Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Rolf]

People might criticize the F10 and F30 for looking like an old BMW and not want to buy them. I think you're making up your own mind. The W212 was also a radical change compared to the W211, but how successful was it?

If we compare the BMW 5 series vs E class design change, this is my analogy:

5-series:

1972 E12 to 1981 E28 - Evolution
1981 E28 to 1988 E34 - Big Change
1988 E34 to 1995 E39 - Big Change
1995 E39 to 2003 E60 - Big Change
2003 E60 to 2010 F10 - Big Change
2010 F10 to 2017 G30 - Evolution
2017 G30 to 2023 G60 - Big Change

E-class:

1968 W114/115 to 1976 W123 - Big Change
1976 W123 to 1984 W124 - Big Change
1984 W124 to 1995 W210 - Big Change
1995 W210 to 2002 W211 - Evolution
2002 W211 to 2009 W212 - Big Change
2009 W212 to 2016 W213 - Big Change
2016 W213 to 2023 W214 - Evolution

Personally I think the generation F10 and W212 models were both not exciting and bland, although both vehicles were excellent to drive and be a passenger in. There is a big difference in the way W212 drives compared to W213, it is much softer and has less responsive steering and gearbox.

 

[Esp5]

This was my argument: Just because a design is different or bold doesn't mean it's good. I thought the 212 was much better than the 213. The 222 design was better than the 223, but sales were the opposite.

Well, I can confirm that the 213 sold hundreds of thousands more than the 212 in their respective cycles, and the 222 maintained very high sales much more consistently year after year than the 223 (which had excellent first two years but its sales dropped almost 40-50% since last year). It's very likely that by the end of the 223's cycle, it will sell less overall than the 222.

 

[Design FIRST]

The W212 was also a radical change compared to the W211, but how successful was it?

In terms of unit sales, the W/S 212 E-Class was immensely successful here in Europe. It had a significant presence in the upper-executive company car market and was perhaps the last E-Class series that maintained a dominance in the taxicab fleet segment of the market. And while the W212's exterior design was often lambasted in direct comparison with that of the C7 Audi A6 and BMW F10/11 5er (both of which stellar IMHO), especially pertaining to the pre-MoPF models, it had many fans. In addition, fit, finish and robust mechanicals were major attributes.

I would however also argue that the significance of exterior design has grown considerably over the course of the past 15+ some years. Grown in a similar extent to which tastes appear to have changed. So much has to do with Zeitgeist.

 

[leylandi]

Well, I can confirm that the 213 sold hundreds of thousands more than the 212 in their respective cycles, and the 222 maintained very high sales much more consistently year after year than the 223 (which had excellent first two years but its sales dropped almost 40-50% since last year). It's very likely that by the end of the 223's cycle, it will sell less overall than the 222.

G11
2016 : 61,514
2017 : 64,311
2018 : 56,037
2019 : 50,552
2020 : 46,025
2021 : 62,628 (incl. 8 Series)
2022 : 48,708 (incl. 8 Series)

G70
2023 59,763 (incl. 8 Series)
2024 56,542 (incl. 8 Series)

w222
2014 103,737
2015 106,200 (incl. Coupe)
2016 84,000 (incl. Coupe)
2017 70,000
2018 77,927
2019 71,700
2020 56,000

w223
2021 91,000
2022 117,500 EQS 23,400
2023 93,300 EQS 14,100

 

[Esp5]

In terms of unit sales, the W/S 212 E-Class was immensely successful here in Europe.

Correct but was not at all successful overall compared to what they expected of it; the F10 far outsold it, which was the reason for that famous LCI they gave it, which was the most expensive in Mercedes' history up to that point.

 

[leylandi]

Unofficial 2024 data shows the W214 outselling the more popular G60, while the BMW i5 has surpassed the EQE.

 

[Esp5]

Not again with those fabricated and unverified figures. If there are no official figures, it's best not to post anything. Again, that site is not reliable.

 

[Esp5]

I don't know why the laughter; even Mercedes doesn't publish detailed figures except in a "medium segment" format, including SUVs, etc., which is lower than last year. These must be production figures, not sales figures, so they're completely invalid.

 

[Design FIRST]

Correct but was not at all successful overall compared to what they expected of it; the F10 far outsold it, which was the reason for that famous LCI they gave it, which was the most expensive in Mercedes' history up to that point.

...and I imagine that this is a testimony to the power of the "design affine" customer. Both the BMW F10/11 and C7 Audi A6 (+ A7) were and remain drop-dead gorgeous automobiles. I clearly recall the very frequent "ooh-ing and aaah-ing" about the beauty of those cars designs. Not so much with regard to the W212 and especially not the pre-MoPF models. The M-B's trumpcard was an unwaivering widespread perception of it's solidity. And this was THE asset that made the more pedestrian M-B models of the 1960/70's/80's so desirable to many. The W110, W114-Strich Acht and W123 were arguably not the "prettiest" cars in their day.

 

[leylandi]

Detailed data was published until 2023. Mercedes began publishing combined data in 2024. Do your research : Annual Report

 

[Uygar]

This was my argument: Just because a design is different or bold doesn't mean it's good. I thought the 212 was much better than the 213. The 222 design was better than the 223, but sales were the opposite.

There’s no way the W212 was better than the 213, especially design-wise. It was the best looking E-Class ever made, until they decided to ruin it with the 2020 facelift. Same can be said for W222 as well, it was a radical change for the model and looked flawless. These new generation models don’t have the revolutionary aspect of the previous ones. Of course, totally my opinion.

 

[leylandi]

There’s no way the W212 was better than the 213, especially design-wise. It was the best looking E-Class ever made, until they decided to ruin it with the 2020 facelift. Same can be said for W222 as well, it was a radical change for the model and looked flawless. These new generation models don’t have the revolutionary aspect of the previous ones. Of course, totally my opinion.

213 FL ?

 

[Design FIRST]

213 FL ?

Cosmetically, the taillamps, for example.

 

[Uygar]

213 FL ?

Yep, 213 facelift looked really bad for me, cause the car was already flawless. They tried to make it more in line with the W223 S-Class by adding those horizontal taillights and “angry” looking headlights but it just looked out of place, cause it wasn’t designed like that initially.

Those old taillights were one of the best looking designs in the industry. You knew it was a Mercedes from miles away. Plus, when I think of a Mercedes sedan, I think of elegance. No need for a mean looking design.

 

[leylandi]

Despite outselling the G30, the W213 has undergone a radical facelift. What are your thoughts on this? I think it's a terrible change.

 

[leylandi]

Those old taillights were one of the best looking designs in the industry. You knew it was a Mercedes from miles away. Plus, when I think of a Mercedes sedan, I think of elegance. No need for a mean looking design.

After the G30, the G60 doesn't look like a BMW in my opinion.

 

[Uygar]

Despite outselling the G30, the W213 has undergone a radical facelift. What are your thoughts on this? I think it's a terrible change.

I think the deep facelift was their attempt to make the design more consistent throughout the range. Like I said, It didn’t need much as it was pretty much great already.

 

[leylandi]

I don't know why the laughter; even Mercedes doesn't publish detailed figures except in a "medium segment" format, including SUVs, etc., which is lower than last year. These must be production figures, not sales figures, so they're completely invalid.

Unit Sales 2023

Top-End
Unit sales in the Top-End category accounted for 16% of total unit sales in 2023. In 2023, Mercedes-Maybach was able to increase unit sales by 19% to 27,900 units. At 143,200 units, Mercedes-AMG achieved a 4% increase in unit sales. At 42,700 units, sales of the G-Class were 11% above the prior-year figure. GLS sales increased by 30% to 77,900 units. The S-Class maintained its leadership in the major sales markets with 93,300 vehicles sold.

Core
The Core category accounted for 54% of the overallportfolio’s unit sales. Unit sales of C-Class vehicles rose by 10% to 334,400 saloons, estates, coupés and cabriolets. E-Class sales reached 309,100 units — anincrease of 2% — despite the model change. Meanwhile, due to supply bottlenecks sales of the GLC amounted to 297,400 units and of the GLE to 219,100 units.

Entry
The Entry category represented 30% of the entire portfolio. Sales of the A-Class totalled 245,100 units. Salesof the B-Class amounted to 21,600 vehicles. The GLB reached 191,900 units sold, and the GLA 175,500 units. A total of 18,100 smart vehicles were sold in the European market.

Electrified vehicles
Sales of all-electric vehicles (BEVs) of the MercedesBenz brand rose by 61% to 240,600 units in 2023 (2022:149,200). All-electric vehicles thus accounted for a 12% share of total unit sales (2022: 7%). The most importantsales drivers were the EQA, with sales of 52,500 unitsand the EQB with 54,800 units. The EQE Saloon achieved sales of 37,700 units and the newly introduced EQE SUV 32,100 units. Sales of the EQS Saloon amounted to 14,100 units, and of the EQS SUV 18,500units.

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/documents/investors/reports/annual-report/mercedes-benz/mercedes-benz-annual-report-2023-incl-combined-management-report-mbg-ag.pdf

 

[Esp5]

After the G30, the G60 doesn't look like a BMW in my opinion.

I think this is the photo you were looking for

 

[Esp5]

2023

Top-End
Unit sales in the Top-End category accounted for 16% of total unit sales in 2023. In 2023, Mercedes-Maybach was able to increase unit sales by 19% to 27,900 units. At 143,200 units, Mercedes-AMG achieved a 4% increase in unit sales. At 42,700 units, sales of the G-Class were 11% above the prior-year figure. GLS sales increased by 30% to 77,900 units. The S-Class maintained its leadership in the major sales markets with 93,300 vehicles sold.

Core
The Core category accounted for 54% of the overallportfolio’s unit sales. Unit sales of C-Class vehicles rose by 10% to 334,400 saloons, estates, coupés and cabriolets. E-Class sales reached 309,100 units — anincrease of 2% — despite the model change. Meanwhile, due to supply bottlenecks sales of the GLC amounted to 297,400 units and of the GLE3 to 219,100 units.

Entry
The Entry category represented 30% of the entire portfolio. Sales of the A-Class totalled 245,100 units. Salesof the B-Class amounted to 21,600 vehicles. The GLB reached 191,900 units sold, and the GLA 175,500 units. A total of 18,100 smart vehicles were sold in the European market.

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/documents/investors/reports/annual-report/mercedes-benz/mercedes-benz-annual-report-2023-incl-combined-management-report-mbg-ag.pdf

You mention 2023 as being positive with all the new models, but I'm talking about 2024 and what's happened so far in 2025.