Vs Maybach vs. Bentley vs. Rolls-Royce

[Merc1]

^^^ Exactly.

I wonder if they're still going to do the facelift? Knowing Mercedes they are, they rarely give up on a product. Witness the R-Class.


M

 

[HighestOfHigh]

I wonder if they're still going to do the facelift?

This was dated back in February -

Since its 2002 introduction, the Maybach 62, and it’s smaller sibling, the 57, have been relatively unchanged. For the 2010 model year, the cars will receive a minor refresh, which should carry the car until at least 2013. Spy photographers on Friday snapped some up-close shots of a 2010 62 prototype, with a number of changes visible.

The modifications are similar to those Mercedes is giving to Maybach’s smaller cousin, the S-Class. Namely: LED-type daylight driving lamps, redesigned bumpers, and a new grille. It’s clear from these photos the new grille will be the most noticeable change — it is now split down the center and more pronounced.

An official debut should take place some time this year. By all accounts, the smaller Maybach 57 will receive identical updates.

- http://www.leftlanenews/maybach-62-2010.html




It would be nice to see them do something extraordinary like they did with the S-class Facelift. They really need something ASAP considering the new Mulsanne. I'm sure Bentley will have no problems selling that car. Maybach we will see a facelift at Frankfurt (hopefully). I would love to see them re-design those headlights.

 

[NarutoRamen]

^^Screw a facelift, Maybach needs a complete redesign.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Nice write-up, HOH.
If you don't mind, I'd like to address your points within your quotes, I'll underline my responses for the sake making reading easier...

See it really comes down to a person’s perception. Rolls-Royce and Bentley have always been known for "Ultra-Luxury" cars. You really can't say Rolls-Royce without saying Bentley and vice versa.

BMW and VAG already had a foundation to work with the Phantom and the Mulsanne. Both already had extraordinary brands to work with. Mercedes-Benz had to bring back a dead brand. What really happened is that Mercedes-Benz probably should have though ahead, but I believe they were thinking one direction with the Maybach "exclusivity" and another with the S-class (the foundation of Mercedes-Benz). It would have been nice if Mercedes-Benz had though to put more on the lines of the W220 and W221, but the W140 was the one available at the time. That's debatable, the W220 was released around 1998, the Maybach were produced in the early 2000's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maybach#1997.E2.80.93present:_revival. They had quite a bit of time to work on the more modern W220 platform.

Mercedes-Benz could have just started on a new platform, but it could be that they didn't want to invest that much at the time. The thing is that when you are spending 400 large on a car, you don't want to think that this car looks like a tarted up 100K car. When working in this price bracket, making an investment like that is necessary, especially if you have an uphill battle trying to establish yourself amongst more reknowned brands.Regardless of platform, Maybach is an exceptional car. The amount of luxury feature is of the highest quality. That it does, there's no denying the amazing level of creature comforts this car has to offer. Yes, the W221 is far more advanced when it comes to technology...then again the Ultra Luxury segment isn't about all that. It wasn't but it has become that and the Maybachs now, in my eyes, did not weather it that well. In this category these cars stay on the market a long time. Sure they may receive a facelift or two, but the cost of giving it a technology makeover wouldn't make sense. Investing in more advanced technology should not be the issue since the R&D cost in the Maybach is rather minimal when compared to a bespoke Phantom or Mulasanne, especially good deal of the cost has been covered when the W140 was on sale for about 8 years. The Phantom is not really a warmed over BMW platform, it is fully bespoke, aluminum-based platform that was developed exclusively for RR.

The Major problem with the Maybach Brand is necessarily the car itself. Potential customers need to be able to relate with the brand and a lot of them do it by it's history, which Maybach has very little of. Well, yes, the Maybach brand's history is somewhat familiar to you, me, and other car nerds (and I say car nerds as a term of endearment!), but I agree, that M-B ought to have marketed under it's own name and called a Pullman. On the other hand, the car itself does favor the lower S-class, which hurts it. There is too much S-class in it not for it to be noticed. Not that the S-class is a bad thing, but a $400k car shouldn't look like an extended $100k car. Exactly!

Other then basic looks, the Maybach is still one of the more luxurious cars on ear. Besides dealing with Rolls-Royce and Bentley's History, Maybach is well capable to handle both brands. The Maybach has just as many luxury features as Rolls-Royce if not more, The Maybach 62 is probably longest (most room) out of all luxury cars. The Power especially with the 57S is more then Phantom (the Bentley we still have to wait for official numbers of course). I don't know how much power comes into play, this is as, afterall, a super-duper luxury car that's more often than not a chauffered-driven car. As long as power's "adequate," then the owners won't care if it has a 450hp, 500hp, or 550 hp. If we are talking about performance cars, such has Ferraris, Porsches, Lambos, etc., then the owners would be all too happy in partaking in the horsepower p***ing contest.

Maybach may not have had big sales numbers for it's first shot, but it made BMW think harder when making the Phantom. Maybach is a first class car through and through. And despite you hate for Donald Trump, this car should never be judged on it's owners./ Believe it or not, there are idiots with all three of these cars in their possession (probably soon for Bentley Mulsanne). When all is said a done a Maybach will still be a choice in the Ultra Luxury segment.
I agree, there are plenty of dolts out there with more money than they know what to do with it. Usually I don't try to associate actions of others affecting my tastes. It's he's such an off-putting persona to me...It's just that he wh***s himself to no end to get tha extra buck. Everything is gold-plated, gaudy, and fake. Some call him shrewd and worship him as some sort of deity, I call it prostitution. Absolutely tasteless. There was a point around 2003-2005 when that crass hack was everywhere trying to pitch snak-oil. He's just one of the piblic figures I least respect! OK, I'm done with my Trump rant.

BTW, I think the Laundalet is pretty cool idea.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

HOH, If I could elaborate some of your other points...unfortunately, I'm not that tech-savvy and can't figure out how to do multiple-post quotes...

Well the Maybach doesn’t look exactly like the S-class, but you can easily tell that they are related. The Sloping hood, the grill, the rear and even the interior somewhat “slightly” favored the W220. This is a major problem for a car asking this much. Now when it came out, it was outstanding. The thing is that the Phantom, it's closest competitor came out around the same time...circa New Year's 2003. The Arnage was out since, I think, 1997-1998. Over time and with Bentley and Rolls-Royce producing models, it just looks old now.

As much as I hate the fact that BMW brought Rolls-Royce, they made sure that the Phantom looks nothing like the 7 series. Exaclty! At this price point, one's not looking to travel incognito in a 7er or S-class. They want to make a statement. They want to make an impact on the bystanders' 5 senses (well, not taste, unless you count leaving a bitter taste amongst the envious) Of course that is an easy job considering they could look at previous models and work from there. Well, I think that if they really wanted to, then the designers could have harked back to the pre-war Maybachs and modernized it. In my opinion, Maybach's failing is that MB released a concept at an Autoshow, (Tokyo, if my memory serves me) and they were going to release it as an MB. Then, at the last minute, somebody in MB's marketing had the idea putting under a different name to make it more exclusive. And just like Lazarus himself, the name Maybach was resurrected. When the Phantom came out, the Grill was strong and you instantly knew it was a Rolls-Royce. On the other hand Maybach did have a foundation to work with. In this case the grill comes out looking ineffective. There is nothing that is amazing about the Maybach’s grill. If anything that is the Maybach’s weakest point, just like you pointed out it almost could favor a Lincoln. Now what I would have liked to see Maybach do, was incorporate the Exelero grill on to the facelift. Something that would make the Maybach looks more distinctive. I agree 100%. While the Exelero looks a bit Batmobileque, it was rather distinctive. There was passing resemblance to the more "plebeian" MB line up, but it had its own character. Of course, that might be expensive since they would really have to redesign the hood. But how much more expensive? Alot of the Maybach's development was paid off when they produced the W140 and W220 S-Class. Redesigning a hood would of been easier, especially, at that time, they did not have to worry about complying to the new pedestrian laws. I still believe it would have been better then the current grill.



The name Maybach although strong in the pass does slightly work against them. On the other hand, I understand their reasoning with that. The design was strong at the time except for the grill. I remember when it came out and they had it on the news driving through New York everyone was amazed by it. Then the Phantom comes along with a grill the size of Buckingham Place make the Maybach grill look almost non existent. They might have not done the amount of Marketing needed for this car, but then again it was their first time…so I’ll give them that.

What Maybach needed was something really strong for this car. I don't think that's very necessary, a twin-turbo V12 more than sufficed. Yes, a V16 would have helped, but the engineering costs involved in cooling a 16-cylinder engine would have elevated costs surpassing probably $600K. Now combined that with a warmed over S-class shape, and, to me, that's a no-go. If it offered a bespoke body, and bespoke interior, with the current creature comforts, along with that lovely V12, then you got yourself a top-shelf car. The Bugatti really wasn’t an up to date company, but with W-16 engine producing 1001hp it stands out no matter what it looks like (Honestly if you took away the 16 cylinders and replaced it with a V8 pump 500hp, would anyone even care about the Bugatti). Yes they would care, but not anywhere near as much. What VW did with Bugatti was buy the name, then it applied it's own technology and engineering to it. But that technology and engineering was not applied to anything in the VW empire except the idea applying a W-block. VW developed a new platform, a new engine, and pretty much new everything to the Veyron. Even the tactile components, such as the carbon fiber and aluminum exterior panels and the interior components that are exclusively aluminum and leather. If you look in the Bugatti's interior, you will not find that could be traced back to anything in the VAG cars. Well, except the key, but that's it! Now let's say that Bugatti did all that EXCEPT in lieu of a W16, it put in a W12 or even a twin-turboed Audi-sourced V8. That car would still be special because of the componentry, and the fact it looks nothing like anything VAG has, or for that matter, any other car company! Also, the Bugatti name carries alot of weight versus Maybach. The last Bugatti produced, before it went defunct and was rescued by VAG, was the EB112, an absolute monster that was pretty unreliable. And more importantly, classic Bugattis fetch a pretty penny to this day. There was poin that a Bugatti Royale held the record for the highest price paid for an auctioned car. VAG was shrewd to buy and build cars under that name. Maybach needs something to make it stand out, of course the proposed V24 that was discussed back in the day might have made a difference then again MPG is so important these days. Honestly, once you start adding more cylinders after 12, you start to get diminished returns. But it would of been ridiculously ballsy move!

On the other hand, I can understand your point. A more distinctive look and better price might have been a winning combination for the Maybach. They really didn’t even try to work there way up. It’s almost as if wanted to be the most expensive luxury car on earth. I think a $300k price tag for the 57 and $350 for the 62 would have been a good start instead of the $400-462k. Then again Mercedes-Benz should use this as a learning experience.

I would hope MB will produce another Maybach in the near future, But the Maybach 62/57/57s are still great vehicles (Just without the sales). I hope so too, especially if they plan on being a distinct brand from MB. Daimler is an immensely capable company with a reknowned reputation for design and engineering. I just hope that they put more thought into designing and styling the next one. They need to realize that it needs to not only be great, but be downright special.

HOH, I hope you don't think I'm singling you out.

 

[Mr Robert]

Maybach is the ultra underdog in this segment. The company must try to compete with other values than tradition, even if it is a very old brand. Would it not be better to go brave and bold? Clean slate.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Maybach is the ultra underdog in this segment. The company must try to compete with other values than tradition, even if it is a very old brand. Would it not be better to go brave and bold? Clean slate.

Expected to arrive in 2012, the Lagonda sedan is expected to feature a hybrid powertrain and W222 platform underpinnings, much like the next Maybach super-sedan. Borrowing the S-Class for the basis of the Lagonda makes a lot of sense, both from an economic perspective, and considering the goals for the Lagonda project.

- Lagonda Working On Mercedes S-Class-Based Sedan? - MotorAuthority

Seems like the Next Maybach might be built along side the W222. Should be interesting.

 

[DeDe]

None of these
1. RR Ghost
2. Maybach 57S
3. Mercedes S600 L

 

[m-power]

I have a proposal for the next generation Maybach :

-f700-concept/mercedes-benz-f700-concept-14.jpg[/IMG]

 

[NarutoRamen]

^^While that would be phenomenal, the world isn't ready for something that different, but I am. LOL

 

[m-power]

In the high-end luxury segment, giving buyers something so unique will do Mercedes just good.
I believe Mercedes will have more customers if it chooses this approach since this way it offers something fresh and different from the RR and Bentley - an ultramodern interpretation of an ubber luxury limo. People with money appreciate that.

 

[NarutoRamen]

In the high-end luxury segment, giving buyers something so unique will do Mercedes just good.
I believe Mercedes will have more customers if it chooses this approach since this way it offers something fresh and different from the RR and Bentley - an ultramodern interpretation of an ubber luxury limo. People with money appreciate that.

I'm with you on this, but I just don't think MB will do this. But then again, I could be wrong as seeing that they got the balls to release some batshit crazy things like SLR, SL65Black and now the SLS.

 

[klier]

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a car with so much space inside

Those stars everywhere is a bit '***?' though

 

[bmer]

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a car with so much space inside

Those stars everywhere is a bit '***?' though

I don't think they are stars. They are more likely an artistic interpretation of the leaves of the Japanese maple, a popular pattern in Japanese art/decoration. I recall the F700 was originally planned to be presented at the Tokyo Motor Show (2007) following introductions of F400, F500 & F600 all of which debuted there.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Phantom WHO? Maybach What?

 

[Tarek]

^MM 62 landulet for me.

I'm sorry but this B doesn't look grand enough next the other two.IMO.

 

[Merc1]

Was at a Benz dealer over the weekend car shoping for a relative and I asked the salesman how many Maybachs do they sell a year....he said 2! Yikes. They had a 2009 on the floor for 450K and a 2004 for 202K. The base Maybach should be discontinued, Period. Only the S and Zepp versions should be allowed to live.


M

 

[HighestOfHigh]

^ That is so sad. Maybach is like the little dog that got shot, but still survived.

Maybe it's that big price. Then again the rumors of a new one in 2012 built on the extended platform of the W222 keeps my faith going in Maybach.


Of course right now, Bentley does it for me.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

I think when it comes to interiors, Bentley is my choice. Still the like Maybach rear interior slightly better though.

 

[HighestOfHigh]