Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Sunny]

I agree with most of this, but moving to just EVs 10 years ago was not an option for them.

I agree. It is an impossible dilemma for an established company. But also why we see disruption in many industries.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I think China is treated too much as a boogie man entity. It's not a problem to try and win them over. Because honestly, winning them over is the best toughest challenge given how rapidly they iterate.

Moving away from "Luxury" is a curious choice for Mercedes.
I'm of the opinion that Mercedes should be expensive. But they should offer a lot for the money instead of nickel and diming buyers for every last option.

Making cars that feel special is certainly a way to do it. But as long as the interior and build quality is up to snuff.

 

[Swissbob]

The Problem in China is the nationalism which you can see now also on the car market.

I guess If you buy a Chinese car you’re getting also a better social score.

Therefore some people might be afraid to buy a western car.

I think Mercedes Benz shouldn’t concentrate on the Chinese market anymore.

If their western cars work in china, fine, but they shouldn’t build cars for china and then try to sell them worldwide.

 

[Design FIRST]

I think China is treated too much as a boogie man entity. It's not a problem to try and win them over. Because honestly, winning them over is the best toughest challenge given how rapidly they iterate.

YES ! Certainly a lofty task at hand. But one that will pay large dividends should it be successful. In terms of confidence in light of just how good Chinese vehicles are becoming. And in monetary terms, as high volume sales potential most certainly, if anywhere, exists in China. Of course, provided that economic conditions there do not sour too excessively or too rapidly.

Moving away from "Luxury" is a curious choice for Mercedes.

Paramount is QUALITY; a return to "Engineering to a standard", innovative, purposeful tech and good, enduring design. Lavish hedonism is not really a prime M-B characteristic. Perhaps best would be leaving that to very limited volume, built to order only, bespoke manufacturing sub-brands such as Maybach and/or "Mythos".

I'm of the opinion that Mercedes should be expensive.

The very best of value for the money. Even if it is a considerable amount of money.

Making cars that feel special is certainly a way to do it.

"Feeling special" in the manner that cars such as the W116, W126, R/C107, R129 and even the far more pedestrian W115 and W123 "felt special"..."felt distinctively, unmistakably MERCEDES-BENZ.".

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

YES ! Certainly a lofty task at hand. But one that will pay large dividends should it be successful. In terms of confidence in light of just how good Chinese vehicles are becoming. And in monetary terms, as high volume sales potential most certainly, if anywhere, exists in China. Of course, provided that economic conditions there do not sour too excessively or too rapidly.



Paramount is QUALITY; a return to "Engineering to a standard", innovative, purposeful tech and good, enduring design. Lavish hedonism is not really a prime M-B characteristic. Perhaps best would be leaving that to very limited volume, built to order only, bespoke manufacturing sub-brands such as Maybach and/or "Mythos".


The very best of value for the money. Even if it is a considerable amount of money.


"Feeling special" in the manner that cars such as the W116, W126, R/C107, R129 and even the far more pedestrian W115 and W123 "felt special"..."felt distinctively, unmistakably MERCEDES-BENZ.".

Yes I agree. Hedonistic vehicles and excess aren't really the Mercedes way. Being overbuilt and over engineered on the other hand is the Mercedes way. That's not to say Mercedes should go completely austere with interior design. It should be nicely designed, but not overdone, and most importantly, built to a high quality standard.

 

[Swissbob]

I think China is treated too much as a boogie man entity. It's not a problem to try and win them over. Because honestly, winning them over is the best toughest challenge given how rapidly they iterate.

Moving away from "Luxury" is a curious choice for Mercedes.
I'm of the opinion that Mercedes should be expensive. But they should offer a lot for the money instead of nickel and diming buyers for every last option.

Making cars that feel special is certainly a way to do it. But as long as the interior and build quality is up to snuff.

China is a thing of the past. This ship has sailed.

In all other points I agree with you.

Currently there’s only one car which really feels like a Mercedes Benz should, it’s the G.

 

[Design FIRST]

Currently there’s only one car which really feels like a Mercedes Benz should, it’s the G.

IMHO, that legendary, characteristic exclusivity that defined M-B vehicles for decades began to evaporate with the presentation of competitors such as the E34 and later the E39 BMW 5ers. These BMWs, even more than the also extremely formidable 7 series cars of the era due to higher sales volumes, ushered a redefinition of the "brand status hierarchy". They were cars that made the contemporary M-B E-Class models "a bit less extraordinary". Certainly, the R129 SL was an exceptional M-B. But as for the sedans and estates, no longer so much IMHO. Not with the E34, E39, E32 and E38 in the game. And then, Audi came into play with the first gen A8-although it has lost an immense amount of glitter over the course of the years following "Dieselgate".

 

[klier]

IMHO, that legendary, characteristic exclusivity that defined M-B vehicles for decades began to evaporate with the presentation of competitors such as the E34 and later the E39 BMW 5ers.

The W210 is where the roles reversed forever. BMW has quite frankly never looked back since.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

IMHO, that legendary, characteristic exclusivity that defined M-B vehicles for decades began to evaporate with the presentation of competitors such as the E34 and later the E39 BMW 5ers. These BMWs, even more than the also extremely formidable 7 series cars of the era due to higher sales volumes, ushered a redefinition of the "brand status hierarchy". They were cars that made the contemporary M-B E-Class models "a bit less extraordinary". Certainly, the R129 SL was an exceptional M-B. But as for the sedans and estates, no longer so much IMHO. Not with the E34, E39, E32 and E38 in the game. And then, Audi came into play with the first gen A8-although it has lost an immense amount of glitter over the course of the years following "Dieselgate".

Valid, but people still hold the W140 has the pinnacle of full sized luxury sedan.
Over engineered and built to last. It did also have the legendary M120 V12.

Zeitche was doing a fantastic job. Ola is a bean counter and it hasn't helped at all.

 

[Tuffode]

If they were smart they'd pull out and focus on Europe and America and make products geared towards them as they can still be super competitive there. But they are too greedy and are already far too used to getting money from the world's largest population, so we will continue to see EVEN MORE chintzy interiors (one of the goals stated is even more cost reduction) with screens all across the dashboard even for the passenger.

 

[Esp5]

China is a thing of the past. This ship has sailed.

If Mercedes thought like that, they would simply go bankrupt (or almost).
It's the largest market in the world. Doing badly there means starting to have serious problems, which is basically what's happening.

They're already deeply entrenched there; up until two years ago, they sold 700,000 cars or more there; losing that is no longer an option that keeps you afloat.

 

[Swissbob]

If Mercedes thought like that, they would simply go bankrupt.
It's the largest market in the world. Doing badly there means starting to have serious problems, which is basically what's happening.
They're already deeply entrenched there; up until two years ago, they sold 700,000 cars or more there; losing that is no longer an option that keeps you afloat.

Nope they wouldn’t.

All western car companies will become niche companies in China very soon.

I expect a market share decline of 95% in the next 5 years.

Because this is what the Chinese government wants.

All western car companies together will have a market share of less than 2%.

There was a life before China and there’ll be a life after China.

Different models and preferences.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Giving up is kind of pathetic honestly.
I know the market is dominated by subsidised domestic players. But giving up the whole market because things are difficult is a loser mentality.

That's not to say it's a good idea to keep on cutting costs. But if you want to stand out in a highly competitive market, you need to offer your very best. It's not a bad thing.

 

[Esp5]

All western car companies will become niche companies in China very soon.

I expect a market share decline of 95% in the next 5 years.

It won't go that far. They have to base themselves on good products to recover.
The German portfolio is in its mid-cycle with old technology. The new proposals that are arriving should stabilize things a bit.

Because this is what the Chinese government wants.

All foreign companies are half Chinese in China, the government wants them there investing, not losing.

All western car companies together will have a market share of less than 2%.

In reality, it is much closer to 10% or even more. Out of 31 million cars a year, more than 3 million are Western companies, although it is not equally important for all of them, it is for the Germans., the ones that sell the most are the German ones.

There was a life before China and there’ll be a life after China.

Yes, a very complicated life.
When your operating costs are tied to the market where you sell more than any other, if you lose it, your profitability will go down the drain.

 

[MPertz]

Nope they wouldn’t.

All western car companies will become niche companies in China very soon.

I expect a market share decline of 95% in the next 5 years.

Because this is what the Chinese government wants.

All western car companies together will have a market share of less than 2%.

There was a life before China and there’ll be a life after China.

Different models and preferences.

This will be the case, and I'll say why. I'm a European working in China and I see how the cea market is transforming here.

Given the plethora of options here, I would not buy a European car. Not a Mercedes, not a BMW. There are enough options on the market, with nice exterior design, much better interior design than any premium European car, and decent quality at half the price of European premium cars.

Xiaomi, NIO, BYD, etc, are slowly but surely taking the market share of the premium German brands.
There are no more reasons for the Chinese nationals to flock to the German brands.

Of course, when I'll be back in Europe, I'll continue to drive my F10

 

[MPertz]

All foreign companies are half Chinese in China, the government wants them there investing, not losing.

Not anymore. The Chinese Government has lifted the foreign ownership limit from 51%. Foreign companies can have 100% ownership now.

 

[Swissbob]

@MPertz
What do you think of this :

Of Course, The New AUDI E5 EV Is Ridiculously Cheap In China | Carscoops

The new E5 Sportback combines luxury features, huge power, and advanced tech with surprisingly low pricing

www.carscoops.com

 

[MPertz]

@MPertz
What do you think of this :

Of Course, The New AUDI E5 EV Is Ridiculously Cheap In China | Carscoops

The new E5 Sportback combines luxury features, huge power, and advanced tech with surprisingly low pricing

www.carscoops.com

I can see three things Audi did here:
1. They created the AUDI brand for China. And I think this is what Mercedes is hinting to when they speak about the Chinese market and that "Mercedes must become more Chinese" .
2. They adopted Chinese design inside/outside.
3. In order to be so cheap/affordable, they must be using a big portion of local supplied parts. The most expensive part being the battery, which is locally purchased from CATL. By doing this, they are able to compete with the Chinese brands.

The deliveries will start in about a month, maybe a month and a half, so I'm curious also to see it on the streets.

If Mercedes is not doing a similar move, their market share will only plummet.

 

[Esp5]

Not anymore. The Chinese Government has lifted the foreign ownership limit from 51%. Foreign companies can have 100% ownership now.

Is there any automaker other than BMW that has increased its share?

Given the plethora of options here, I would not buy a European car. Not a Mercedes, not a BMW. There are enough options on the market, with nice exterior design, much better interior design than any premium European car, and decent quality at half the price of European premium cars.

Xiaomi, NIO, BYD, etc, are slowly but surely taking the market share of the premium German brands.
There are no more reasons for the Chinese nationals to flock to the German brands.

The Chinese offer better products at ridiculous prices; it's not sustainable; most lose money on every vehicle they sell.

I think the market will settle and stabilize. To say the Germans lost to the Chinese is to underestimate them. I don't deny that things are falling faster than expected and that Mercedes is in a worse position than anyone else with its EV reputation, but I think the picture will become clearer in a couple of years, if they don't continue to fall.

 

[Nikita6996]