is because
1) The SLS in the same test did 0-300 in 42.2, which is 5s slower than it has done in other tests.
2) The Jaguar XKR-S, which has a bit less power, also only 6-speeds, but weighs over 200kg more than the LFA can beat the LFA by over 7 seconds to 300 kph? (43.4 vs 50.6)

Here is that blue German press XKR-S, doing a 70-300 kph run.
Jaguar XKR-S im Test: Kätzchen oder Raubkatze? - SPORT AUTO

It appears to be the same XKR-S (same plate) as the one in the Sport Auto 0-300 test at Papenburg in 2011. In the published test, it did 200-300 in 30.1s. In the video of the speedometer, it appears to be slighly faster, about 26.7. If we assume some speedometer error, it might be similar performance, maybe shot in better conditions than at Papenburg? Who knows. In any event, the video shows a 200-260 kph time of around 11.2s. The LFA in the MotorSport France video seems much faster, closer to 9 seconds flat. How likely, then, is it that the LFA would suddenly be so much slower than the XKR-S in the final 40 kph spread, when it was already so much faster in 200-260? In the final 20 kph spread (240-260), I measure about 3.3s for the LFA and 5.1 for the XKR-S so the Lexus is still clearly faster even this late into the speed range. At worst, we should expect the LFA to be only merely as fast as the XKR-S in the overall 200-300 kph spread. That means around 26.7-30.1s and a 0-300 kph time of around 40s. The odds of it being some 2s faster in 200-260, still around 2s faster in 240-260, but then suddenly losing 9 whole seconds in the final 40 kph spread seems pretty far fetched.

The GT3 does have very good CdA (0.58), but the GT3 RS 4.0 does not. At 0.71, it's not all that far off from the LFA's 0.78. It still has a manual shift and 50 less hp than the LFA, yet is 9 faster in 200-300? Doesn't sound likely.

Another comparison to consider: In the Battle of the Supercars episode between the LFA and the R8 V10, the LFA proved to be just about as fast in a straight line. The two recorded very similar high speed figures.

Standing mile
LFA: 30.58s @ 167 mph
R8 V10: 30.64s @ 166.1 mph

Top speed
LFA: 184.1 mph
R8 V10: 185.1

Here's a video of an R8 V10 Spyder with manual transmission doing 0-300 in 43s by Sport Auto France:

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The standard coupe has not a great aero figure, at 0.729. It's down on power to the LFA, probably suffers more drivetrain loss, weighs 100 kilos more. If the Spyder version can reach 300 kph in 43 seconds, then the LFA should be able to as well.

maybe LF-A'd be better, but honestly, I do not think it can do so much better.
although we have no an accurate acknowledgment, test @ Balocco has confirmed, approximately, the SA's test.
despite a not very long straight, all supercars have reached, or at least approached, the claimed speed (including R8 V10, SLS, GT3). The LF-A was the only one almost 30 kph slower.... I do not think it's a coincidence.
I'd like to see a very detailed acceleration of the LF-A from 0 to 300 Kph, but I'm pretty sure the"problem" start @ last gearshift, with a very bad 270-300
I repeat, nothing scandalous, this fact that comes from a choice. Also, Auto wrote "high drag, the LF-A brakes hardly just relasing the accelerator, but the high-speed stability is really excellent"

 

[Guibo]

maybe LF-A'd be better, but honestly, I do not think it can do so much better.
although we have no an accurate acknowledgment, test @ Balocco has confirmed, approximately, the SA's test.

You are quite sure the test @ Balocco is 100% representative of the LFA's abilities? I'm not so sure. On a medium-speed corner of ~200 kph at Balocco, the LFA was 20 kph slower than the LP670 and the 458. Based on what we know of same-day testing at Laguna Seca in Motor Trend, where the LFA was on non-optimum pressure while the 458 was on optimum pressures and MPSS, this result should be next to impossible. Seems as if you are using one very likely flawed test and supporting it with another that also has some questionable data.
The same-day testing against the R8 V10 shows the LFA to be very close to the Audi all the way to 184 mph. The Sport Auto data suggests that the LFA would require around 8 more seconds of sustained acceleration to reach a similar speed with the R8 V10. This sounds very improbable. The LFA does have high drag, but so does the R8 V10 Spyder, which weighs considerably more, has less power, more drivetrain loss, no gearing advantage in 6th, slower manual gearshift, yet is somehow 6-7 seconds faster in the final 30 kph spread.

 

[Mafalda]

You are quite sure the test @ Balocco is 100% representative of the LFA's abilities? I'm not so sure. On a medium-speed corner of ~200 kph at Balocco, the LFA was 20 kph slower than the LP670 and the 458. Based on what we know of same-day testing at Laguna Seca in Motor Trend, where the LFA was on non-optimum pressure while the 458 was on optimum pressures and MPSS, this result should be next to impossible. Seems as if you are using one very likely flawed test and supporting it with another that also has some questionable data.
The same-day testing against the R8 V10 shows the LFA to be very close to the Audi all the way to 184 mph. The Sport Auto data suggests that the LFA would require around 8 more seconds of sustained acceleration to reach a similar speed with the R8 V10. This sounds very improbable. The LFA does have high drag, but so does the R8 V10 Spyder, which weighs considerably more, has less power, more drivetrain loss, no gearing advantage in 6th, slower manual gearshift, yet is somehow 6-7 seconds faster in the final 30 kph spread.

about straight line... yes, I'm quite sure, because Auto did usual results (100 kph 4.2s, 200 Kph 12.0s, 255 Kph 21.3s), not so fast, not so slow, and at the same time, they have confirmed some trouble to smash 300 kph.
surely is not usual 100-255 17s and 255-300... almost 30s, but, I repeat, one bad test'd be unluky, two test ... maybe not
Now I'd try to ask if Auto have more telemetry (0-280/290)....

 

[Levi68]

This video has been posted before of 0 - 285 km/h on the LFA NE. Though, much of the time he is not full throttle and short shifts every gear, but it gets up there very very easily inspite of that massive wing on the back.

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Well this time, 0-280 km/h takes about 30 sec.

0-260 km/h: 20.0 sec
0-280 km/h: 30.0 sec (+10.0 s = 50 %)
0-300 km/h: 52.5 sec (+12.5 s = 75 %)

0-Vmax: 105.0 sec (+52.5 sec = 100 %)

0-1000 m: 21.2 sec @ 260 km/h (fastestlaps)

Approx (I don't know if its accurate):

20 sec @ 260 km/h = 1000 m
30 sec @ 280 km/h = 1500 m (+50 %)
50 sec @ 300 km/h = 2625 m (+75 %)

105 sec @ 325 km/h = 5250 m (+100 %)

It is not accurate, but it may be true. The LFA does not have enough torque for high speed acceleration when the drag is so high. Nonetheless it does not make the LFA a lesser car, because any drag car is modded, and on open roads, even the autobahn, it is not that easy to drive above 250 km/h. The LFA has proved itsself on track and in driving experience, just like the GT86, notbeing fast or powerful, but so praised.

 

[330CIZHP]

The Balocco test was a joke. So ridiculously bad, it was laughable to be completely honest.

The fact that they managed to get one of the best track performing car of all times to go slower than an old 2002 Lamborghini Gallardo (with 500 HP) was laughably bad. Atleast make it look reasonable.

You are quite sure the test @ Balocco is 100% representative of the LFA's abilities? I'm not so sure. On a medium-speed corner of ~200 kph at Balocco, the LFA was 20 kph slower than the LP670 and the 458. Based on what we know of same-day testing at Laguna Seca in Motor Trend, where the LFA was on non-optimum pressure while the 458 was on optimum pressures and MPSS, this result should be next to impossible. Seems as if you are using one very likely flawed test and supporting it with another that also has some questionable data.
The same-day testing against the R8 V10 shows the LFA to be very close to the Audi all the way to 184 mph. The Sport Auto data suggests that the LFA would require around 8 more seconds of sustained acceleration to reach a similar speed with the R8 V10. This sounds very improbable. The LFA does have high drag, but so does the R8 V10 Spyder, which weighs considerably more, has less power, more drivetrain loss, no gearing advantage in 6th, slower manual gearshift, yet is somehow 6-7 seconds faster in the final 30 kph spread.

Did you not sense that much of the video was going part throttle and shifting well short of redline?

Yeah, it takes only roughly 30 seconds for it to do 0 - 285 km/h in that video. Straight line speed is a huge a part of LFA's tuning on the Nurburgring since it is the highest speed race track in the world and the most dangerous. It was tuned entirely on Nurburgring.

Like I stated before in the video, he was part throttle most of the video and short shift in every gear (he shifted from 1st to 2nd at 7800 rpm rather than closer to 9500 rpm dropping down to 6000 rpm in 2nd gear). Look at how in 1st gear the rpm needle is not even moving that much in the first part of the video.

The point of me posting the video was that inspite of going part throttle in the video and short shifting in every gear, still it easily gets up to 285 km/h in no time effortlessly with that massive wing on the back.

Now that you have mentioned, it shows inspite of all of that it took only ~ 30 seconds for it to get to 285 km/h. In full attack mode, with launch control and a good surface it would have been way quicker.

Well this time, 0-280 km/h takes about 30 sec.

0-260 km/h: 20.0 sec
0-280 km/h: 30.0 sec (+10.0 s = 50 %)
0-300 km/h: 52.5 sec (+12.5 s = 75 %)

0-Vmax: 105.0 sec (+52.5 sec = 100 %)

0-1000 m: 21.2 sec @ 260 km/h (fastestlaps)

Approx (I don't know if its accurate):

20 sec @ 260 km/h = 1000 m
30 sec @ 280 km/h = 1500 m (+50 %)
50 sec @ 300 km/h = 2625 m (+75 %)

105 sec @ 325 km/h = 5250 m (+100 %)

It is not accurate, but it may be true. The LFA does not have enough torque for high speed acceleration when the drag is so high. Nonetheless it does not make the LFA a lesser car, because any drag car is modded, and on open roads, even the autobahn, it is not that easy to drive above 250 km/h. The LFA has proved itsself on track and in driving experience, just like the GT86, notbeing fast or powerful, but so praised.

 

[Levi68]

What I want to see is an LFA with Michelin Pilot SuperSport tires, and a good driver, doing a 0-V-max, all this recorded on vbox.

 

[330CIZHP]

What I want to see is an LFA with Michelin Pilot SuperSport tires, and a good driver, doing a 0-V-max, all this recorded on vbox.

You nailed it right on the head. That is exactly what I would like to see. Although MPSS would not really happen, but a nice flat runway with good grip like where they conducted the R8 V10 test looks great.

Magazines are too unreliable and inconsistent.

For example, Sport Auto super test on Dottinger Hoe uphill straight climb got 275 km/h out of the LFA with an exit speed out of the previous corner of 135 km/h (the very same LFA they did the top speed run on) and I can post a video right here of rookie Alden Hadzagic on his very first test drive of LFA ever with an exit speed out of the corner of 120 km/h, getting up to 274 km/h on Dottinger hoe (ofcourse, on video VBOX telemetry) once the IS-F pace car gave him green light to blast past him.

I don't think anyone can come up with a convincing answer as to how a professional like Horst Von Saurma with a far higher 15 km/h exit speed on to the straight uphill climb got only what a rookie test driver got out of the LFA on his very first drive with a much slower corner exit speed.

 

[Levi68]

The Michelin PSS are now the best sport tires availabe, without going semi-slick. Michelin PSC+ are some of the best slick, the Porsches 911 GT3/GT2 use them. I don't understand why BMW M did not put the PSC+ on the GTS and the PSS on the CRT. Just look what the PSS did to the 458 Italia compared to the Pirelli tires.

 

[330CIZHP]

The Michelin PSS are now the best sport tires availabe, without going semi-slick. Michelin PSC+ are some of the best slick, the Porsches 911 GT3/GT2 use them. I don't understand why BMW M did not put the PSC+ on the GTS and the PSS on the CRT. Just look what the PSS did to the 458 Italia compared to the Pirelli tires.

Yeah, I agree. PSS are the best tires right now. Unfortunately, Lexus contracted Bridgestone to supply the tires for LFA and LFA NE. Ferrari had done that for 458 Italia, but they nuked Bridgestone after being disappointed with the S001 tires and went to MPSS (S001 are still the OEM on LFA). Although, the best decision should have been to get the Michelin Pilot SS tires. The NE Potenza are decently high-grip rated tires, though.

 

[Guibo]

about straight line... yes, I'm quite sure, because Auto did usual results (100 kph 4.2s, 200 Kph 12.0s, 255 Kph 21.3s), not so fast, not so slow, and at the same time, they have confirmed some trouble to smash 300 kph.
surely is not usual 100-255 17s and 255-300... almost 30s, but, I repeat, one bad test'd be unluky, two test ... maybe not

And they have some trouble to keep the LFA within 20 kph of the 458 on the straight of the Balocco track, so...?
Which single test show 100-255 in 17s, but 255-300 in almost 30s? The problem for you is that the LFA still remains ~2s faster in 240-260 than the XKR-S, which is a 43s car in 0-300. Is it likely that the LFA will suddenly fall off in 260-280? I doubt that, since the LFA will be hitting its peak hp at that point. Indeed, the Battle of the Supercars episodes shows that the LFA is clearly a match for the R8 V10 at high speeds. I mean, do you honestly think it took the LFA 8 more seconds of sustained acceleration compared to the R8 V10 (also a <43s car in 0-300)?
For the LFA to lose to the XKR-S by 7 seconds, it would need a net loss of around 9 seconds in that final 20 kph stretch. The drag is likely not so different between them. Jaguar claim 0.33 for the regular XK. Sport Auto measured 0.35 for CdxA of 0.726. The XKR-S is said to be worse (0.34 claimed). Aside from weighing over 200 kilos more, its transmission is a slushbox automatic and its 6th gear is very tall (2.28:1 vs the LFA's 3.44:1). It will be in this gear for the final 9 kph as the video shows.

For example, Sport Auto super test on Dottinger Hoe uphill straight climb got 275 km/h out of the LFA with an exit speed out of the previous corner of 135 km/h (the very same LFA they did the top speed run on) and I can post a video right here of rookie Alden Hadzagic on his very first test drive of LFA ever with an exit speed out of the corner of 120 km/h, getting up to 274 km/h on Dottinger hoe (ofcourse, on video VBOX telemetry) once the IS-F pace car gave him green light to blast past him.
I don't think anyone can come up with a convincing answer as to how a professional like Horst Von Saurma with a far higher 15 km/h exit speed on to the straight uphill climb got only what a rookie test driver got out of the LFA on his very first drive with a much slower corner exit speed.

And even Ben Barry hit 274 with the normal LFA while following the pace car. And this is interesting to compare to HvS on 2 counts: In the lead up corner, he starts from as low as 111 kph and reaches 128 kph where most drivers reach their minimum speed (by which point HvS is 7 kph faster than he is). His peak of 274 is reached at the bottom of the uphill climb which is way, way before most drivers lift/brake for the kink (if they brake at all); he sees he's about to overtake the IS-F pace car and immediately loses 34 kph. Even a Z06 in a very tall 5th gear that puts it nowhere near its power peak can gain 4-5 kph here. How HvS can only gain 1 kph despite a faster entry speed, plus about 1/3rd more of the straight with which to accelerate is pretty baffling. Lexus's test driver, even goofing off with Ben Barry on the straight, managed 282 kph in the NRE where HvS could only do 2 kph more with no passenger.

 

[Levi68]

Could this be an anti-LFA conspiracy? Everywhere on the internet there is only hate for the LFA. Or maybe the drivers don't dare to floor the pedal, 9.5K is just scary. Imagine you driving it, the sound may just paralise you.

If the LFA was really that slow it woulld not manage the N-Ring time of 7.38 min, like the first time of the 458 Italia also 7.38 min. According to Lexus, the LFA NE is "only" 7 sec faster. For the LFA/LFA NE to do the N-Ring under 7:30 min, it just can't be that slow. I guess we'll never know the truth unless somebody does it seriously.

 

[330CIZHP]

This should settle it once and for all. There should be no doubt left.

Scott Pruett here on an oval track (less ideal than a flat runway since the steering wheel is turned the whole time, initial incline) with the added weight of a passenger getting up to 178 mph (286 km/h) in what looks like around 28 seconds. The margin of speedo error for LFA is (5 mph at 185 mph according to Evo) so at 178 mph, GPS reading would be no less than 174 mph (280 km/h)

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[330CIZHP]

Could this be an anti-LFA conspiracy? Everywhere on the internet there is only hate for the LFA. Or maybe the drivers don't dare to floor the pedal, 9.5K is just scary. Imagine you driving it, the sound may just paralise you.

If the LFA was really that slow it woulld not manage the N-Ring time of 7.38 min, like the first time of the 458 Italia also 7.38 min. According to Lexus, the LFA NE is "only" 7 sec faster. For the LFA/LFA NE to do the N-Ring under 7:30 min, it just can't be that slow. I guess we'll never know the truth unless somebody does it seriously.

No one in the USA can drive the Lexus LFA better than Scott Pruett. This man truly is one with the car like Akira Iida or Kinoshita.

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[330CIZHP]

Over the weekend, Gazoo Lexus LFA won the SP8 class race in the VLN Nurburgring endurance race series (#2 Aston Martin Vantage, #3 Ferrari F430, #4 Aston Martin Zagato, #5 Ferrari 458 Italia ) and placed #12 overall

Klasse: SP8
Gestartet: 7 Gewertet: 5 Nicht gewertet: 2

1 152 SP8

B Gazoo Racing
F Kinoshita Takayuki, Japan
F Akira Iida, Japan
F Wakisaka Juichi, Japan
Lexus LFA
J119569631000
J133989200220
J334148100130
24 3:38:04.208
160.918
8:34.135
170.633
13

2 144 SP8

B Aston Martin Test Centre
F Braun Michael, Flörsheim
F Cate Peter, Großbritannien
F Schuhbauer Wolfgang, Brilon
Aston Martin Vantage
IC1058097
GB8547
IC1046194
22 3:37:44.813
147.727
2 Rd.
2 Rd.
8:59.784
162.525
20

3 155 SP8


B Roadrunner Racing GmbH
F Ekstrand Torbjörn, Schweden
F Schmidtmann Dieter, Mechernich
Ferrari 430
S197006110097
IC1131326
21 3:42:24.999
138.051
3 Rd.
1 Rd.
9:08.511
159.939
17

4 146 SP8


B Aston Martin Test Centre
F Bez Dr. Ulrich, Großbritannien
F Porritt Chris, Großbritannien
F Schuhbauer Wolfgang, Brilon
F Meaden Richard, Großbritannien
Aston Martin Zagato
IC1064984
GB81102
IC1046194
GB77874
20 3:36:19.554
135.179
4 Rd.
1 Rd.
9:10.278
159.426
12

5 458 SP8


B Tin Tag Racing
F Kohlhaas Christian, Andernach
F Mattschull Alexander, Bad Homburg
Ferrari F458
IC1039674
IC1037283
16 2:41:57.167
144.451
8 Rd.
4 Rd.
8:46.510
166.622


http://www.vln.de/rennen.gb.php?id=2012-04-28#

 

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