Giulia [Official] Alfa Romeo Giulia

[hoffmeister_fan]

It's not a V6, it's the 90 deg V8 from the Quattroporte GTS that you see in the Maserati picture. A Ferrari's engine derivation belonging to the F154 engine-family - the F154 A.

The engine of the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is the first V6 derivation coming from that family and the first to use cylinder deactivation (an entire 3-cylinder bank shuts down, the engine will operate on the remaining 3-cylinder alone thereafter).

Confusion on my part as i thought you were also referring to the V6 in the Masers, and not the V8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F160_engine <-- V6 found in the QP and Ghibli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F154_engine <-- V8 found in the QP

 

[Z4ever]

Yes I am aware of this track comparison but there are other mags that have placed the Merc ahead of the BMW. Whatever, it is a close enough comparison and the choice depends all on the particular driver.

I would say of the magazine in question...

In any case, the Alfa Giulia Q is better than both dynamically, while it seems a very close call between the C63 S AMG and the M4.

I know that's very hard to admit by the establishment... Chris Harris anyone!?

 

[Rolf]

I would say of the magazine in question...

In any case, the Alfa Giulia Q is better than both dynamically, while it seems a very close call between the C63 S AMG and the M4.

I know that's very hard to admit by the establishment... Chris Harris anyone!?

I can't wait to see more magazines compare the Alfa Giulia QF against the C63 S and M3 and have full performance testing especially the likes of ABSC and AS German mags, that will be mega exciting!

 

[Tarek]

If Ferrari made a mid-sized, four-door car, you suspect it would feel and go exactly like this.

Enough for me.

 

[savage-It]

 

[Z4ever]

Here's some crankshaft terminology and some of its different throw arrangements:

This will be useful for us to find a definite answer to the question: what is the Giulia Q's crankshaft configuration?

If we assume that the Alfa's V6 engine is essentially the Ferrari's V8 engine with the end two cylinders chopped off, then the flat plane crankshaft with 4 throws of the latter would have given place to a 3 throws, flat plane crankshaft for the former.

However, you should know by now that a flat-plane crankshaft is not feasible with a V6 engine, unless the 'V' angle is so wide that the engine becomes a 'flat V' (180 degrees) instead, where, like it happens with the Ferrari's V8 flat plane crankshaft, the pistons and their connecting rods share one crankshaft journal, or crankpin, per two (horizontally in the case of the 'flat-V') opposed cylinders (not to confuse with the Porsche boxer engines whose crankshaft has one crankpin per cylinder).

On the left picture below, however, the 'flat-V6' engine example shows a crankshaft with throws spaced every 120 degrees (see the circle where numbers represent the pistons pairs and the angle formed between each of them), whereas a flat plane crankshaft, which could also be used, would always have a 180 degree angle between throws, hence the name flat plane.

(Note that pistons in a 'flat-V6' engine will move in accordance with the direction of one another while in the boxer engine, the piston moves opposite to each other.)

So, the 90 degree V6 engine of the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio definitely doesn't have a flat plane crankshaft!!!

But, if it's not flat plane... what is the Giulia Q's crankshaft configuration then?

Keeping in mind our initial assumption that the Alfa's V6 engine is largely based on the Ferrari's F154 BB V8 engine, then the cylinder spacing will be VERY likely equal to that of the V8 (for economies of scale reasons) and since both engines have matching bores size (86.5 mm) it means that it would be impossible for the crankshaft to have as many as six individual crankpins to go with the correspondent six piston's conrods of the V6 engine, as the cylinder spacing would no longer be equal to that of the V8 (it would have to be necessarily larger). Remember that with the Ferrari's V8 flat plane crankshaft, the pistons and their connecting rods share one crankpin per two opposed cylinders in the 'V' banks.

And, to increase the confusion Alfa Romeo states what seems to be the opposite to what has just been said: "Crankshaft: super-finished forged nitride steel with single con-rod pin."

To be continued...

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I've never heard of flat V6 and from the configuration it looks too much prone to vibrations, because of lack of self counter balancing

 

[Z4ever]

I've never heard of flat V6 and from the configuration it looks too much prone to vibrations, because of lack of self counter balancing

The 'flat-V6' engine example is there just to ilustrate the only way a flat crankshaft could work with a V6 engine... being possible doesn't necessarily mean it's good or the best solution.

What you definitely won't be hearing about is a 90 degree V6 engine with a flat crank... except from the British rags!

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

The 'flat-V6' engine example is there just to ilustrate the only way a flat crankshaft could work with a V6 engine... being possible doesn't necessarily mean it's good or the best solution.

What you definitely won't be hearing about is a 90 degree V6 engine with a flat crank... except from the British rags!

Of course. With three firings per revolution a flat crank is just not possible

 

[savage-It]

not bad...

 

[Zafiro]

Result : 4.5 stars for all cars except for Lexus. For the three testers it was between alfa and Mercedes. So in the end it was a personal opinion which one to pick.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Why did they compare coupes against the Alfa, when the M3 and C class berline exist?

 

[Z4ever]

Of course. With three firings per revolution a flat crank is just not possible

Correct! Even with a 'flat V6' engine, one would have to have two cylinders firing at the same time (Big-bang firing) followed by a third one in order to meet the three firings per revolution requirement, if a flat crank was used.

In a 4-stroke engine, the desirable 'evenly spaced firing interval' condition (to balance the firing forces) is achieved when one divides the 4-strokes (each piston stroke represents 180 degree of the crankshaft rotation) by the number of cylinders, which in the 6-cylinder engine case means one firing at every 4*180/6 = 720/6 = 120 degrees or, in other words, three firings per revolution (3*120 = 360 degrees). Thus, all of the six cylinders will fire after two crankshaft revolutions (720 degrees).

Now, here's the interesting part... as mentioned earlier, the easiest way to get a V6 engine from a V8 one is to cut the end two cylinders out of the latter and then add a three throw crankshaft with the crank-throws and crankpins spaced at intervals of 120 degrees (the pistons and their connecting rods will have to share one crankpin per two opposed cylinders in the 'V' banks) but, since the banks retain the same 90 degree 'V' angle of the V8 engine, an odd thing (pun intended) happens... there will be three firings per revolution still, only this time they will not be evenly spaced, they will occur at 90, 150 and again at 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation angle (90+150+90 = 330 which is within the 360 degrees of a revolution). This is called an odd-firing engine.

So, is the Giulia Q's engine also an odd-firing V6 just like it happens with the current F1 engines where the 90 degree V6 layout and three throw crankshaft configuration is mandatory by the rules?

 

[Z4ever]

Is then the odd-firing engine responsible for the "burble or throaty, growling sound in the engine note" of the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio?

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[Z4ever]

Moreover, since the 90 degree V6 engine of the Giulia Q is able to shut down one cylinder bank completely through its cylinder de-activation feature, it means that the Giulia Quadrifoglio engine will look and work, in that condition, like an in-line three-cylinder canted 90 degree to the side and, as such, a three throw crankshaft, with crankpins spaced at intervals of 120 degrees and four main journals and bearings to support it, will also be its natural arrangement (as in an in-line three cylinder engine).

 

[Z4ever]

Result : 4.5 stars for all cars except for Lexus. For the three testers it was between alfa and Mercedes. So in the end it was a personal opinion which one to pick.

The M4 is beaten and now they remember that the C63 AMG even exists in order to save the German honor... it sounds strange coming from a British magazine and after the Brexit process has been initiated...

"The winner of this test is either the C63 S or the Giulia Quadrifoglio. Take a moment to digest that. We all believe that the Giulia is more exciting and enjoyable than the M4 Competition Package. I think it’s faster, too. The way it changes direction is quite amazing and the grip offered by the Pirelli tyres is above and beyond the rest of the cars here. The Lexus? I love its alternative take on, well, everything, but it’s just not quite sharp enough to run with the pack here. Pretty soon, everyone is loitering near the C63 S or Alfa for one last drive to decide which way it’s going to go…

I’d feared that the lure of the new would wear off over the course of this test. That the Alfa’s initial wow-factor would diminish. Instead, I find it more enjoyable the longer and further I drive. It’s true that it lacks the final polish that the Mercedes and BMW offer in terms of damping, gearshift speed and precision, and the fine detail of things such as ABS actuation, but it more than compensates with its sense of urgency, its terrific steering response and the sheer manic performance it can serve up on a great road. The only real dynamic frustration beyond the extremely sensitive brakes is that the electronically controlled diff won’t lock up in very tight corners and that allows the inside rear wheel to spin up slightly clumsily at times. However, in the quicker corners you feel it working, driving the front wheels into each corner and creating this lovely, easily manipulated balance. One final drive swings it for the Alfa. I think.

But then I sit in the Mercedes, and never mind the nearly ten-grand premium, it feels £25,000 more expensive. And I start the engine and it rips and snorts into life. And when it streams down the hill, the chassis feels so unbelievably easy to tease and boss. It’s the arch entertainer. Hand on heart, would I enjoy driving this thing every day more than I would the Alfa? Yes. But it’s a close-run thing. The Giulia Quadrifoglio is an Alfa Romeo we can all love not for the badge, not because it’s Italian and noisy, but because it’s a great car. I’d waited many years to drive the Col du Grand Saint Bernard and perhaps even longer to drive a genuinely brilliant Alfa Romeo. To do both at the same time? Unforgettable" [Evo UK]

 

[Z4ever]

The only real dynamic frustration beyond the extremely sensitive brakes is that the electronically controlled diff won’t lock up in very tight corners and that allows the inside rear wheel to spin up slightly clumsily at times.

'Dynamic frustration'?!?!? Say what?!

If that's true, I gladly would trade the diff lock up action in favor of a stellar turn-in behavior in very tight corners, because otherwise it's only the dreadful understeering you will likely end up getting.

Remember the legendary Lotus' resistance in using locking diffs on their models and how British motorpress keeps cherishing their steering qualities, namely, the turn-in characteristics?!

 

[Tarek]

Why they keep pitting the QV against coupes?

 

[Z4ever]

Why they keep pitting the QV against coupes?

Isn't that obvious?!

Because BMW and Mercedes are convinced that their coupes are better looking than their saloons couterparts and this time that has finally become decisive against an italian saloon... let alone an Alfa Romeo.

Besides, the coupes will be their best selling top of the line models in that car segment... by far!

 

[savage-It]