LFA [Official] Lexus LF-A Supercar (Production Version)

[Monster]

It's very odd but mass produced cars are generally more reliable than handbuilt ones, now I'm not necessarily suggesting that the LFA will be unreliable only that it mightn't be as good as the rest of the range that's all.

Humm I don't know really, I mean after 10 years of intensive design and development by a group of extremely talented and passionate engineers, countless testing laps and a 24h race around the most punishing race track in the world, plus each bespoke part is painstakingly made by hand or made in house by specially designed machines, not to mention everything has to meet the standards set by the world's most reliable car manufacturer, funded by one of the world's largest companies......... the car is definitely going to fall apart and burst into a dangerous ball of carbon fiber and titanium shards, in the same manner as someone's brain, just suggesting.

 

[330CIZHP]

The LFA should be chepear, it can't compete with the F12 or SLS.

I guess monster had hinted already. However, no one can say anything about the F12 as it has not priced yet for all anyone knows it might cost twice as much. LFA's production run ends even befor the F12 makes it into the market.

Saying LFA cannot compete with the SLS is the most ridiculous thing considering it has won every comparison against the SLS AMG and comprehensively won on driving dynamics and track performance credentials. In the case of AutoZeitung Germany comparison, it boiled down to a track oriented car being compared to a GT car. Just a couple of posts above the American stig laptime of LFA shows it a full 5 second faster than the SLS AMG and 1 secon quicker than the 458 Italia.

Furthermore, LFA reliability inspite of being a 9500 rpm exotic supercar never undermines the fact that it is a Lexus. For someone who has made even marginal attempt to exercise due diligence will know both tue American and European production press cars have hard track driven 30,000+ miles on them and according to Scott Pruett who put most of those miles, it has never even missed a beat.

 

[Deckhook]

Humm I don't know really, I mean after 10 years of intensive design and development by a group of extremely talented and passionate engineers, countless testing laps and a 24h race around the most punishing race track in the world, plus each bespoke part is painstakingly made by hand or made in house by specially designed machines, not to mention everything has to meet the standards set by the world's most reliable car manufacturer, funded by one of the world's largest companies......... the car is definitely going to fall apart and burst into a dangerous ball of carbon fiber and titanium shards, in the same manner as someone's brain, just suggesting.

It was a general statement comparing handbuilt vs mass produced, I'm not actually saying LFA will be less reliable than the rest only that it might be less reliable. I'm willing to bet of all handbuilt cars it will be at the top of JDPower just like their other models.

 

[Giannis]

It was a general statement comparing handbuilt vs mass produced, I'm not actually saying LFA will be less reliable than the rest only that it might be less reliable. I'm willing to bet of all handbuilt cars it will be at the top of JDPower just like their other models.

That is a generalization that could start a flaming war in this thread. I suspect that it would be better of in a new thread in the Internal Combustion section.

 

[speed_kills]

I guess monster had hinted already. However, no one can say anything about the F12 as it has not priced yet for all anyone knows it might cost twice as much. LFA's production run ends even befor the F12 makes it into the market.

Saying LFA cannot compete with the SLS is the most ridiculous thing considering it has won every comparison against the SLS AMG and comprehensively won on driving dynamics and track performance credentials. In the case of AutoZeitung Germany comparison, it boiled down to a track oriented car being compared to a GT car. Just a couple of posts above the American stig laptime of LFA shows it a full 5 second faster than the SLS AMG and 1 secon quicker than the 458 Italia.

Furthermore, LFA reliability inspite of being a 9500 rpm exotic supercar never undermines the fact that it is a Lexus. For someone who has made even marginal attempt to exercise due diligence will know both tue American and European production press cars have hard track driven 30,000+ miles on them and according to Scott Pruett who put most of those miles, it has never even missed a beat.

I talk before checking the stats. Didn't know it was only 500 made.
The SLS vs LFA is more about brand recognition, but with only 500, that's not a problem. The SLS is not has harcore and Autozening are right.
Don't know how the LF-A compare with the 599, if that was the intended target of the LF-A. I think it also for marketing porpuses for their F-line.

 

[Deckhook]

That is a generalization that could start a flaming war in this thread. I suspect that it would be better of in a new thread in the Internal Combustion section.

If you feel that will happen then delete it as it wasn't my intent only to highlight something I have heard from people that happen to own such machines.

 

[Levi68]

If you feel that will happen then delete it as it wasn't my intent only to highlight something I have heard from people that happen to own such machines.

???????


You know someone who owns an LFA and he had problems?

I know someone that owned a brand new F430, and one evening when he drove to a restaurant to eat with his colleges, wanting to show-off a bit, it broke down. He arrived there late by taxi. Now he owns a Porsche. Not saying Ferrari is bad or anything, maybe he was unlucky or can't drive, but FIAT (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Fiat) are not known to be reliable. Jaguars and Aston Martins are not the best either, and even the cars of the very meticulous Ron Denis, had problems. It is forgivable as it is only the beginning, I am sure that they will be better.

I am not saying the LFA will never brake down, but mass produced Lexus being reliable, the LFA having been tested for so long time, and every piece has been meticulously engineered, I think it is one of the most reliable exotics ever, and even more reliable and of better quality that any other car. And seing how the car industry goes, I doubt we'll see anything that good, unless there will be an LFA II.

 

[Deckhook]

^Not the LFA, handbuilt exotics.

 

[Giannis]

Don't get any more off topic please. If you want to discuss this, just create a new thread.

 

[Levi68]

LFA: 0-300 km/h?

This thread is full of comparisions of all types. I don't want to bring any x vs. y thing or discuss the sense of the LFA, but what is known, is that the LFA is not a straght line rocket. Compared to the Lamborghini it lacks torque and AWD and compared to the Ferrari it lack F1-hightech.

But looking for 0-300 km/h time, I find nothing better than 50 sec. How is that possible? It is just too bad. Here is the known vid of the LFA 0-260 km/h time. Launch is not perfect, but it manages to reach 260 km/h in about 20 sec.

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How can it need another 30 sec to get from 260 km/h to 300 km/h, when topspeed is 325 km/h? 6 th gear too long?

 

[Mafalda]

yes 0-300 50s cause very high drag and long gear ratio.
another confirm comes from Auto (It): when they tested the LF-A, 0-255 was good (21.3s), but top speed @ Balocco was just 296 Kph (in the same high speed oval the Avendator did 352 Kph !!)": "It can surely do better, but the LF-A needs several Kms to accel. to 325 Kph"

Lexus LFA: La macchina del tempo - LFA - Lexus - Prova - Auto

 

[Levi68]

What could be done to improve its time? Shorter 6th gear and 7th gear for top speed? Dual clutch transmission?

 

[330CIZHP]

The 6th gear overall reduction is already 3.45:1 so the 6th gear is already too short even factoring in it is overdrive. The video you posted already shows the speed of the shifts so that is not an issue considering cars like 435 HP 997.2 GT3 with a 6 speed manual get to 300 km/h in less than 45 seconds.

The Maclaren SLR 300 km/h numbers for example, vary massively across several tests from 30 seconds all the way to 38 seconds.

There is simply insufficient data and the result is inconclusive. One test does not tell anything since wind drag is a huge factor that can skew the results especially on oval track where the car is driving at a steep angle. That 50 sec 0 - 300 km/h was equally as bad as the 4.5 seconds 0 - 100 km/h SA got. It is well known it is over a full second off the pace with proper launch control on a proper surface. Also, inspite of the high downforce, it is common sense it will never take a 553 HP car 30 seconds to get another 40 km/h.

Some Japanese testers took LFA last year to the German AutoBahn and they said it could crack 300 km/h on the GPS very quickly without even feeling like it was going over 300 km/h.


The video you posted is from Motorsports France. Their test data for that particular test was 0 - 100 km/h in 4.4 seconds (it was freezing zero degree temperatures that day in Feb. 2010) so launching was very difficult as the computer was cutting back power and 0 - 260 km/h comes in 21 seconds so 100 - 260 km/h arrives in 16.x seconds.

What could be done to improve its time? Shorter 6th gear and 7th gear for top speed? Dual clutch transmission?

 

[Mafalda]

The 6th gear overall reduction is already 3.45:1 so the 6th gear is already too short even factoring in it is overdrive. The video you posted already shows the speed of the shifts so that is not an issue considering cars like 435 HP 997.2 GT3 with a 6 speed manual get to 300 km/h in less than 45 seconds.

The Maclaren SLR 300 km/h numbers for example, vary massively across several tests from 30 seconds all the way to 38 seconds.

There is simply insufficient data and the result is inconclusive. One test does not tell anything since wind drag is a huge factor that can skew the results especially on oval track where the car is driving at a steep angle. That 50 sec 0 - 300 km/h was equally as bad as the 4.5 seconds 0 - 100 km/h SA got. Everyone knows it is over a full second off the pace with proper launch control on a proper surface. Also, inspite of the high downforce, it is common sense it will never take a 553 HP car 30 seconds to get another 40 km/h.

Some Japanese testers took LFA last year to the German AutoBahn and they said it could crack 300 km/h on the GPS very quickly without even feeling like it was 300 km/h.


BTW, the video you posted is from Motorsports France. Their test data for that particular test was 0 - 100 km/h in 4.4 seconds (it was freezing zero degree temperatures that day in Feb. 2010) so launching was very difficult as the computer was cutting back power and 0 - 260 km/h comes in 21 seconds so 100 - 260 km/h arrives in 16.x seconds.

if you cut half second @ start, the 0-300 wil magically go down from 50.6s to 50.1s....

260=/=300

 

[Monster]

This thread is full of comparisions of all types. I don't want to bring any x vs. y thing or discuss the sense of the LFA, but what is known, is that the LFA is not a straght line rocket. Compared to the Lamborghini it lacks torque and AWD and compared to the Ferrari it lack F1-hightech.

The LFA's V10 engine is F1 high tech right there.

 

[Mafalda]

What could be done to improve its time? Shorter 6th gear and 7th gear for top speed? Dual clutch transmission?

Lexus did its choice: more drag, with more stabilty and grip, and less acceleration @ high speed.
LF-a has not the 7yh gear
to accelerate faster high high speed it need:
- shorter gear ratio (LF-A N.E. got it)
- less drag
- full active rear wing (MP4-12, Bugatti Veyron)

 

[330CIZHP]

if you cut half second @ start, the 0-300 wil magically go down from 50.6s to 50.1s....

260=/=300

Yeah, I know. All I am saying is that the test is inconclusive. It will never take a car another 30 seconds to get from 260 km/h - 300 km/h no matter what with 553 HP power. It defies common sense especially when a 415 GT3 with a massive wing taller 6th gear and 6 speed manual has done 300 km in 47 seconds.

 

[Mafalda]

- french sport auto did 0-260 21.0 thanks to very low temp, Aport Auto did 0-300 50.6s with a standard temp....
- Auto, in standard condition, did 0-255 21.3
- Auto confirms how the LF-A accelerates slow @ high speed
- GT3 has a very good CxS
- ... @ high speed, the Bugatti SS (without high speed key) accelerats as fast as the standard Veyron (with high speed key), despite +200ps..

 

[330CIZHP]

I completely and totally understand what you are saying. You are also correct that the LFA NE will hit 300 km/h much more easily than the standard LFA with the shorter 2 - 6th gear inspite of Lexus' official claims that acceleration is identical due to greater downforce.

However, sorry I am not buying it taking ~ 30 seconds to gain another 40 km/h with 553 HP and a 3.45:1 6th gear overall reduction. I don't what the number would be, but certainly it will not be ~ 30 seconds unless there is a very significant uphill gradient. I am sure if Motorsport France had done 0 - 300 km/h instead of 0 - 260 km/h, it would definitely not be 50.x.

The variation I specified of SLR with 626 PS being from 30 seconds - 38 seconds is proof enough of how highly inconsistent those numbers can be.

- french sport auto did 0-260 21.0 thanks to very low temp, Aport Auto did 0-300 50.6s with a standard temp....
- Auto, in standard condition, did 0-255 21.3
- Auto confirms how the LF-A accelerates slow @ high speed
- GT3 has a very good CxS
- ... @ high speed, the Bugatti SS (without high speed key) accelerats as fast as the standard Veyron (with high speed key), despite +200ps..

 

[Guibo]

- french sport auto did 0-260 21.0 thanks to very low temp, Aport Auto did 0-300 50.6s with a standard temp....
- Auto, in standard condition, did 0-255 21.3

MotorSport France did the 0-1km in 21.2s @ 260 kph, very low temps. Is that so different from Auto's standard conditions of 21.3 @ 255? It's a little faster, sure but not so huge as the differences I will describe below.

The reason I think the 0-300 time in Sport Auto for the LFA looks strange is because
1) The SLS in the same test did 0-300 in 42.2, which is 5s slower than it has done in other tests.
2) The Jaguar XKR-S, which has a bit less power, also only 6-speeds, but weighs over 200kg more than the LFA can beat the LFA by over 7 seconds to 300 kph? (43.4 vs 50.6)

Here is that blue German press XKR-S, doing a 70-300 kph run.
Jaguar XKR-S im Test: Kätzchen oder Raubkatze? - SPORT AUTO

It appears to be the same XKR-S (same plate) as the one in the Sport Auto 0-300 test at Papenburg in 2011. In the published test, it did 200-300 in 30.1s. In the video of the speedometer, it appears to be slighly faster, about 26.7. If we assume some speedometer error, it might be similar performance, maybe shot in better conditions than at Papenburg? Who knows. In any event, the video shows a 200-260 kph time of around 11.2s. The LFA in the MotorSport France video seems much faster, closer to 9 seconds flat. How likely, then, is it that the LFA would suddenly be so much slower than the XKR-S in the final 40 kph spread, when it was already so much faster in 200-260? In the final 20 kph spread (240-260), I measure about 3.3s for the LFA and 5.1 for the XKR-S so the Lexus is still clearly faster even this late into the speed range. At worst, we should expect the LFA to be only merely as fast as the XKR-S in the overall 200-300 kph spread. That means around 26.7-30.1s and a 0-300 kph time of around 40s. The odds of it being some 2s faster in 200-260, still around 2s faster in 240-260, but then suddenly losing 9 whole seconds in the final 40 kph spread seems pretty far fetched.

The GT3 does have very good CdA (0.58), but the GT3 RS 4.0 does not. At 0.71, it's not all that far off from the LFA's 0.78. It still has a manual shift and 50 less hp than the LFA, yet is 9 faster in 200-300? Doesn't sound likely.

Another comparison to consider: In the Battle of the Supercars episode between the LFA and the R8 V10, the LFA proved to be just about as fast in a straight line. The two recorded very similar high speed figures.

Standing mile
LFA: 30.58s @ 167 mph
R8 V10: 30.64s @ 166.1 mph

Top speed
LFA: 184.1 mph
R8 V10: 185.1

Here's a video of an R8 V10 Spyder with manual transmission doing 0-300 in 43s by Sport Auto France:

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The standard coupe has not a great aero figure, at 0.729. It's down on power to the LFA, probably suffers more drivetrain loss, weighs 100 kilos more. If the Spyder version can reach 300 kph in 43 seconds, then the LFA should be able to as well.