A1/S1 New Audi A1.

[bln123]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Exactly. A3, 1er & A-class are in the same price segment. Meaning base A1/A2 would be priced below this class. Something in a base MINI range or a top-end Polo, Clio, Fiesta price segment etc ... I have no doubts it will sell well, but image wise I doubt it will be be such a succes as MINI or eg. Scion in US, or probably upcoming Fiat 500. Why? No retro legacy (Mini, F500), no funky design (Scion xB).

I couldnt agree with you more.
The only point I want to make is why the new A1/A2 will sell better than the old A2. It will be sportier (or at least have a sporty image), it will be lifestyle (just like the Mini) and hopefully look a lot cooler...also, Audi's image as a premium manufacturer has grown, which should help

 

[Yperion]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Exactly. A3, 1er & A-class are in the same price segment. Meaning base A1/A2 would be priced below this class.

Not true. A class is at least 2-3k euro cheaper than A3.

I don't understand how Audi thinks the be exclusive with this car when at least 3 other cars share the same technique....

Mini, on the other hand, is one of a kind, and unique.

It's not about which car is unique but which is better for the consumer.

 

[EnI]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

In Germany (and also around the Europe) comparably equipped 1er, A-class & A3 are in the same price range. Eg. (German prices incl. VAT):

116i (115HP) - "Basic model": €20,650
A3 Sportback 1.6 FSI (115HP) - "Attraction": €21,300
A170 (116HP) - "Classic": €20,822

So, A3 is more expensive, yet the difference is €650 in case vs 1er, and €478 vs A-class.

Yet, the cheapest models available are:

116i 5dr (115HP) - "Basic model": €20,650
A3 3dr 1.6 (102HP) "Attrection": €19,100
A150 3dr (95HP) "Classic": €18,096

So, in the worst case A3 is €1,000 more expensive than A-class. While - as proved - comparable versions have almost same prices.


Regarding what is best for a consumer: tastes are different. Some prefer top-notch quality, other retro image, some versatility, other superb driving dynamics, some hi-tech features etc. Sometimes image (intangible factor) is more important than some tangible factors eg. performance, quality of materials, best reliabilty. Today having a great product is not enough, but it helps. Image is that added value that sells in premium segment ... And some other intangible factors too.

I have no doubt - I say it again - A1/A2 will be a suberb car in every aspect, and it will selll well in some markets (eg. UK & Germany). Yet I'm very curios in which exact price segment will it be positioned. Eg. MINI can even overlap with 1er since they are different products & brands: FWD funky retro go-kart MINI, vs RWD sporty elegant little BMW. But Audi will have to make A1/A3 very distinctive from A3.

Like I said: I expect A1/A2 to be in a price range of top-end Polo, Ibica, Clio, 207, Corsa, Fiesta ... And I guess many will rather go with basic Audi A1/A2 (premium image!) than top-end "economy" models like Polo.

Still image wise I guess it wont be so special like MINI, VW Beetle, Fiat 500, Scion xB: it will still be an Audi. A little Audi with all the familiar Audi design features. Image wiseI'm affraid it will lack that special funky factor, and will end as a premium alternative to Polo, Corsa, Clio etc. Still - as I said - many will go with that despite lacking funky image. But I really doubt it will end as icon like TT, or like previous A2 was aiming for.

 

[Yperion]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

In Germany (and also around the Europe) comparably equipped 1er, A-class & A3 are in the same price range. Eg. (German prices incl. VAT):

116i (115HP) - "Basic model": €20,650
A3 Sportback 1.6 FSI (115HP) - "Attraction": €21,300
A170 (116HP) - "Classic": €20,822

You forgot A150 which is around 18-19k euro.

Anyway it was not my decision for A2 to be build but i 'm sure Audi has done a lot of research before taking such an important step.

 

[EnI]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

You forgot A150 which is around 18-19k euro.

Obviously You haven't read my ENTIRE post!

 

[klier]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

It's not about which car is unique but which is better for the consumer.

Unique usually means better in car-land

 

[Yperion]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Sorry you wrote too much and you got me confused.

Anyway there is space for A2 in my opinion just like there is space for Mini in BMW's lineup.

 

[klier]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Of course there is.

Audi will not make the car if there is no space for it. It will be leagues better than cars with the same platform anyways, as always with Audi

 

[EnI]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Sorry you wrote too much and you got me confused.

Anyway there is space for A2 in my opinion just like there is space for Mini in BMW's lineup.

Apology accepted.

I guess when new A3 comes out it will be bigger & positioned a bit higher: to make space for A2.

Yet first time Audi's first attempt of going premium in sub-compact segment kind a failed with Mk1 A2. As did MB's with Smart ForFour - despite ForTwo has been a successful project - sales wise. Yet MINI had no such problems - despite having high price. ForTwo & Mini are something special: either funky (both), retro (Mini), super-small (Smart), or special individual & customized design (both). Yet FourFor was too common - despite Smart design tweaks - and thus a failure. Eg. Mini Traveller will have funky tail gate, suicide side door, retro Mini design, heritage(!), etc.

But what will be A2 special advantages? Except Audi badge?

I just want to say nothing is granted. Lower in segments you go, more risky the project is - also financially, since car has to make a profit, yet prices can go only up to certain limit (eg. to be compatible, and to not to interfere with next model in model line).

Eg. even some economy car manufactures have failed & or have quite a difficulties when going lower in segments - eg. in mini-compact segment.

 

[Yperion]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Enilab i know that you are great in market analysis and most of the things you said are very valid. On the other hand who would imagined 10 years ago when Audi introduced first a premium hatchback (A3) that it would be so succesful? I guess they are trying to replicate the same thing now, to go downmarket before BMW and Mercedes do.

That does not mean that i approve what Audi is doing, for me A3 is enough.

 

[EnI]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

That does not mean that i approve what Audi is doing, for me A3 is enough.

I have no problems with Audi plans ... Yet I just wander where are the limits of going down-market.

Audi A0? Smart ForOne? Mini Half?

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

I think i understand where EniLab is comming from.

For a premium brand like Audi, going downstream with a lower priced product is a very risky investment. Not only do you risk cheapening the brand, but the profit margins in the lower segments are extremely thin. If the investment doesn't work out, then the company simply wastes a lot of valuable resources i.e money. See the Smart ForTwo and A2.

I know that BMW has tried to offset this risk by offering "lower-priced" products that offer something special. The MINI has its worldwide nostalgic brand following, and the 1 Series has rear wheel drive. These mentioned vehicles have that special something that generates value for consumers. Hence the strong sales for MINI and 1 series.

If Audi were to go down this path with the new A2, it needs to offer something unique and different, otherwise it'll just become another "me-too" car like a Polo or Ibiza or Astra.

Having a high quality interior is a good start, as is having some desirable styling. But remember that if Audi were to share the same platform with the Ibiza or Polo then it would have to develop this car at a cost, and it could compromise quality and restrict styling.

 

[bln123]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

I agree that the A1/A2 will lack that heritage, that the Mini has (and the Mini is its main rival).
But the A1/A2 will distinct itself fromt he rest of the 150hp+ cars in the A0 segment with higher quality, the typical Audi design and a sporty appeal.

As for the lower profit margins in that segment: well, looking at Mini, I doubt it. If you have a distinct quality (listed above) I think demand will be pretty big and therefore prices and margins can be kept realitvely high.

We are all guessing a lot, since there is no picture from exterior/interior of a close to production A1/A2 obviously, but if Audi can build it in a way that is desirable for the customer the car should become a success

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

As for the lower profit margins in that segment: well, looking at Mini, I doubt it. If you have a distinct quality (listed above) I think demand will be pretty big and therefore prices and margins can be kept realitvely high.

I can assure you that the profit margins are VERY thin in the lower segment. The Mk1 MINI was profitable, but it only became profitable well into the car's lifecycle.

I doubt Audi would set a high price for the next A2- It would have learnt from its mistakes with the Mk1 A2.

If a premium company is going downstream (sell lower-priced cars) the best way for the investment to be profitable is to expand the lineup horizontally i.e derive variants off the core model to spread the costs. Like with the MINI, creating variants such as a convertible and Clubman out of the 3rd door, the costs of development can be spread throughout an entire model range.

It's good that Audi will share a platform with the Seat and possibly the Polo since it would go a long way in reducing cots.

 

[bln123]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Bla bla bla

I just want to give my last point on the A1/A2 (for this hour ):
The car has not been decided to be build so far, so don't get too excited just yet.

 

[Yperion]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Ok since the title is somehow missleading let me get a few things straight.

VW is not using "platforms" anymore with the old meaning of the term. Today's "platforms" are "flexible" meaning that Audi can take the work VW has done for new Polo (and Ibiza) and adjust it to match it's own specifications.
That means in other words that the wheelbase , the height, or the lenght of A2 might not be the same with new Polo if Audi decides so. Furthermore like i said above the rear suspension is not going to be a torsion beam like in Polo but a multi link so the A2 will be upmarket. Also the buld quality will be in the same high standards as any other Audi.

 

[bln123]

Re: New Audi A2 could share platform with Seat Ibiza.

Volkswagen never used the plattform-strategy in a way that all cars on one plattform had the same bodystyle.
The corporation has switched to a modul-strategy, which means its more flexible indeed. For example, the Eos has got engines and gear boxes from the Golf, bodyparts from the Passat, suspension I don't know about and, of course, its own roof.
The A1/A2 will be mainly based on the Polo plattform though. Maybe suspension and bits of the interior will be from the Golf/A3 plattform, but most of the body/engine will mainly be Polo/Ibiza/Fabia.

Still, the question remains if they are really going to do it, since the car has not been announced yet.

 

[Yperion]

Audi A1 confirmed for 2009.

According to German magazine "Wirtschaftwoche", Audi A1 got the green light for production which will start in 2009.

Note that the name of the car has been reported to be A2 from some other sources.

German Car Blog has more details: http://www.germancarblog.com/2....html

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Re: New Audi A1/A2. The Mini Killer?

So until then, we'll keep on talikeg ?!
The waiting is going to kill me.

 

[bln123]

Re: New Audi A1/A2. The Mini Killer?

Yep, it seems like they are going to build it.

My Info was obviously surpassed very quickly