S-Class (W222/C217/A217) Mercedes-Maybach S600 Previewed

[KiwiRob]

Interestingly but the latest & last Daimler cars were manufactured, marketed & sold by JAGUAR (Jaguar Cars bought Daimler Cars from BSA in 1960). And since then Jaguar (owned then by BMH, followed by British Leyland, then Ford and now Tata) have owned rights to Daimler trademark - and today Jaguar Land Rover Ltd (co)owns the rights to Daimler trademark together with Daimler AG ... at least in EU, while in US the right expired in 2009 or was refused to by registered by JLR. Btw, the Jaguar's right to Daimler trademark in EU expires in April 2016. And I doubt Daimler AG will extend the contract for trademark co-ownership with JLR / Tata after that date.

Regarding MB's chance to directly rival Bentley & Rolls-Royce: Aston Martin (Lagonda). But first Daimler AG has to acquire AM.

If you read the dismissal of the rights to the Daimler trademark in the US, I would also believe Daimler AG would not have the rights either. What applied to JLR owned Daimler also applies to Daimler AG, the US patent office concluded that Damiler was a surname.

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/ttabvue-77035168-EXA-16.pdf

If JLR and Daimler AG co own the rights that means they co own them, which I would would think means Daimler AG's right probably expires at the same time as JLR's. Prior to the co ownership it appears tat Jaguar were the 100% owners of the Daimler brand. This is backed up by Daimler AG having to buy the right to use the Daimler name from Ford in 2007.

Incidentally, the term ‘Daimler’ used in some parts of the world to refer to a Mercedes-Benz vehicle is not correct: Gottlieb Daimler sold the rights to the name ‘Daimler’ for automobiles. That is why, since 1907, Daimlers have been manufactured in Coventry, UK, by the Daimler Motor Company. Since 1960, they have been identical to Jaguars. Currently, having acquired Jaguar in 2008, Tata Motors possesses the rights to the Daimler brand. In 2007, DaimlerChrysler AG acquired the rights to use the Daimler name from Ford, at the time the owner of the Jaguar and Daimler brands, so that the company could rename itself Daimler AG.

http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-614822-1-1419269-1-0-0-0-0-0-11702-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

 

[KiwiRob]

Regarding MB's chance to directly rival Bentley & Rolls-Royce: Aston Martin (Lagonda). But first Daimler AG has to acquire AM.

Him of the tash said no to this last week.

 

[SDNR]

.

Facel, Voisin, (why them they built only a handful of cars)

because I particularly love those ones

Dusenburg (also include Pierce Arrow, Packard, Cord, Auburn if you're going American)

You're right, I thought about Pierce Arrow .....the car for US Presidents at one time.

Cord is one of my favourite cars of all time

Interestingly but the latest & last Daimler cars were manufactured, marketed & sold by JAGUAR (Jaguar Cars bought Daimler Cars from BSA in 1960). And since then Jaguar (owned then by BMH, followed by British Leyland, then Ford and now Tata) have owned rights to Daimler trademark - and today Jaguar Land Rover Ltd (co)owns the rights to Daimler trademark together with Daimler AG ... at least in EU, while in US the right expired in 2009 or was refused to by registered by JLR. Btw, the Jaguar's right to Daimler trademark in EU expires in April 2016. And I doubt Daimler AG will extend the contract for trademark co-ownership with JLR / Tata after that date.

Thanks for this interesting info Tine.

Regarding MB's chance to directly rival Bentley & Rolls-Royce: Aston Martin (Lagonda). But first Daimler AG has to acquire AM.

Lol, you never know, it might happen one day

 

[klier]

I need a bug spray

 

[SDNR]

IMO I think there is only one other brand which could come back from the dead and play in the RR and Bentley market

That would be a great comeback.

There were design proposals for a Successor to the DS420 Limousine ........might have been quite cool.

 

[Wolfgang]

2016 Mercedes-Maybach S600: First Look

• "It's actually going to be more normal than everybody thinks," Mercedes spokesman Chris Bokich told us. The "guidance that we're giving is approximately $200,000, so it's not going to be the most expensive S-Class."

• That doesn't mean Maybach will stick to just the S-Class. "It could, in the future, produce its own vehicle," Bokich said, noting that the new AMG-GT sports car — from AMG, another Mercedes sub-brand — isn't based on any existing Benz.

Source: Cars.com

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I think another brand which could create a genuine competitor to the RR Phantom would be Bugatti.

 

[Gianclaudio]

I think another brand which could create a genuine competitor to the RR Phantom would be Bugatti.

Always found interesting how many attempts at making "Ferrari" (the sport side of the high end market) there are and how nobody except Maybach went to challenge the ultra luxury side... Bugatti indeed has a rich history, perhaps the richest history in fact, to be a player in the ultimate luxury market. (although of course, present Bugatti has nothing to do with the original one)
I remember an attempt of coming back from Hispano-Suiza, and yes, it was a supercar project....

Although not on the high end of the market, I would love to see a proper DS19 successor from Citroën, for the odd, left field characters. The C6 almost was.

 

[KiwiRob]

.

Thanks for this interesting info Tine.

Except some of his info is misleading, I don't believe Daimler AG could refuse JLR an extension, they (Daimler AG) had to buy the rights from Ford to use the name in 2007. If you read the reason why the patent office declined JLR request to register the name this would also apply to Daimler AG, it's a person's surname, so JLR can still use Daimler in the US they just can't stop anyone else using the name.

I think another brand which could create a genuine competitor to the RR Phantom would be Bugatti.

VAG don't need Bugatti to build an RR competitor, they have Bentley for that.

 

[63Bonneville]

I'm looking forward to the debut of the Mercedes-Maybach S600 at the 2014 Los Angeles Auto Show this week. Down the road, going into 2015, I'm looking forward to the even larger and more top-tier Pullman variant. The only thing, regarding earlier posts and reports, I feel that the Mercedes-Maybach is greater than an additional 200mm in the wheelbase, and/or overall length. I would think, from what I see in the interior shot and the test-mule, that it has to be anywhere from 10-15" longer, perhaps a foot or so. I'm sure that we'll all find out in a couple of days from when I'm posting this.

 

[Wolfgang]

^ Let's compare the Mercedes-Benz S 600 and Mercedes-Maybach S 600.

 

[kingjr9000]

You know what, I can fully see the difference in center console length and quilted leather and don't forget, twin-footrests. I would gladly pay for the mercedes-maybach.

 

[SDNR]

Always found interesting how many attempts at making "Ferrari" (the sport side of the high end market) there are and how nobody except Maybach went to challenge the ultra luxury side... Bugatti indeed has a rich history, perhaps the richest history in fact, to be a player in the ultimate luxury market. (although of course, present Bugatti has nothing to do with the original one)
I remember an attempt of coming back from Hispano-Suiza, and yes, it was a supercar project....

Although not on the high end of the market, I would love to see a proper DS19 successor from Citroën, for the odd, left field characters. The C6 almost was.

I'm not sure why VAG have not done this already.

However, they do need to be realistic, making it the most expensive is not enough to make it the best.

And never forget, Bugatti do not have a successful history of building limousines. Bugatti were burned badly the one time they tried to upstage Rolls-Royce: The Royale model nearly bankrupted the company .....and they only sold 6 cars!

 

[kingjr9000]

I'm not sure why VAG have not done this already.

However, they do need to be realistic, making it the most expensive is not enough to make it the best.

And never forget, Bugatti do not have a successful history of building limousines. Bugatti were burned badly the one time they tried to upstage Rolls-Royce.

Please don't take this as offensive, but if they don't have a history in limousines, then what was the type 57?

 

[hannaz]

Please don't take this as offensive, but if they don't have a history in limousines, then what was the type 57?

kingjr9000; Type 57 wasn't limo, but again a sports car with three body types.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Type_57

The model you mention I guess would be Type 41
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Royale

 

[SDNR]

That's correct Hannaz, the 57 was usually a sports coupé.

Bugatti were not traditionally competitors with Rolls-Royce .......but there certainly was a big rivalry with Bentley.

Ettore Bugatti was very competitive with W.0. Bentley.

The Type 41 (also known as Royale) was a major commercial failure for Bugatti .....in a way that makes Daimler's recent experiences with Maybach look exceedingly positive.


In fact, if we're talking limousines, the USA had several outstanding Rolls-Royce rivals ........and Rolls-Royce even had a factory in the USA before WW2.

 

[SDNR]

Please don't take this as offensive, but if they don't have a history in limousines, then what was the type 57?

you have raised a good point.

Although the 57 was not a limousine, it was a very prestigious coupé .......so it could be argued it was a rival for Roll-Royce's "sportier" cars.

But the 41 was conceived to rival the Phantom I

The Rolls-Royce Phantom II was launched during the short production life of the Bugatti 41. The Phantom II is still considered by many to be the car the cemented the Rolls-Royce reputation.

Like the Bugatti 41, the Phantom II was sold as a chassis only (built in England and The USA) and a coachbuilder would make the body separately.

 

[kingjr9000]

SDNR, I can see why everyone loved that you returned, it's because you're a very knowledgeable historian about cars. It's nice to have someone with your expertise about automotive history on here.

 

[klier]

Interesting info indeed, but lets get back to the Maybach

I edited Rob, didn't want to create a stir. I still have these bugs swarming me.

 

[SDNR]

Well that's a very nice thing to say. However, my "expertise" is, in reality, very limited to things that I have been interested in.

I generally do not to get involved with subjects I know nothing about .......I read the technical posts by some of the guys here and feel completely out of my depth. I have learned a great deal from people on this forum.

Thanks kingjr9000