Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Mr. Mercedes]

This is just the S Class and the Maybach S Class facelifts

I understand. But the grill seems very prominent and the vehicle on the left does not look like a regular W223.

I'm speculatively excited about what they may do with the W223 FL.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

It's similar, but not quite the same.
Currently BMW uses CLAR for both BEV and ICE. The architecture has been modified to allow for both electric and combustion power trains. This is why the i5 and i7 have a transmission tunnel, even though they don't need one in EV form. Because that vehicle needs that to package the combustion engines.
This is sound in principle because it means you have unified (if subjectively ugly) designs for both ICE and BEV.

Mercedes MMA takes the same approach for their commodity vehicles, for cost reasons I imagine. The CLA to be unveiled next month can accommodate both BEV and ICE power trains in the same platform and body.

The difference is at the mid to high end. Currently mercedes has EVA2 for the EQ series and MRA2 for the ICE series. The EQ cars are horribly ugly homonculi due to their aero obsession. Meanwhile the ICE cars look pretty lovely in my opinion.
Going forward from the introduction of MB.EA-L they will keep the same strategy of a dedicated BEV platform for EVs and dedicated ICE platform for ICE cars. That way both can be uncompromised in their packaging. However the big change in strategy for them is to no longer have soap bars on wheels for EVs, but instead use the same external design and shape for both BEVs and ICE/PHEV so they look the same from the outside. Underneath, they will probably use a unique platform depending on the power train choice by the customer.
So if they want and E.class EV it'll be on MB.EA-L. But if they want an E.class hybrid or combustion model, it'll be on MRA2. But either way it'll look the same.
So in essence. You pick the model you want , and then you pick the power train, and you don't have to worry about anything else.

I think BMW will probably be converging with Mercedes in the same way when NK is being introduced. At least for the new 3-series to begin with. BEV will be NK, but the ICE 3er will probably remain in CLAR, but they'll have similar outward appearances.

Perfect summary.

I suspect if their moves in the upper end are successful they will bin lower end models like the A.

They have reiterated their projections of reducing production by about 200k vehicles in the next few years.

This is Ola's chnace to really stamp his legacy on MB. If they successfully grow at the top end, he could be forgiven for the EQ shamble and redeemed. However if they continue to fumble with sub par quality and EV designs, stick a fork in him.

 

[Merc1]

I guess what really gets me about Mercedes is that they lose focus, then it takes a crisis or series of failures for them to regain focus. The board? CEO? Shareholders? Who is at fault for this? Do they not realize what Mercedes-Benz is? What it stands for? Shit like the EQS should have been killed at the first design sketch. This 4-cylinder C63, like who said that is a brilliant new direction?

M

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I guess what really gets me about Mercedes is that they lose focus, then it takes a crisis or series of failures for them to regain focus. The board? CEO? Shareholders? Who is at fault for this? Do they not realize what Mercedes-Benz is? What it stands for? Shit like the EQS should have been killed at the first design sketch. This 4-cylinder C63, like who said that is a brilliant new direction?

M

Shareholders and focus groups.

 

[Sunny]

Shareholders and focus groups.

Ha, that is some fantastical deflection! But no, of course not. The fault lies squarely with leadership - the C suite and the board specifically. They made the choices, not the shareholders or some focus groups.

 

[klier]

They say they want to keep the 3 box design for style, so maybe won't be changed in proportion completely, but yeah.

If the proportions aren't completely different it's a fail and actually it'd become a pointless exercise to even create two platforms.
Both will be 3-box, both with the same design theme, but simply not the same proportions. ICE and BEV require different approaches.

Shorter overhang with longer wheelbase and shorter hood will make a ton of difference visually.

 

[klier]

Perfect summary.

I suspect if their moves in the upper end are successful they will bin lower end models like the A.

They have reiterated their projections of reducing production by about 200k vehicles in the next few years.

This is Ola's chnace to really stamp his legacy on MB. If they successfully grow at the top end, he could be forgiven for the EQ shamble and redeemed. However if they continue to fumble with sub par quality and EV designs, stick a fork in him.

What are you even saying? Growing at the top end while selling 200k less cars? Who on this f'ing planet thinks that is a good idea???

Jesus.....

 

[Ozy]

It might be a bit overlooked, but it appears the current V class front gives a lot of inspiration to the next Facelifts, S, GLE, GLS, and its a spectacular front, very modern and elegant at the same time, and its a minivan… the facelifts will be beautiful

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

What are you even saying? Growing at the top end while selling 200k less cars? Who on this f'ing planet thinks that is a good idea???

Jesus.....

I mean, I'm sure you'd be glad for BMW to stop selling 1ers and 2erGCs right? Even if it meant sacrificing 200k sales.

 

[Ozy]

 

[leylandi]

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

What are you even saying? Growing at the top end while selling 200k less cars? Who on this f'ing planet thinks that is a good idea???

Jesus.....

It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[Mars1965]

BMW's strategy is proven to be the best. I would say to MB, "follow the leader".

 

[GTA45E]

It's going to be interesting to see what AMG does with this flat-plane V8 rumor. That setup requires the engine pushed to higher RPMs to get the torque and horsepower the car needs. With the proper tuning, the sound quality on some flat-plane V8s is quite awesome. The GT Black Series with its Turbos sounds about as exciting as a juice blender IMO. If this flat plane business is true AMG will probably use electric turbos like the M139 4-banger in the current C63. It is what will be needed to get much more horsepower and torque.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

It's going to be interesting to see what AMG does with this flat-plane V8 rumor. That setup requires the engine pushed to higher RPMs to get the torque and horsepower the car needs. With the proper tuning, the sound quality on some flat-plane V8s is quite awesome. The GT Black Series with its Turbos sounds about as exciting as a juice blender IMO. If this flat plane business is true AMG will probably use electric turbos like the M139 4-banger in the current C63. It is what will be needed to get much more horsepower and torque.

The M178 LS2 has no problems at all with torque and power. It comfortably spits out 850Nm from 2000-6000rpm and 734hp in the GT Track Series; and over 800hp in the Aston Martin Valhalla.

If I'm not wrong the M176/7/8 was based on the M133. This new one might be based on the M139, so yeah they'll probably use the e-turbos to juice it up. I can't imagine what kind of ungodly power such a thing would be capable of.

Or alternatively, it could be a downsized 3L V8 based on the M252, but the timelines don't really make sense for that to come out so early.

Emissions regs will probably rob us of some fun, but alas.

 

[Merc1]

There is a V8 E AMG on that timeline!

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

There is a V8 E AMG on that timeline!

M

Looks like AMG will be developing their own bespoke EV SUV like they are doing with the EV 4 door coupe. While, they'll probably all receive tepid market reactions given the attitude towards expensive EV's, they will be good showcases for where MB EV (battery and motor) tech is headed, which is pretty exciting.

 

[Design FIRST]

2027 as presentation year for the E-Class EV sedan ? Sooner than I would have thought. Great news. I certainly will not miss the current EQE or EQS models, especially the sedans. M-B has always had a history of the occasional "miss". And the current EQ sedans are most certainly an epic "miss". Good riddance to them.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I guess what really gets me about Mercedes is that they lose focus, then it takes a crisis or series of failures for them to regain focus. The board? CEO? Shareholders? Who is at fault for this? Do they not realize what Mercedes-Benz is? What it stands for? Shit like the EQS should have been killed at the first design sketch. This 4-cylinder C63, like who said that is a brilliant new direction?

M

I agree. We witnessed the almost decade long deterioration of the brand under Shrimp to finally feel reprieve under Zetsche.

But, I'm not going to write Ola off just yet. I think a lot of the current problems are not MB specific nor self inflicted. The EQ's are products that they were forced to deliver, and we know things like styling were heavily impacted by aerodynamic benchmarks for range requirements. They pushed this too far and they delivered us products that didn't look or feel like Mercedes.

But most of these products would have been conceived, and in many cases substantially progressed, under Zetsche. We will only now start to see the result of Ola's free reign and I hope his 'vision' of a more premium, lower volume brand is true and not just more smoke and mirrors.

 

[Merc1]

I agree. We witnessed the almost decade long deterioration of the brand under Shrimp to finally feel reprieve under Zetsche.

But, I'm not going to write Ola off just yet. I think a lot of the current problems are not MB specific nor self inflicted. The EQ's are products that they were forced to deliver, and we know things like styling were heavily impacted by aerodynamic benchmarks for range requirements. They pushed this too far and they delivered us products that didn't look or feel like Mercedes.

But most of these products would have been conceived, and in many cases substantially progressed, under Zetsche. We will only now start to see the result of Ola's free reign and I hope his 'vision' of a more premium, lower volume brand is true and not just more smoke and mirrors.

The only thing I disagree with is that Mercedes was forced to make the EQ products look like that. They could have done better than that regardless of what the aerodynamic goals were. They've done it in the past.

M