F12berlinetta [Official] Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

[Levi68]

 

[tristatez28lt1]

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[Bruce]

Great sounding car. It too, is a great looking car.

Nice to see a classical rebirth in Ferrari design. I agree when Clarkson said that there has been a properly 'pretty' Ferrari in ages - since the 575 Maranello as far as I'm concerned - but the F12, that's another story. What a stunner. Got those classic lines of the Maranello with some definite 275 GTB rear-end styling cues. I really want to see it another colour other than red. Despite the classic red being Ferrari's halmark, I have almost always hated it on not just Ferrari's but any car.

 

[Soup]

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[Guibo]

..memories...

More than balanced by these memories:

The LFA is massively outgunned by the F12 and more expensive, too, but we think it's more than the sum of its beautiful carbon and titanium parts, and not even the F12's V12 feels as special as that searing 552bhp 4.8-litre V10. Its £340,000 and its gearbox is simply outclasses by the F12's, and yet we wouldn't like to say which is the most involving drivers' car without trying them back to back. The LFA is really that good."

 

[klier]

I'd go with the F12 in the end, but the LFA is brilliant no doubt

 

[Mafalda]

More than balanced by these memories:

never said "LFA is boring to drive"
contrary, some users talks about its gearbox as one of the best ever... (proved by 50*100 pixels ghrapics)
end of OT

 

[330CIZHP]

never said "LFA is boring to drive"
contrary, some users talks about its gearbox as one of the best ever... (proved by 50*100 pixels ghrapics)
end of OT

No one ever claimed it was the "best box ever". Just ridiculous. No one ever said, it was as quick as any dual clutch box (ofcourse, more reliable and more robust that means nothing in magazine terms, no doubt). As a matter of fact, I have read multiple owner's experiences and the actual owners have been very happy with the gearbox.

To keep this thread from going off-topic, it was just your negative connotations based on one biased Italian magazine subjective opinion you hold as the holy grail really put blinders on your perspective resulting in overly selective arguments on your part that got terribly contradicted by scientific facts. That is all. Nothing more and nothing else.

 

[Mafalda]

No one ever claimed it was the "best box ever". Just ridiculous. No one ever said, it was as quick as any dual clutch box (ofcourse, more reliable and more robust, no doubt). As a matter of fact, I have read multiple owner's experiences and the actual owners have been very happy with the gearbox.

To keep this thread from going off-topic, it was just your negative connotations based on one biased Italian magazine subjective opinion you hold as the holy grail really put blinders on your perspective resulting in overly selective arguments on your part that got terribly contradicted by scientific facts. That is all. Nothing more and nothing else.

looking the topic topic of the LF-A, recently my concerns about its gearxob were clearly attacked, and as evidence included "accurate" (50x100 pixels) charts that demonstrate its speed.
you have always fiercely rejected any kind of doubt about the LF-A, worst if criticized .. therefore, if a car can not be criticized, it must be perfect ...
just one italian magazine criticized it? informed first, then write, please

and about subjective opinion... amazing engine-sound or amazing to drive are subjective too..

 

[330CIZHP]

For one, those "small graphic charts" were satellite telemtry data taken from video VBOX so you yet again stand corrected on that, which is used as a standard in the industry.

It is just that you were singling LFA out. You clearly used selective argument when you never brought up any other single-clutch gearbox until shiploads of comments were put up criticizing other similar gearboxes.

You should really not be using the Evo comment as a vehicle for your bitterness from the argument you had lost in the LFA thread. This is a F12 thread has nothing to do with the LFA and you should respect that.

looking the topic topic of the LF-A, recently my concerns about its gearxob were clearly attacked, and as evidence included "accurate" (50x100 pixels) charts that demonstrate its speed.
you have always fiercely rejected any kind of doubt about the LF-A, worst if criticized .. therefore, if a car can not be criticized, it must be perfect ...
just one italian magazine criticized it? informed first, then write, please

 

[Mafalda]

For one, those "small graphic charts" were satellite telemtry data taken from video VBOX so you yet again stand corrected on that.

It is just that you were singling LFA out. You clearly used selective argument when you never brought up any other single-clutch gearbox until shiploads of comments were put up criticizing other gearboxes.

You should really stop using this thread as a vehicle for your bitterness from the argument you had lost in the LFA thread. This thread has nothing to do with the LFA and you should respect that.

say it to Levi68

 

[Guibo]

never said "LFA is boring to drive"
contrary, some users talks about its gearbox as one of the best ever... (proved by 50*100 pixels ghrapics)
end of OT

What you said was that it was the most pointless, useless supercar ever. "Nothing special." Which users talk about its gearbox as the best one ever? There's a big difference between saying "it's the best one ever" vs saying "it's not 4x's slower than Gallardo e-Gear." How do you explain the "50x100 pixels" graphs showing no slower shift speed than e-Gear and comparable to 599 GTB? The article you quote spoke of old Alfa Selespeed or whatever...care to compare LFA gearchange vs Alfa 8C? The GTO and Aventador gearboxes are rated lower than 458 too and both cost more than 458. Yet, you seem not to care.

 

[Mafalda]

What you said was that it was the most pointless, useless supercar ever. "Nothing special." Which users talk about its gearbox as the best one ever? There's a big difference between saying "it's the best one ever" vs saying "it's not 4x's slower than Gallardo e-Gear." How do you explain the "50x100 pixels" graphs showing no slower shift speed than e-Gear and comparable to 599 GTB? The article you quote spoke of old Alfa Selespeed or whatever...care to compare LFA gearchange vs Alfa 8C? The GTO and Aventador gearboxes are rated lower than 458 too and both cost more than 458. Yet, you seem not to care.

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...f-a-supercar-production-version.31164/page-55
post #1090, when I wrote "The LF-A is not "slow", surely it'd be better with a faster gearbox, and an active rear wing, because the drag is very high"
..... for the nth time, I have been struck down ... if its can not be not only criticized, but not questioned, then it must be perfect..
contrary, @ post # 1103 you can see the "accurate" charts (especially the LF-A one...) where proves " In 1st to 2nd, both look very similar with almost no time for shift. However, in 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th, the Aventador is a smidge quicker (Guibo like this.) ....oppps.... effectively, ALL magazines, testing the Aventador, wrote "gearshifts are really quick, sometimes violent, remind me the LF-A"....
or, if I'm wrong, can you show me some post of yours where you wrote "effectively, it'd be improved"? ...ooops
the rest part of your post is your usual way to muddy the waters, when you don't know to write.
but I want to give you an answer: when QR tested the 8C, if I remeber as weel, about gearbox they write "It's good, but latest gearboxes are better", rate was **** 1/2 (max possible: ***** gold)
No triumphalistic comments (despite it's an italian magazine...) , but also not damning like "it seems like the 159's selespeed" ...
I look forward to the LF-A II, to read the comparison with its predecessor ...

 

[330CIZHP]

You are yet opening a pandora's box again through denying (or having a memory lapse) what you said in the past (you know fully well Guibo's ability to pull old posts out of the grave).

I seriously don't want to go back there. Case in point, you are the only person in the world who puts more emphasis on subjective impressions and opinions over hard factual statistical data collected through satellite telemetry when it suits your selective argument. It is like saying "I know car A feels faster than car B and person X keeps showing me this telemetry graph where it says they both are dead even and I believe the feeling is more accurate".

Randy Pobst did hate the LP700-4 transmission and said "at times, it shifts very slow" and "not as quick as I expected".

Funny, it reminded me of you when I recently was reading a review of Gallardo LP570-4 Trofeo Stradale with at the new Pirelli Corsa super-slick tires event and the professional tester said the transmission (driving back to back with MP4-12C) was "sluggish and slow". It made me laugh thinking back how you used to prop it up saying "no one criticizes the e-gear". Heck, the irony is rich where EVO albeit said "LFA's transmission is outclassed by F12", you do remember them also saying "LFA's transmission is better than the old Gallardo clunky e-gear transmission". Right???

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...f-a-supercar-production-version.31164/page-55
post #1090, when I wrote "The LF-A is not "slow", surely it'd be better with a faster gearbox, and an active rear wing, because the drag is very high"
..... for the nth time, I have been struck down ... if its can not be not only criticized, but not questioned, then it must be perfect..
contrary, @ post # 1103 you can see the "accurate" charts (especially the LF-A one...) where proves " In 1st to 2nd, both look very similar with almost no time for shift. However, in 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th, the Aventador is a smidge quicker (Guibo like this.) ....oppps.... effectively, ALL magazines, testing the Aventador, wrote "gearshifts are really quick, sometimes violent, remind me the LF-A"....
or, if I'm wrong, can you show me some post of yours where you wrote "effectively, it'd be improved"? ...ooops
the rest part of your post is your usual way to muddy the waters, when you don't know to write.
but I want to give you an answer: when QR tested the 8C, if I remeber as weel, about gearbox they write "It's good, but latest gearboxes are better", rate was **** 1/2 (max possible: ***** gold)
No triumphalistic comments (despite it's an italian magazine...) , but also not damning like "it seems like the 159's selespeed" ...
I look forward to the LF-A II, to read the comparison with its predecessor ...

 

[Guibo]

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...f-a-supercar-production-version.31164/page-55
post #1090, when I wrote "The LF-A is not "slow", surely it'd be better with a faster gearbox, and an active rear wing, because the drag is very high"
..... for the nth time, I have been struck down ... if its can not be not only criticized, but not questioned, then it must be perfect..
contrary, @ post # 1103 you can see the "accurate" charts (especially the LF-A one...) where proves " In 1st to 2nd, both look very similar with almost no time for shift. However, in 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th, the Aventador is a smidge quicker (Guibo like this.) ....oppps.... effectively, ALL magazines, testing the Aventador, wrote "gearshifts are really quick, sometimes violent, remind me the LF-A"....
or, if I'm wrong, can you show me some post of yours where you wrote "effectively, it'd be improved"? ...ooops
the rest part of your post is your usual way to muddy the waters, when you don't know to write.
but I want to give you an answer: when QR tested the 8C, if I remeber as weel, about gearbox they write "It's good, but latest gearboxes are better", rate was **** 1/2 (max possible: ***** gold)
No triumphalistic comments (despite it's an italian magazine...) , but also not damning like "it seems like the 159's selespeed" ...
I look forward to the LF-A II, to read the comparison with its predecessor ...

So if the Aventador is a smidge quicker, that makes the transmission automatically as good as 458, MP4-12C, or other DCTs? No, it doesn't. But of course it takes a person with an understanding of nuances between extremes to understand that.
There have been Aventador tests that indicate its transmission is nothing as quick as the latest DCTs. Autocar:
"It’s not a dual clutch system but it does pre-select ratios, so the effect is almost the same – in theory. In practice, however, it’s a long way from swapping ratios as quickly or as smoothly as a Ferrari 458 or McLaren MP4-12C."

C&D:
"compared with newer dual-clutch boxes in the Ferrari 458 and others, it still feels dated, especially around town when yawning torque holes between shifts cause passengers to bob and sway in their seats. Once in a while, in low-speed situations, the clutch bounces between slip and grip like a nervous first-time stick shifter."

Motor Trend:
"We universally loathed the Aventador's transmission. 'A major letdown,' notes MacKenzie. 'In Street mode, the shifts are slower than a wet weekend in Cleveland, and in Corsa, it's like you're getting hit in the back of the head with a shovel.' He ain't lying about either part. When left in full auto and Street mode, the Aventador's 'independent shifting rod' automated single-clutch manual is plain awful. Worse than the Aston Martin Vantage S and approaching Smart Fortwo levels of terribleness. Lambo claims it went with the ISR solution over a dual-clutch to save weight. Big mistake, say all of us."

Need I remind you that the Aventador costs more than the 458 or MP4-12C? I think I must, because you seem strangely quiet when this European car is slagged for its transmission.

Also note in that thread that I went beyond graphs and even posted the intermediate, GPS-sourced split times which suggest that the LFA is actually quicker than the 599 GTB HGTE in its shifts:
http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...-production-version.31164/page-56#post-586007

Alfa 8C vs LFA, as measured by Road & Track. The Alfa isn't anywhere really close, looking more like a pure manual transmission:

No triumphalistic comments, yet the pro-Italian rating from the Italian mag says it all. R&T on the other hand, as you know, is an American magazine so you can't claim patriotism is behind their findings.

50x150 pixes? No, try 821x619:
http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...r-production-version.31164/reply?quote=586088

Still missing from your post mafalda: Someone who says the LFA transmission is the best ever. Mafalda, I've never said the LFA transmission can't be improved for speed and smoothness. The question is: Does that really matter? Is it in keeping with the visceral feel the engineers wanted for the LFA? Think about why many street Lexus vehicles have comfortable, adaptive dampers, yet the LFA's are fixed-rate non-adjustable (outside of normal settings like toe, caster, camber, etc).
Secondly, does it appear to you that the LFA's transmission speeds are 4x's slower than eGear?

 

[Levi68]

Need a new wallpaper?

View attachment f3f2a49e0d573d641ed2654236c94275.jpg

 

[Soup]

 

[Soup]

Ultimate Fantasy 1: 2013 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

With sincere apologizes to Messieurs Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, and Pagani, a car magazine without a Ferrari gracing its pages could not possibly have the word "Fantasies" emblazoned on its cover. Simply put, there are fantasy cars and then there are Ferraris. In the presence of a Maranello masterpiece, every other marque loses some of its luster. Even Ferrari's hometown is a cross between an automotive Vatican and a flat-plane-crank version of Vegas, with gift shops, shrines, and museums celebrating the prancing horse. Devotees fumble with their cameras every time a red sports car screams down the narrow streets, turning unleaded holy water into the holiest of hydrocarbons.

Driving a Ferrari is a fantasy that relatively few folks will ever fulfill. Actually owning a Ferrari is reserved for the elite few. But it is only the luckiest people on earth who are able to drive a preproduction version of Ferrari's latest creation. Who can resist the fanfare of the Ferrari fantasy? Especially when you're invited to a private lunch with Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo. Especially when you're given access to Ferrari's Fiorano track and turned loose on the very roads that Ferrari uses to develop its cars. Especially when you're given the keys to a 2013 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta..

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1211_ultimate_fantasy_1_2013_ferrari_f12_berlinetta/viewall.html

 

[Merc1]

Love this car.....


M

 

[Mafalda]

So if the Aventador is a smidge quicker, that makes the transmission automatically as good as 458, MP4-12C, or other DCTs? No, it doesn't. But of course it takes a person with an understanding of nuances between extremes to understand that.
There have been Aventador tests that indicate its transmission is nothing as quick as the latest DCTs. Autocar:
"It’s not a dual clutch system but it does pre-select ratios, so the effect is almost the same – in theory. In practice, however, it’s a long way from swapping ratios as quickly or as smoothly as a Ferrari 458 or McLaren MP4-12C."

C&D:
"compared with newer dual-clutch boxes in the Ferrari 458 and others, it still feels dated, especially around town when yawning torque holes between shifts cause passengers to bob and sway in their seats. Once in a while, in low-speed situations, the clutch bounces between slip and grip like a nervous first-time stick shifter."

Motor Trend:
"We universally loathed the Aventador's transmission. 'A major letdown,' notes MacKenzie. 'In Street mode, the shifts are slower than a wet weekend in Cleveland, and in Corsa, it's like you're getting hit in the back of the head with a shovel.' He ain't lying about either part. When left in full auto and Street mode, the Aventador's 'independent shifting rod' automated single-clutch manual is plain awful. Worse than the Aston Martin Vantage S and approaching Smart Fortwo levels of terribleness. Lambo claims it went with the ISR solution over a dual-clutch to save weight. Big mistake, say all of us."

Need I remind you that the Aventador costs more than the 458 or MP4-12C? I think I must, because you seem strangely quiet when this European car is slagged for its transmission.

Also note in that thread that I went beyond graphs and even posted the intermediate, GPS-sourced split times which suggest that the LFA is actually quicker than the 599 GTB HGTE in its shifts:
http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...-production-version.31164/page-56#post-586007

Alfa 8C vs LFA, as measured by Road & Track. The Alfa isn't anywhere really close, looking more like a pure manual transmission:

No triumphalistic comments, yet the pro-Italian rating from the Italian mag says it all. R&T on the other hand, as you know, is an American magazine so you can't claim patriotism is behind their findings.

50x150 pixes? No, try 821x619:
http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...r-production-version.31164/reply?quote=586088

Still missing from your post mafalda: Someone who says the LFA transmission is the best ever. Mafalda, I've never said the LFA transmission can't be improved for speed and smoothness. The question is: Does that really matter? Is it in keeping with the visceral feel the engineers wanted for the LFA? Think about why many street Lexus vehicles have comfortable, adaptive dampers, yet the LFA's are fixed-rate non-adjustable (outside of normal settings like toe, caster, camber, etc).
Secondly, does it appear to you that the LFA's transmission speeds are 4x's slower than eGear?

I've also asked to you: show me where you criticize its gearshift... where? please link me
contrary, you sustain the thesis of 330CIZHP: LF-A's gearshist as almost fast as aventador!!!
thanks for this 821*619 pixels.. itcome form R&T right?
...let's go to R&T website to read the article
-Aventador: "the transmission goes into berserk mode and every upshift is lightning-fast and sledgehammer-strike hard"
...can you help me find a similar comment about the LF-A's gearshift?
why the LF-A (and also the N.E.) is slower than a Gallardo LP560 dispite its "faster" gearshift (if LFA = Avent, and Avent >Lp560 -----> LFA MUST gearshift faster than LP560"

let's see about 8C (also fomr R&T) " Changing gears manually is fun as well"

to support your bizarre theories, you used of R & T as a source , but does not seem to agree with you, as I do not read comments enthusiastic about its gearshift....and as usual, discarding any criticism, endorsing my point every time. as you say, the LF-A is untouchable. Or it's perfect, oppure you're fanboys. make your choice

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