F12berlinetta [Official] Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

[330CIZHP]

Mafalda, for the love of God, please stop grasping at straws here. Why do you think we are so stupid??? It is the same old f'ing selective argument for the last 2 years (and strangely, after several weeks). You did call LFA the "most useless supercar ever" (which is fine since it is your personal opinion) so why are you polluting this Ferrari thread with the nonsense rhetoric??

Calling me a "fanboi" is laughable. No I don't believe LFA's transmission is quick as that of the Aventador, but why does it matter?? Lambo did not opt for the quicker DCT either. It is like me saying, Aventador should have weighed 3400 lbs like the LFA instead of 4200 lbs since they are both CF. No I am not a fanboi since I am not putting down any car here. It is more like you being mired in your hatred since there is no evidence whatsoever to backup your claim and only based on your speculation.

That is why there is no credibility in this argument since if you truly were honest in your argument, you would be questioning tons of other bigger variables first such as, the abnormal 0 - 30 mph time as to how it is only the same as a 440 HP M3 GTS, off the line traction and making sure you keep the massive tire grip differences in mind, which are the low hanging fruits and the true culprits.

You are simply killing the brain cells in my head. Lexus LFA NE has much better tires than the standard LFA and it is not slower than the LP560-4 on Pirelli Corsa super-slick tires with AWD.

We have talked about how standard LFA's 0 - 60 mph is the only culprit. Once after 100 km/h, it has a best time of getting to 200 km/h in 7.5 and to 260 km/h in only 16.6 seconds with the exact same transmission. The Nurburgring edition did 100 km/h - 200 km/h in only 7.3 seconds.

I am curious how many zillion times more would you be stood corrected on the fact and variables. I want to know so that I can copy paste the same posts every single time you bring up your biased logic.

The only test that happened was with Horst Von Saurma and Sport Auto. There is only one test avalailable of LFA NE and it was done by Sport Auto so it is only fair to compare the closest testing surface, conditions and driver to that of the LFA NE.

Sport Auto Lexus LFA NE

0 - 200 km/h: 11.2 seconds
100 - 200 km/h: 7.3 seconds

Sport Auto Gallardo LP560-4

100 - 200 km/h: 7.8 seconds
0 - 200 km/h: 11.6 seconds

Sport Auto R8 V10 GT 560 PS

100 - 200 km/h: 8.1 seconds
0 - 200 km/h: 12.0 seconds

Sport Auto SLS AMG

100 - 200 km/h: 7.9 seconds
0 - 200 km/h: 11.7 seconds

Sport Auto Porsche GT3 RS 4.0 500 PS

100 - 200 km/h: 8.1 seconds
0 - 200 km/h: 12.0 seconds

Sport Auto Porsche Turbo S PDK

0 - 200 km/h: 10.6 seconds
100 - 200 km/h: 7.5 seconds

So with the same driver and testing track, even when LFA is not a straight line car since it makes tons more downforce with the huge wing, Horst Von Saurma was 4/10ths faster with the LFA NE than the LP560-4 inspite of the LP560-4 wearing Corsa tires in the sport auto test while the LFA NE was wearing the old 2009 Nissan GTR high-grip street tires.

Furthermore, AutoCar went to great lengths to explain why LFA's acceleration numbers did not do justice to its "accelerative abilities". It explains exactly that with zero ambiguity left.

(AutoCar, September 2010)

However, any measure of performance that includes a standing start greatly undersells the LFA’s accelerative ability because, without launch control, the LFA struggles off the line, either bogging down or burning its clutch. Discount the launch and the LFA is much more competitive. A 30-100mph time of 6.2sec is about the same as the SLS’s and LP560’s. Furthermore, unlike our test prototype, customer cars are expected to have launch control.

They also praised how fast the transmission is, but disliked the harshness and how it behaves in slow shifting modes

In performance terms, the LFA’s biggest disappointment is its single-clutch gearbox. Next to the latest dual-clutch systems, it feels outdated. In its most extreme setting, the changes are fast enough but brutal; switch to a slower setting and the changes become ponderous and clumsy

Isn't this exactly what I have been saying for the last 2 years that the only thing abnormal is the tests getting 4.2 - 4.5 seconds 0 - 100 km/h? AutoCar made it abundantly clear that the problem is only till 30 mph. Once after 30 mph and LFA gaining full traction well before the 1st gear shift, LFA starts accelerating like anyone would expect it to up to the finish of the race, which is 1000 meters or 1 KM.

However, considering endurance track racing begins with a flying start and rolling acceleration is what truly matters, I can imagine why Lexus never perfected LFA's launching abilities since it is not an important thing in the case of the LFA.

You just simply will never get it since you are suffering from severe biased perceptions and no matter how many hard facts are put in front of you and questioning your credibility. However, you will always fail to keep selling that shoddy Italian magazine argument since you cannot convince anyone of something that is not based on facts.

I've also asked to you: show me where you criticize its gearshift... where? please link me
contrary, you sustain the thesis of 330CIZHP: LF-A's gearshist as almost fast as aventador!!!
thanks for this 821*619 pixels.. itcome form R&T right?
...let's go to R&T website to read the article
-Aventador: "the transmission goes into berserk mode and every upshift is lightning-fast and sledgehammer-strike hard"
...can you help me find a similar comment about the LF-A's gearshift?
why the LF-A (and also the N.E.) is slower than a Gallardo LP560 dispite its "faster" gearshift (if LFA = Avent, and Avent >Lp560 -----> LFA MUST gearshift faster than LP560"

let's see about 8C (also fomr R&T) " Changing gears manually is fun as well"

to support your bizarre theories, you used of R & T as a source , but does not seem to agree with you, as I do not read comments enthusiastic about its gearshift....and as usual, discarding any criticism, endorsing my point every time. as you say, the LF-A is untouchable. Or it's perfect, oppure you're fanboys. make your choice

​

 

[Gianclaudio]

​

Or it's perfect, oppure you're fanboys. make your choice

English, oppure italiano?

 

[Mafalda]

1. talk about LF-A, or LF-A n.e.
2. LFA =/= LFA N.E. (-30 Kgs, +11ps, improved gearshifts etc)
3. about LP560, there's a lots of full test better than Sport Auto
4. quoting Autocar, please don't change the article, becaus they wrote "A 30-100mph time of 6.2sec is just 0.1sec off the SLS’s and LP560’s." 0.1s off =/= LF-A is faster
5. Also about Autocar, they wrote "In its most extreme setting, the changes are fast enough " too. If I can read english as well, "changes are fast enough" =/= "incredibly fast"
6. Autocar also wrote (I cannot find it in your post..) Verdict... "BAD": gearbox performances....
7. If LF-A has "old" tyres is a choice, not an excuse
8. Corsa give and hand just @ start, not from 0.1 to 397 Kph
9. AWD give an hand just @ start. contrary, after the start increase frictions.....
10. What about AMuS? they agree with Autocar? What About Auto ? "worst part of the car"? What about Quattroruote (from 1st drive)? "gearshifts are slow when you go fast, and no-comfortable when you go slow". I remeber to you how QR, Autocar and AmuS are three of the mostimportant car-magazines all over the world. why I cannot find something like "incredibly quick-gearshift"?
I'd continue....

as usual, you refuse any criticism and in doing yours bets higher and higher. This your last argument (LFA' gearshift = aventador) is unfounded. the worst thing is that, in a few months, you'write LFA = F12...? LFA = Mc P1?
see you

 

[330CIZHP]

Wrong! LFA NE makes a lot more downforce than the standard LFA so it is not much quicker than the standard LFA and the weight difference was only 22 KG (1562 KG vs 1580 KG in SA). It is just that there is no testing side by side available. Chris Harris even said aside from the grip levels, he could not tell much difference driving back to back and that he would just take the standard LFA and throw on the same tires and be nearly as good.

Officially, Pirelli advertises a 10% improvement over any non racing compound street tires. For McLaren MP4-12C, Pirelli advertises a substantial improvement in 0 - 60 mph number alone (3.1 seconds), if Corsa tires are selected. Z06 Carbon showed an improvement of 6.5 seconds per lap just with the slick tire swap at Laguna Seca in a test.

Better yet, you should read what Saurma and SA said about having slick tires and how it improves performance.

Think about it. The difference has to be big, which is why they are called "racing compound" tires since they sacrifice a lot of drivability and comfort in order to gain dry traction for racing purposes. If there was only a negligible difference (1/10ths) then racing compound tires would have died out since no one would see the point of sacrificing so much to gain almost nothing in the dry.

I am not going to respond to your baseless rhetoric (LFA vs Aventador transmission as I have said what I wanted to say based on all factual VBOX telemetry evidence), on the other hand. No way, myself or anyone else will draw conclusions on LFA's gearbox vs that of F12 or MP1 since they are dual-clutch gearboxes and their acceleration curve show no hiccups. I am done arguing.

1. talk about LF-A, or LF-A n.e.
2. LFA =/= LFA N.E. (-30 Kgs, +11ps, improved gearshifts etc)
3. about LP560, there's a lots of full test better than Sport Auto
4. quoting Autocar, please don't change the article, becaus they wrote "A 30-100mph time of 6.2sec is just 0.1sec off the SLS’s and LP560’s." 0.1s off =/= LF-A is faster
5. Also about Autocar, they wrote "In its most extreme setting, the changes are fast enough " too. If I can read english as well, "changes are fast enough" =/= "incredibly fast"
6. Autocar also wrote (I cannot find it in your post..) Verdict... "BAD": gearbox performances....
7. If LF-A has "old" tyres is a choice, not an excuse
8. Corsa give and hand just @ start, not from 0.1 to 397 Kph
9. AWD give an hand just @ start. contrary, after the start increase frictions.....
10. What about AMuS? they agree with Autocar? What About Auto ? "worst part of the car"? What about Quattroruote (from 1st drive)? "gearshifts are slow when you go fast, and no-comfortable when you go slow". I remeber to you how QR, Autocar and AmuS are three of the mostimportant car-magazines all over the world. why I cannot find something like "incredibly quick-gearshift"?
I'd continue....

as usual, you refuse any criticism and in doing yours bets higher and higher. This your last argument (LFA' gearshift = aventador) is unfounded. the worst thing is that, in a few months, you'write LFA = F12...? LFA = Mc P1?
see you

 

[Sunny]

Guys, this is a thread about F12, not LFA or LP 560.

 

[Guibo]

I've also asked to you: show me where you criticize its gearshift... where? please link me
contrary, you sustain the thesis of 330CIZHP: LF-A's gearshist as almost fast as aventador!!!
thanks for this 821*619 pixels.. itcome form R&T right?
...let's go to R&T website to read the article
-Aventador: "the transmission goes into berserk mode and every upshift is lightning-fast and sledgehammer-strike hard"
...can you help me find a similar comment about the LF-A's gearshift?

let's see about 8C (also fomr R&T) " Changing gears manually is fun as well"

to support your bizarre theories, you used of R & T as a source , but does not seem to agree with you, as I do not read comments enthusiastic about its gearshift....and as usual, discarding any criticism, endorsing my point every time. as you say, the LF-A is untouchable. Or it's perfect, oppure you're fanboys. make your choice

Why do I need to criticize its gearshift? I can understand why Lexus would want it, and why Lambo would want theirs. Is this a referendum on the LFA vs Aventador? Or the Aventador vs other cars which cost much less, but have better transmissions. I clearly state the LFA's transmission is slower than DCT here:

In this one, the GT-R holds off to the end (and looks like it actually pulls a bit too, probably due to the shifts).

http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/911-gt2-rs-vs-lexus-lfa.37154/page-2#post-512187

And here:

All pretty much agree that the engine is a masterpiece, with amazing revvability; but they almost all agree that the single-clutch transmission that helps make this possible takes a back seat to modern DCT's. This, for me, is another area where the LFA can't quite make the knock-out blow to the GT-R.

http://www.germancarforum.com/commu...ead-was-coming-lf-a-vs-gtr.31191/#post-420352

Now, the proof is on you, as it has been since you made the claim, that some of us think the LFA's transmission is the best ever.

Comments like R&T for the LFA's transmission? I've already posted some, but since you keep forgetting, here you go:
"The linear, yet savage, power delivery is intoxicating and the ferocity with which the transmission can slam in the gearchanges is literally breathtaking."
--5th Gear

"The shifts are smooth and eye-blink quick in manual mode but become a bit clunky in the automatic setting. (This is the case with most single-clutch automated manuals.)"
--Car & Driver

"Getting back up to speed, the column-mounted paddles click up through the six-speed ASG gearbox remarkably fast. Shifts can come as quickly as 0.2 second in Sport mode, about as fast as any gearbox made, but they aren't at all brutal."
--Autoweek

"The gearbox is just so brilliant. A great mechanical feeling. It reacts immediately."
Sandor van Es, Autoweek.nl, NRing Edition

"Hit a clear patch of road and the first thing you notice is the phenomenal straight-line speed - 0-60 in 3.6 seconds - and the second is the insanely quick gear change."
--James Martin, Daily Mail

For sure, it's not praised like the DCTs in the Nissan, 458, or MP4-12C. I never said it was. But similarly damning comments have been thrown at the Aventador, which is cheaper than those cars, yet you remain silent. Did you really want me to list those comments here? I can do it, if you like.

why the LF-A (and also the N.E.) is slower than a Gallardo LP560 dispite its "faster" gearshift (if LFA = Avent, and Avent >Lp560 -----> LFA MUST gearshift faster than LP560"

This has got to be the worst example of "deductive logic" I've ever seen on this forum. We've already discussed LP560: torque, aero drag, etc. Only a fanboy pins it down on shift speeds.
By that logic, does that mean that the LP560 is slower than Aventador due ONLY to the gearshift? 700 hp has nothing to do with it? LOL. LFA has slower gearshift than Boxster w/PDK, but guess which one is faster? LFA is slower than ZR1, but guess which one has faster gearshift?

let's see about 8C (also fomr R&T) " Changing gears manually is fun as well"

And what does fun have to do with shift speeds?? You made a comment about QR saying LFA shifts like old Selespeed. Isn't the 8C faster than old Selespeed? Does that chart look to you like the LFA is slower than 8C? Open your eyes before posting, mafalda.
Writers have said the LFA transmission is fun and suits the character of the LFA too...

 

[330CIZHP]

Guys, this is a thread about F12, not LFA or LP 560.

My apologies. I have really been trying to refrain from posting. I promise I will not say a word anymore.

 

[Sunny]

^No worries, I know how hard it can be... :cheers

 

[Guibo]

as usual, you refuse any criticism and in doing yours bets higher and higher. This your last argument (LFA' gearshift = aventador) is unfounded. the worst thing is that, in a few months, you'write LFA = F12...? LFA = Mc P1?
see you

Unfounded...really?

"In Corsa, the most aggressive mode, the front differential receives more power and locks more aggressively. One misstep in Corsa is the synthetic, feels-like-we're-getting-rear-ended shift harshness at wide-open throttle that Lamborghini intentionally programmed into the seven-speed automated manual, calling it 'highly emotional.'
While the shift harshness is one software fix away, Lamborghini's single-clutch gearbox has deeper issues. Though capable of snapping off 50-millisecond gear changes, it seems to shift smoothly only at wide-open throttle in any mode that isn't Corsa. Shifts happen slowly at low to moderate speeds, and, annoyingly, the transmission must change to neutral if you stay stopped for too long, to reduce clutch wear. Lamborghini maintains that the transmission is lighter than a comparable twin-clutch unit. This may be true, but more important, the transmission adds more theater to the experience."
--Motor Trend

"We universally loathed the Aventador's transmission. 'A major letdown,' notes MacKenzie. 'In Street mode, the shifts are slower than a wet weekend in Cleveland, and in Corsa, it's like you're getting hit in the back of the head with a shovel.' He ain't lying about either part. When left in full auto and Street mode, the Aventador's 'independent shifting rod' automated single-clutch manual is plain awful. Worse than the Aston Martin Vantage S and approaching Smart Fortwo levels of terribleness. Lambo claims it went with the ISR solution over a dual-clutch to save weight. Big mistake, say all of us."
--Motor Trend, Best Drivers Car 2012

"And then there’s the gearshift itself, which Lamborghini claims is 40 per cent swifter than a Gallardo Superleggera’s, making it 'one of the world’s fastest-ever automated gearboxes.'
It’s not a dual clutch system but it does pre-select ratios, so the effect is almost the same – in theory. In practice, however, it’s a long way from swapping ratios as quickly or as smoothly as a Ferrari 458 or McLaren MP4-12C."
--Autocar

"That gearchange is starting to grate a little, though. Each upshift is literally painful and even a gentle lift as the next gear is about to smack home only smothers the mechanical punch about 50% of the time."
--Car Magazine

"Despite this gearchange system apparently having some similarities with a Bugatti Veyron, it's nothing like as smooth. A Veyron changes gear on full throttle without even your hair twitching. This cracks your neck. I think Lamborghini said they want to create the world's most emotional gearchange. The only emotion I'm getting is a stiff neck."
--Tiff Needell

"The other disappointment is the gearbox. It’s fine if a little sluggish if you leave the car in Sport mode, but the moment you select ‘Corsa’ for track work, the shifts become harsh to the point of violence. Lamborghini calls this ‘emotional’ shifting. I call it pointless."
--MotorSport Magazine

"It is definitely prompt, but compared with newer dual-clutch boxes in the Ferrari 458 and others, it still feels dated."
--Car and Driver

"Lamborghini says it wants to retain the 'most emotional' possible shifts. Curious. I've felt a number of emotions when changing gear in the Aventador, but to date 'satisfied' has yet to be one of them.
The gearbox calibration is no better than poor at times, too, sluggish and jerky."
--Autocar

"Despite being in Sport mode, as I flick up through the 7-speed single-clutch 'box the gearchanges don't feel quite as quick as I was expecting. They're quick enough, but they don't have that slick-shifting quality you get with the very best dual-clutch gearboxes (Ferrari's in particular)."
--Harry Metcalfe, Evo

"Oddly, the linearity of the delivery and lack of V12 thunder make it feel as if something is being held back, and that's just not right in a a 250k, 700bhp supercar. Also, the shift of the single-clutch automated manual is either too lazy or too frantic.
Strada is too ponderous, Sport is fine but not as impressive as the best dual-clutch systems here, and then there's Corsa. A ful-bore upchange in this fiercest mode certainly does something to your spine, but tingle doesn't quite capture it. Try imagining the shock, noise and violence of a small train-crash and you're close to the brutal BANG that occurs. As Richard Porter says, 'First time you gasp, second time you laugh, third time you start to wonder what the bloody hell it's doing to the car and why the front axle appears to be smacking into the bulhead. You don't do it a fourth time, unless you have no mechanical sympathy whatsoever.'"
--Evo, COTY 2011

Angus MacKenzie dedicated nearly an entire blog to it:
"the single-clutch automated manual transmission is a joke. In Strada (street) mode, the shifts are slower than a wet weekend in Cleveland; in Corsa (race) mode, they’re like a hit across the back of the head with a shovel; and Sport, the setting in between, isn’t much good, either. It doesn’t matter whether you’re going slow or fast, trying to work with the Aventador’s tranny is an exercise in teeth-grinding frustration. Next to Porsche’s PDK and the new dual-clutch transmissions from Ferrari, it’s hopelessly outclassed."
--Angus MacKenzie
http://blogs.motortrend.com/broken-bull-why-lamborghini-needs-fixing-24861.html

So why do you not criticize the Aventador like you do the LFA, mafalda? No comment on Tom Ford of Top Gear bashing the Aston One-77's gearbox? And that car costs even more than the LFA...(oh, but it comes not from Japan)

 

[Guibo]

My apologies. I have really been trying to refrain from posting. I promise I will not say a word anymore.

Maybe a compromise should be reached that all can agree to. If mafalda looks to be baiting fans of all cars (which just happen to include the LFA) with his usual LFA-bashing rhetoric that is intended to divert a thread, perhaps we can just report such posts for moderators to remove.

 

[Giannis]

perhaps we can just report such posts for moderators to remove.

Or you can start a new thread in the Internal Combustion forum, and discuss everything there

 

[lambornima]

Wow, what a shit-show. Any numbers yet on the F12?

 

[Soup]

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[Soup]

 

[Soup]

 

[Deckhook]

I wonder what will Lambo's answer to this is, no doubt they are working on it as we speak. Hell of an engine.

 

[Levi68]

 

[HighestOfHigh]

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[Zafiro]

Stunning photo of a stunning car

View attachment ce3a310900c89f277ded3a06cd3428ea.jpg

 

[klier]

Fantastic. Yellow looks great on her!

I wonder what will Lambo's answer to this is, no doubt they are working on it as we speak. Hell of an engine.

VAG threads are that way ---------->