New Mercedes-Benz 4.7 Twin-Turbo V8 and New 3.5 V6

[Wolfgang]

the plot thickens?

CAR Magazine UK

Mercedes-Benz Returning To Straight-Six Engines?

BY VIKNESH VIJAYENTHIRAN - MotorAuthority

Just as BMW makes headlines for possibly going with a V-6 engine in its next-generation M3, arch rival Mercedes-Benz is now in the spotlight over news that it is planning to launch a new straight-six engine.

On top of this, there’s also word that Mercedes plans to continue its engine downsizing strategy with the launch of a new twin-turbocharged V-8 displacing just 4.0-liters in the year 2015.

However, you’ll recall that the automaker has only just taken the wraps off a pair of new engines, a 3.5-liter V-6 and a twin-turbocharged 4.7-liter V-8, so news that it will bring out even more engines, including a radical straight-six, does raise some doubts.

British magazine CAR, citing an anonymous Mercedes-Benz engineer, is reporting that the automaker will in fact launch a new straight-six engine in 2015, as well as a new low-cost four-cylinder range and twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter V-8.

Importantly, the straight-six design will reportedly be used for both Mercedes’ gasoline and diesel six-cylinder engines in the future, but only for larger models. The V-8, meanwhile, is said to replace the current 4.7-liter unit.

The move would come as quite a surprise given the better packaging of V-6 designs, which allow engineers to sit the engines further back in the car, aiding both center of gravity and pedestrian crash protection.

However, there is some logic in the madness. Aston Martin was recently reported to be investigating the use of a straight-six engine in some of its future models and the links between the British brand and Mercedes-Benz could mean some joint engine development.

Stay tuned for an update.

Mercedes-Benz Returning To Straight-Six Engines?

 

[Merc1]

I just don't believe it yet. Seems like a lot of trouble for the sake of being different. The new 4.0L V8 I can see, but a I6 in 2015? I just don't see it.


M

 

[Monster]

I just don't believe it yet. Seems like a lot of trouble for the sake of being different. The new 4.0L V8 I can see, but a I6 in 2015? I just don't see it.
M

I am just guessing, but this can be possible, 2015 sounds about the right time for a brand new E-class, and this can be used as an opportunity to launch the brand new I6 even though MB has never launch a new car with a new engine for their high volume models, also they might make the I4 the only engine option for the entire C-class range.

 

[Merc1]

Actually they have launched a new engine with a new car, but its rare. The W221 S550 did both, the 2005 SLK350 did also.


M

 

[EnI]

I find that very surprising.

Sure I6 can be a bit lighter. But V6 is shorter, lower - which allows putting weight away from front axle, and lower to the ground. All this impacting the design: designers being able to come up with shorter front overhangs & lower hood. Since there are pedestrian safety regulations that dictate minimum distance from engine block (and so impacting hood height & front overhang length. And the V6-turbo can be more compact than I6-turbo.

While I6 can be lighter due to inline uniblock & it's more refined in running than V6.

I guess with all the new factors (engines going turbo; carmakers trying to reduce car's weight; pedestrian safety regulations affecting car's front designs; luxury cars trying to be more & more refined etc) it's a tricky decision whether to go with I6 or V6. Not a very easy decision.

 

[klier]

the plot thickens?

No, it doesn't. There is nothing new in that article, just added speculation. All from British press btw, that's funny to see as well. So the Brits know it before the German press? Hah!

Logically thinking, I'm with Merc1 on this one. And not because I don't want an I6 in an MB, because I do. All German cars should have them like that.

Actually they have launched a new engine with a new car, but its rare. The W221 S550 did both, the 2005 SLK350 did also.


M

For BMW it's rare too. I remember the 7er doing it twice recently, but that's about it.....?

 

[Wolfgang]

^^^ Also agree with Merc1, he's usually right on.


MB V6 history: 1998 M112, 2006 M272 also 90 deg, 2010 M276 60 deg V6 with 3rd gen jet guided direct injection speculation: 2015 I6 with 4th gen jet direct injection, Euro 6, w/ turbo



Merc to revive straight six engines, plus 4cyl and smaller V8s

By Georg Kacher - CAR Magazine

Mercedes has just signed off a new engine family which will see most full-sized Mercs in future run four-cylinders, downsized V8s and… straight sixes.

A friendly Mercedes engineer recently met CAR to disclose the engine plans for future models, including the surprise disclosure that Merc plans to switch to straight sixes, like its rivals over in Munich.

It's fair to say I almost choked on my breakfast croissant when I found out the details of the next MB engine generation which has just been signed off for release in 2015.

Mercedes' future four-cylinder engines

Again, there will be a family of new low-cost fours, and the big-bore V8s will be replaced by a series of downsized turbocharged 4.0-litre units.

So far, so good. But who would have expected that the V6 is on its way out, both in diesel and petrol form?

Merc does a BMW and goes straight six

Instead, Mercedes-Benz is going to revive the in-line six for use in its larger cars. Our source at Daimler suggests it will be available in single and twin-turbo guise.

What with the engines flowing from the Renault-Nissan empire after the alliance – with three- and four-cylinder petrol and diesel engines bound for future Smart and smaller Mercs – it sounds like tomorrow's Mercedes models will have quite a different feel to today's.

Merc to revive straight six engines, plus 4cyl and smaller V8s | Automotive & Motoring News | Car Magazine Online

 

[Merc1]

This would be really something if they did. If this is true Mercedes must have made some kind of break through reguarding design/packaging or something. The new V8s I can see, you can get 500hp out of a 4L turbo V8 if you throw the kitchen sink at it. This would be a dream come true if the next E-Class is a gorgeous, lightweight car with a I6 with around 350hp for the "E350" version. Also and I6 makes packaging AWD more of an effort too. Mercedes is really going to flex its engineering muscle if this is true about an I6.



M

 

[Wolfgang]

JESMB, who is usually knowledgeable about MB engine rumors, confirmed Mercedes-Benz is considering the straight six. Mercedes seems to believe given the moved targets with more focus on extremely low consumption, an I6 configuration might offer inherent advantages with regards to vibrations and low consumption.

Read for yourself in this rough google translated article:


MB to return to straight six?

It compress the rumors that Mercedes later brings back six cylinder gasoline engines range in style on the market.
On the Internet platforms and inter alia the AutoBild reported that as early as the year 2015, a 6-cylinder in series, the Mercedes engine range complements.

But why does this happen?

The six-cylinder has the advantage of a rounder vibration poorer run.

Why they had chosen in the past against a straight six cylinder?

With the introduction of the M112 Mercedes-line six-cylinder was sent into retirement. It gave the new M112 for a V6 with a bad bank angle of 90 °. This fact was due to the production. The M112 was running on the same bands of the M113 (V8) from the bank. Vibrations were compensated by balancing shafts. Such balance shafts naturally increase the mechanical friction. Under BlueEfficiency aspects, this is not so favorable. The all-new V6 (M276) of the bank angle was reduced to 60 °. This was the first order vibration balancer shaft to be omitted (reduces friction and improves fuel consumption).

The advantages of a 6-cylinder inline engine compared to the current M276 with 60 ° bank angle that is already low. But the series motor can be charged more, because the cylinders are all in series. A V-engine would be installed, for example (ie per cylinder bank 2 loader), which is not only expensive, but also brings with it a higher weight for a 4 exhaust turbocharging theoretically loader.

In the past, it was decided for two main reasons for the in-line six cylinder: product family with the V8 (cheaper production costs), and reduced installation length. In the first generation M-Class (since 1997) was the then 320 CDI (OM613/OM648) will not be installed because it was too long for the engine compartment. It was only installed the R5 (ML 270 CDI) and the shorter V8 CDI. Even in the former W203 (C class) was at 270 CDI circuit. The 320 CDI came with the introduction of the V6 CDI (OM642) in the C-Class. The front end of many Mercedes models were not designed by the physical size for a straight six-cylinder.

Currently, however, the targets move. I.e. It is extremely important that a vehicle consumes very little and thus the fleet consumption of manufacturer is maintained.

The result is that the series of smaller 6-cylinder disappears and is replaced by smaller 4-cylinder turbocharged. Conceivably, this could, for instance for the next C-Class (W205 from 2014) and the next SLK (about 2018). That would mean that the 6 cylinders are built only from the E-class, where larger engine rooms are available. Due to the absence of balancer shafts, on downsizing and 3.0-liter turbocharged 6-cylinder would thus again be economical.

But 2015 is the six-cylinder to be expected but not yet, as the brand-new V6 M276 only since January 2011 on the market and 2013/2014 the "400" based on the M276 as V6 biturbo in the series E, ML, GL, S and SL is to be introduced. He has (ask for spontaneous) takes a small loader exhaust for each bank. Targeted to 330-340 hp and just over 460 NM. And so we developed an engine not to send him back to 1 to 1.5 years in retirement.

Source: www.jesmb.de

 

[Wolfgang]

Some figures for the engine balance, taken from the Bosch Handbook. Couldn't find it with google.

 

[Wolfgang]

I read an interesting tidbit in the current issue 'Wheels' magazine here in Oz. A chief MB engineer revealed at Frankfurt that the next generation of 6 Cylinder diesel and petrol engines will be INLINE 6's and not V6's. The explanation was:

1. Inline 6's have a strong history at Mercedes
2. They don't have refinement issues inherent in a V6
3. It works well with both MB and Infiniti's product plans (The engines will be sold to Infinity)
4. They can now make them lighter and more compact than previously
5. Greater differentiation from AUDI

The inline 6's are due in 2015.

This will be quite a development for MB engines, as the first V6's always appeared to be a retrograde step only corrected by the current generation, and I suspect they've got big things planned.

Update. Infiniti, Daimler exploring joint engine production in North America.

Daimler, Infiniti Eye Joint Plant In North America - Report

Daimler is looking to expand its partnership with Renault-Nissan by building a plant in North America, according to German daily Financial Times Deutschland, citing people close to the German automaker.

The two companies are looking at joint production and a decision is expected later this year, the newspaper said.

Read more: Daimler, Infiniti Eye Joint Plant In North America - Report | Fox Business


PS. Mercedes engine plants in Europe run at or over capacity at present.

 

[Giannis]

Some figures for the engine balance, taken from the Bosch Handbook. Couldn't find it with google.

Wolfgang, could you please tell which book is this?

Thanks!

 

[K-A]

Shiiiit. Here we go again, M-B partnering with a lesser brand. It will do absolutely nothing for them in terms of anything besides financial bottom line. Products won't get better, products will be less exclusive, and their cache will be lowered into "overpriced Nissan". Exactly what happened in the Chrysler days (everyone calling M-B's "Chryslers", etc.).

 

[Merc1]

K/A you worry too much. You don't even know the details here yet. I don't think we're going to see anything from the C-Class on up shared with anyone. Mercedes (again as with Chrysler) is trying to get something at the low end, not the middle to high end. There won't be an E-Class on shared platform with a Nissan/Infiniti.


M

 

[K-A]

Hopefully. I don't care about the lower models as much, so that'd be all good I guess, lol.

 

[Wolfgang]

Wolfgang, could you please tell which book is this?

Thanks!

Giannis:

Bosch Automotive Handbook, 7th Edition - SAE BOOKSTORE

 

[K-A]

.... Wait, correction. Merc, I think that there was a mention in another (or maybe this? Too lazy to check) Thread that M-B stated that "Luxury Models are not out of the question", i.e implying that M-B is open to sharing/co-developing their higher end models, or elements thereof, with Nissan.

 

[Merc1]

I think there was that comment, but my point is K/A is that stirring up all this about it now is pointless. Too much misinformation gets started this way - on the net. Until the day they do it, I wouldn't even worry about it.

M

 

[K-A]

No point to really, indeed. Enjoy it while I can, and if/when they start building M-B Nissans, I can start talking myself into BMW (or.... Audi, but that's gonna take more time). Or just spend even more money and go to Porsche, hoping that VW hasn't ruined them by then.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Can't wait for the I6! Hope it's as butter smooth as the BMW I6 was.