New Mercedes-Benz 4.7 Twin-Turbo V8 and New 3.5 V6

[Merc1]

As always Wolf, good stuff. The 2012 S550 is going to be the perfect S-Class. The E350 will finally get the V6 it deserves.


M

 

[Huckfeldt]

No news yet about turbo version of the new V6 ?

Article said there will be a V6 CL-class but not until now. Maybe for the 2013 S-coupe ?

 

[Huckfeldt]

Of the 3 Germans, Mercedes is the only one without a turbo/supercharged 3.0L V6. Is there no insider info about this ?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Of the 3 Germans, Mercedes is the only one without a turbo/supercharged 3.0L V6. Is there no insider info about this ?

BMW doesn't have a V6.

 

[Huckfeldt]

BMW doesn't have a V6.

My bad. I meant Merc is the only one without a forced induction 3.0L six-cylinder engine. Btw Betty, are you aware of the carbon build up problem of the Audi R8 (more specifically, of all RS4/R8 engines) ? Look it up, many discussions about the problem. Might be handy one day.

 

[Wolfgang]

No news yet about turbo version of the new V6 ?

Article said there will be a V6 CL-class but not until now. Maybe for the 2013 S-coupe ?

the SL might have it by 2014 according to http://www.jesmb.de

SL 400 (M276 DE 35 AL) ca. 350 PS / 450 NM, 6-Zylinder Turbo, 2014

Not sure if the Daimler IHI joint venture will make the turbo? They currently supply VW, MINI, E-Class turbos etc..

http://www.germancarforum.com/merce...orates-diamler-manufacture-turbochargers.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/merce...imler-wants-europe-s-turbocharger-leader.html

IHI Charging Systems International - ihi-csi.de

 

[Huckfeldt]

GREAT, THANKS FOR THE INFO Wolfgang !

So it's the 3.5L not the 3.0L. Hmm...

 

[Merc1]

I'm sure that when Mercedes does turbo their V6, it will easily outpower both BMW and Audi's 6's. They know they have to make up for being late to the party.


M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I read an interesting tidbit in the current issue 'Wheels' magazine here in Oz. A chief MB engineer revealed at Frankfurt that the next generation of 6 Cylinder diesel and petrol engines will be INLINE 6's and not V6's. The explanation was:

1. Inline 6's have a strong history at Mercedes
2. They don't have refinement issues inherent in a V6
3. It works well with both MB and Infiniti's product plans (The engines will be sold to Infinity)
4. They can now make them lighter and more compact than previously
5. Greater differentiation from AUDI

The inline 6's are due in 2015.

This will be quite a development for MB engines, as the first V6's always appeared to be a retrograde step only corrected by the current generation, and I suspect they've got big things planned.

 

[bum-man]

So the MOVE generation V6's will be used for less than a generation. I'm doubting this considering the amount of money they invested into them.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

The way I see it:
1. MOVE may have been slightly compromised because they did start off with Chrysler in the equation
2. By 2015 they would have been in production about 6 years
3. The expense of an entirely new generation in such a short time frame may be justified because of the economies of scale reached with the sales to Infinity
4 The pace of advancement in engine technology has become increasingly rapid. 'MOVE' is MB's belated answer to what BMW and Audi served up a couple of years ago (again due to Chrysler issues. They still don't have a turbo 6).
5. It may just mean the first iteration of the inline 6's will debut in 2015 with more to follow in the coming years.

It could very well be wrong, but it's a very interesting proposition.

 

[klier]

So BMW is moving towards V6, and MB towards I6?
Why can't I believe all this?

And BTW, big LOL at point # 1. I6 have history @ MB alright, but the last one made by MB was in a time incomparable to this one. They might as well have never made one before.

 

[K-A]

An I6 would be great news. Also, it would indeed differentiate M-B's 6's from the almost exclusively "V" 6 cylinder world right now.

The new 3.5L is apparently a marvel in V6 engineering due to its optimal (and rare) bank angle, but an I6 would really be another step. My only issue is that most I6's I've heard I don't find aurally pleasant.

 

[Wolfgang]

^^^ can not confirm or deny 2015 inline six rumors.

But note Daimler switched to I6 with their commercial engines recently, and may be using development synergies?

Earlier this year they introduced this truck I6 with 510 hp. Pics from ATZ.

 

[Tarek]

Can't wait for this..

 

[Merc1]

Am i dreaming or what? This is unbelievable that Mercedes would go back to I6s. In this time of trying to save weight, adding crush space under the hood, and cost cutting. I just can't see it. This would mean that Mercedes' cars are going to get bigger and heavier doesn't it?? I don't believe this.

So the next S-Class, E and C will have I6s instead of V6s, I just don't believe it. Mercedes must have really come up with something different in order to pull this off nowadays.

This could be true though, because on the other hand they didn't replace the 2.5L or the 3.0L V6s, only the 3.5 is new so this could happen, but I won't believe it until I see it.


M

 

[Centurion]

Inlines are great. Especially for FWD models and given that MB are on course to expand the A and B-Class to a whole host of car models, inline 6 engines will be a great assets to the higher end models.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

So BMW is moving towards V6, and MB towards I6?
Why can't I believe all this?

And BTW, big LOL at point # 1. I6 have history @ MB alright, but the last one made by MB was in a time incomparable to this one. They might as well have never made one before.

Yes Klier because only BMW has a history with inline 6's and no one else should dare try to make one...blah...blah...blah...all hail BMW the eternal gaurdian of inline 6 engines and master of the universe.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Am i dreaming or what? This is unbelievable that Mercedes would go back to I6s. In this time of trying to save weight, adding crush space under the hood, and cost cutting. I just can't see it. This would mean that Mercedes' cars are going to get bigger and heavier doesn't it?? I don't believe this.

So the next S-Class, E and C will have I6s instead of V6s, I just don't believe it. Mercedes must have really come up with something different in order to pull this off nowadays.

This could be true though, because on the other hand they didn't replace the 2.5L or the 3.0L V6s, only the 3.5 is new so this could happen, but I won't believe it until I see it.


M

Apparently new tech allows them to deal with packaging and weigh issues. But I don't have the slightest bit of engineering knowledge to know if this is possible.

 

[Wolfgang]

A truck engine is not suited for mercedes autos.

True.


Some reasons why the trucks switched from V to I6:


QUOTE
Bernhard Heil, vice-president of Daimler's powertrain division, explains that Mercedes' move from a 'V' to an in-line engine configuration was driven largely by the needs and related costs of today's emission and fuel-efficiency driven technology. In anticipation of Euro 6 emission limits requiring both SCR and EGR for NOx control, a 'V' layout would have meant much more complex routeing for the recirculated exhaust gas, with a doubling up of the cooling and EGR control componentry.

Similarly, twin turbochargers would have been necessary and a doubling up of the common-rail fuel system installation. Bosch's APCRS stepped-piston-intensified common-rail fuel system sees its first production application in Daimler's new heavy-duty diesels. It generates up to 2,100bar pressure at the injector nozzle from quite modest maximum rail pressure levels of around 850bar.

New Mercedes heavies will be unveiled in 2010 - 12/6/2007 - Road Transport
### end of quote