Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Swissbob]

Maintaining these older cars and driving them are the true bosses in disguise though. The one driving the Brooklands is really rich.

I agree, the maintenance costs are high, I pay 5k/yr for insurance and taxes alone on my V220 S600.

 

[Serpens]

The cost of the failure of the first gen EQ models is likely equal to a brand new V12 every 10 years until the 22nd century.

You're welcome for that insight.

V12 hybrid now please. They have infinite pockets for R&D there in Stuttgart, do something useful with it for once like you used to in the past.

Be that as it may, the EQ project had the potential to be a money maker but was poor in execution. Adding a V12 hybrid doesn't even have the potential to be a major money maker. It's just a poor investment with people who cannot even afford one brand new clamoring for it.

I do love a good silly Mercedes side project, but this is just too old school for me to care.

 

[klier]

Be that as it may, the EQ project had the potential to be a money maker but was poor in execution. Adding a V12 hybrid doesn't even have the potential to be a major money maker.

Having a V12 isn't a money maker but a 'goodwill maker' that sells the A classes and C classes in the longer term.

"The brand with the mighty V12 engine makes cars I can afford too, lets check it out"

It's just a poor investment with people who cannot even afford one brand new clamoring for it.

And instead they buy a C class and feel good about themselves.

 

[Dopebouy]

Having a V12 isn't a money maker but a 'goodwill maker' that sells the A classes and C classes in the longer term.

"The brand with the mighty V12 engine makes cars I can afford too, lets check it out"

Exactly V12s are Halo Cars, They help shape the brand’s image

 

[Swissbob]

Having a V12 isn't a money maker but a 'goodwill maker' that sells the A classes and C classes in the longer term.

"The brand with the mighty V12 engine makes cars I can afford too, lets check it out"



And instead they buy a C class and feel good about themselves.

You absolutely nailed it.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Having a V12 isn't a money maker but a 'goodwill maker' that sells the A classes and C classes in the longer term.

"The brand with the mighty V12 engine makes cars I can afford too, lets check it out"



And instead they buy a C class and feel good about themselves.

I mean that's why they haven't binned the V12 entirely. It exists in markets where people buy them.
And I would imagine (or at least hope), if you asked for a custom order V12 Maybach in Europe, they'd give you one, as long as you're happy to pay the inordinate taxes. I suppose that's what the S680 Guard is for though.

What would be REALLY interesting would be another V12 Black Series like the SL65 back in the day, but with AMGs current chassis engineering experience. Or I guess a Mythos.

That engine isn't really built for sports car applications, but Pagani seems to enjoy it's boundless torque.

 

[Serpens]

Having a V12 isn't a money maker but a 'goodwill maker' that sells the A classes and C classes in the longer term.

"The brand with the mighty V12 engine makes cars I can afford too, lets check it out"



And instead they buy a C class and feel good about themselves.

HAHA. You're in the wrong year my friend. The SL65, S65, and G65 languished on lots here last decade. Halo effect my ass. The AMG GT Black Series, Maybach S-class (with the V12 in this particular case), and the AMG ONE serve as halo cars. Pure cylinder count isn't what it used to be outside of heritage vehicles (Rolls Royce, certain Ferraris and Lamborghinis).

I mean that's why they haven't binned the V12 entirely. It exists in markets where people buy them.
And I would imagine (or at least hope), if you asked for a custom order V12 Maybach in Europe, they'd give you one, as long as you're happy to pay the inordinate taxes. I suppose that's what the S680 Guard is for though.

And they only buy them in certain circumstances, like the demand for the V12 in the Maybach.

 

[klier]

HAHA. You're in the wrong year my friend. The SL65, S65, and G65 languished on lots here last decade. Halo effect my ass.

The people who can't afford a new V12 will not be able to afford and maintain a second hand V12. You laugh in capitals, but didn't even get the point.

And I would imagine (or at least hope), if you asked for a custom order V12 Maybach in Europe, they'd give you one, as long as you're happy to pay the inordinate taxes. I suppose that's what the S680 Guard is for though.

That's not quite how it works because the V12 version has not been certified for the EU and it doesn't meet EU7 emmision standards.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The people who can't afford a new V12 will not be able to afford and maintain a second hand V12. You laugh in capitals, but didn't even get the point.



That's not quite how it works because the V12 version has not been certified for the EU and it doesn't meet EU7 emmision standards.

Fair enough. So this means you can't even privately own a non-compliant vehicle - even if you are willing to pay the taxes?

If that's the case, then fair enough. Sometimes that type of aggressive legislation is beneficial to use in the long term.

 

[Design FIRST]

Mid-1970's series II and 1980's series III Jaguar XJ12's were and remain pretty sweet. Provided that one had very deep pockets and a very competent shop mechanic. Fastest more or less unit volume luxury sedan (the series II) in it's day, only to be eventually toppled by the W116 500SEL 6.9. Well maintained and very clean series III cars can be had for approx. 30K Euros nowadays.

My "V12 Pitch". Very little interest in the current sedans with them, really.

 

[Merc1]

I get both sides of the argument for the V12. I would like to see the V12 either updated or a new one made from the I6. A true SL680, GLS 680 and continuing S680 would move enough of them to make a new or updated V12 viable imo. Even an ultimate luxury focused G680 would be nice to see. America, the oil rich states, and some other regions would buy, I think.

M

 

[lukeswiss]

Remember when Mercedes-Benz was like “this is for you, world” and the world was like “yeah, nah”

 

[AndreB]

That's the best angle of the EQS.

 

[lukeswiss]

That's the best angle of the EQS.

Agreed, it looks quite sleek here.

 

[Ozy]

That's the best angle of the EQS.

The exact angle someone has from a bus, to those it might be attractive indeed

 

[Serpens]

I get both sides of the argument for the V12. I would like to see the V12 either updated or a new one made from the I6. A true SL680, GLS 680 and continuing S680 would move enough of them to make a new or updated V12 viable imo. Even an ultimate luxury focused G680 would be nice to see. America, the oil rich states, and some other regions would buy, I think.

M

People bought V12 SLs in every decreasing numbers even when they were available and the model line was popular.

The V12 SUV scenario is interesting because demand has traditionally been tepid. Range Rover abandoned the idea early on into BMW ownership and blowback for Bentley discontinuing the W12 in the Bentayga was minimal. Most customers were predictably opting for the V8 anyways. It would be nice to see though.

 

[klier]

Fair enough. So this means you can't even privately own a non-compliant vehicle - even if you are willing to pay the taxes?

You can own it but only use it on the track
It has to go through some sort of TUV approval, which it'll fail. Can't even park it in a public street.

EU7 goes into full effect for passenger cars by the end of '27. So it might just be doable actually.

 

[lukeswiss]

You can own it but only use it on the track
It has to go through some sort of TUV approval, which it'll fail. Can't even park it in a public street.

EU7 goes into full effect for passenger cars by the end of '27. So it might just be doable actually.

It looks like Switzerland adopt this as well. I kinda had it in my head that we got the Cayman after it was killed in the EU due to this cyber security managerment system thing, but I was wrong.

 

[Swissbob]

It looks like Switzerland adopt this as well. I kinda had it in my head that we got the Cayman after it was killed in the EU due to this cyber security managerment system thing, but I was wrong.

AFAIK You can always import the car as a used car from the US, but it must be at least 6 months old.
US versions doesn’t have gpf and therefore don’t meet the current emissions and noise levels, but because it’s a used car it doesn’t matter.

That’s something people can still do with the V12 S680 although I guess noise levels are not an issue with this car.

 

[Matski]

Resale value is quite terrible here for Rolls-Royces and Bentleys actually. It's not unusual to see a year-old Ghost with 5k miles selling for $60-80k less than its original price.

It's not much different than the low residuals of a run of the mill S-class or 7-series.

Ultimately, luxury is not second hand.

The people who can't afford a new V12 will not be able to afford and maintain a second hand V12.

The place that'll be taking care of some (more) work on my N45B20S are equally at home rebuilding a Rolls-Royce V12 as they the N45 and even the P45, and they're not too bad price wise, cheaper than most main dealers in the London area by my reckoning.

So this means you can't even privately own a non-compliant vehicle - even if you are willing to pay the taxes?

EU Euro regulations are for manufacturers, and affect whether they can sell a vehicle into the EU (or countries that adopt their regulations). Euro7 is effectively nothing to do with private ownership.