Maybach 57/62 (W240/V240) Maybach 62 S Landaulet Concept

[coolraoul]

When I say it is technicallymost advanced, I mean that every detail in this car is unique. It even is the only car with two brake callipers at each front discs...And everything is over-engineered like that. You don't find this on the Rolls.

Anyway you're right: it is a failure. I don't really like the Maybach, because it sure is bland and boring looking. Even the inside is not really well designed, it often looks like a mess with a lot of thinks everywhere without order or design effort.

They already are testing the future Maybach.
So it seems they will keep the brand alive, which leads me to think that the OCD will may become a Maybach.

And that, maybe, the F700 gives more clues about the future Maybach than about the future S-Class, as it has not the edgy, rigid look of actual Mercedes, but is more fluid like the OCD...

 

[SDNR]

When I say it is technicallymost advanced, I mean that every detail in this car is unique. It even is the only car with two brake callipers at each front discs...And everything is over-engineered like that. You don't find this on the Rolls.

Well, is this necessary ...or just excessive?

Anyway you're right: it is a failure. I don't really like the Maybach, because it sure is bland and boring looking. Even the inside is not really well designed, it often looks like a mess with a lot of thinks everywhere without order or design effort.

I wouldn't call it a failure though -- it was the resurection of a brand ...and it did do that sucessfully. Despite everything, no one is laughing at Maybach, I think it does have credibility ...and in time might be the "Rolls beater" it was intended to be.

They already are testing the future Maybach.
So it seems they will keep the brand alive, which leads me to think that the OCD will may become a Maybach.

I think that too

And that, maybe, the F700 gives more clues about the future Maybach than about the future S-Class, as it has not the edgy, rigid look of actual Mercedes, but is more fluid like the OCD...

...and it is hideous.

 

[coolraoul]

Well no, I actually like the F700. Seriously, it has grown on me a lot. Really.
I was not really a fan of the OCD, and I now absolutely adore it...and the F700, if excessive, is really interesting.

The interior is very innovative too.
Of course, it's just a concept, and furthermore the F Concepts are not design studies, but I like it. No, that's true!

 

[Merc1]

^Wow, some stupid fanboy comments there. The Phantom has consistently been praised for its handling and amazing ridgity due to its state-of-the-art aluminium spaceframe. Sure, the 57S will outpace many sports cars, but thank God BMW realized that a twin-turbo V12 would have been completely wrong for a true Rolls-Royce. Maybe the "baby" Rolls will be more of a performance-orientated car.

Come on guys, the Maybach was built to out-do Bentley -- DCX had no idea how to build the kind of vehicle the Phantom is.

The buttons in the Maybach are "piano wood" black laquer.

What I'm trying to say about the Maybach is that it is a more capable road car. Sure the magazines say the Rolls can handle, for its size, but the Maybach is clearly better and the ride is far from harsh. Meaning it is more capable then the Rolls.

Not sure if anyone was saying that the Maybach was designed to outdo the Roller, of course MB didn't know what BMW was going to do with Rolls.

M

 

[SDNR]

Well no, I actually like the F700. Seriously, it has grown on me a lot. Really.
I was not really a fan of the OCD, and I now absolutely adore it...and the F700, if excessive, is really interesting.

The interior is very innovative too.
Of course, it's just a concept, and furthermore the F Concepts are not design studies, but I like it. No, that's true!

^ Well of course they are design studies ...and furthermore, much of the F700 appears to take direct inspiration from the same influential sources which have inspired Lexus and BMW.

Zaha Hadid

 

[coolraoul]

Well, is this necessary ...or just excessive?

Necessary, necessary...What does it mean? Is the over-engineering of an old Mercedes really necessary? Is it necessary to have an electrical rearview mirror? is it necessary to have a V12 or a 6m+ limo, or both?

If you really think to it...nobody needs more car than what a Golf can offer to you. All other are excessive. But it is what is interesting in them!

It is always the excess that made the man go further.
Technically the Maybach is sure excessive, it even has a Twin-SBC: two electro-hydraulic brake system (and one or two conventionnal mechanical brake sysrtem, just in case...).

I love these over-engineered details, remind me of the good old Merc's...They could have don a new W100 with that Maybach...but they completely failed..

 

[SDNR]

Not sure if anyone was saying that the Maybach was designed to outdo the Roller, of course MB didn't know what BMW was going to do with Rolls.

M

I don't think DCX would have known where to start even if they had known what BMW was planning.

The thing is, BMW acquired a whole different brand culture when it acquired Rolls-Royce -- sure, they had to build a new factory and then find some new workers to put the things together -- but they would have also had access to many historical aspects of the brand ...and importantly, some of the old staff from Crewe. This knowledge was invaluable in allowing the creation of a product with integrity and authenticity.

 

[SDNR]

Necessary, necessary...What does it mean? Is the over-engineering of an old Mercedes really necessary? Is it necessary to have an electrical rearview mirror? is it necessary to have a V12 or a 6m+ limo, or both?

If you really think to it...nobody needs more car than what a Golf can offer to you. All other are excessive. But it is what is interesting in them!

It is always the excess that made the man go further.
Technically the Maybach is sure excessive, it even has a Twin-SBC: two electro-hydraulic brake system (and one or two conventionnal mechanical brake sysrtem, just in case...).

I love these over-engineered details, remind me of the good old Merc's...They could have don a new W100 with that Maybach...but they completely failed..

Oh I love these over-engineered details too ....they are part of the Mercedes/Maybach culture -- but they don't necessarily make them automatically better products. A product is more than the sum of its parts ...you might say.

 

[coolraoul]

That's right, I agree, and that is why Maybach failed with the current generations. Technical perfection is not enough...

 

[bmer]

But is the Maybach actually as technologically advanced as you are trying to make us believe, coolraoul? Isn't the W221 in many areas much more advanced?

 

[PanterroR]

But is the Maybach actually as technologically advanced as you are trying to make us believe, coolraoul? Isn't the W221 in many areas much more advanced?

W O R D ! ! !

 

[coolraoul]

I said technically, not technologically.
Of course the W221 has more technology in it, telematics, infrared cam, Brake Assyst Plus, Distronic Plus...

But the Maybach is technically better, with all these over-engineered details I mentionned, and lots of others. It has a love for each detail that no other car has. The technology comes from the W220, but it is much more over-engineered.

It is in this way that is better than the Rolls or than any other car, in its sheer over-engineering of everything.

 

[vabboud]

not really, because the rolls is just AS over engineered, no recall has been issued, no major or minor bug released to the press, and as an addition the rolls doesn't show off whatever tech it has, and relies on old world opulence and luxury instead of defining luxury by the shear number of switches

 

[coolraoul]

Well I did not refer to the number of switches and the equipment.

I only said that the maybach has 3 fully independant air conditionners (one for the front, one for the rear, one for the fridge) to allow 2 different and independant climate zones, the fact that is has 2 callipers on each front disc to increase the braking power, the fact that it has not only the SBC (which allows a much better ESP control than conventionnal braking system) but a Twin-SBC system, and two conventionnal hydraulic system in case of a problem, so a total of 4 complete braking systems (your wife will cut the brake wire and it will do nothing more than lighting your instrument cluster...)

You see, I don't speak of all the electronical equipment and gadgetery. (I even read that the (doubled) wipers move every 3 days to preserve the material and avoid it from being stucked in the windshield.)


I don't speak either about the interior equipement.

All these are gizmos that don't make the quality of a car. And I agree that the Maybach shows off, but the Rolls is very vulgar too. For old world opulence and aristocratic luxury, you are better in a Bentley Arnage than in a Phantom.

Here I only speak of over-engineering and technical prowess that is, imo, unmatched in the Maybach. I don't want to say that the maybach is better or anything; only that it is technically even superior to the Phantom.

It takes nothing to the fact that I don't like it because it does not look good. But it is only a point that I want to make. The Maybach is technically the better made and most over-engineered car money can buy. Imo at least.

The Rolls has a better telematic system with the iDrive, a more modern aluminium chassis, and adjusting Rolls logo in the wheels. And it has a design. But technically, from what I know and unless someone proves me the contrary, the Maybach is more exceptionnal, with technical details nobody else has.

The Rolls is better designed, but according to all reviews or almost, not as silent, less nimble and more bodyrolling without beeing more comfortable. And I did not read about all these lovely technical prowesses the Maybach has. Nobody cares, but it shows how fabulous the Maybach is from a technical point of view. Even more than the Rolls, which already is a true masterpiece.

 

[vabboud]

you just opened a whole new can of worms
i'm pretty sure if you get a security version of the rolls you can pretty much get the redudndacy and added safety factor, but what is the point in having 4 redundant braking systems when one or 2 built perfectly will work just as fine
point is in 2008 what sells is design, quality, name, reliabilty, luxury, but not the type of overnengineering present in the maybach, especially if you don't take the time to market it, which is a mistake imo
people who have fear of brake wires being cut wil buy a security version of the car, people who do not have this fear might definitely like the idea of having 4 braking systems, but it will most definitely no be a selling point
i would be curious to know if rolls has any system redundancy

 

[coolraoul]

The Rolls sure have two braking systems, at least. Every actual car have two independant braking circuits.

-front right wheel and rear left wheel, and front left+rear right. If everything's fine you brake the four wheels, if one system fails you use only one system, eg. you can brake two wheels.

-front wheels and the four wheels. Same as precedent but if one fails, you can brake 4 or 2 wheels depending on which one fails. In every case you can brake the front wheels, the most important to brake the car.

-front wheels plus one rear wheel, and front wheel plus the other rear wheel. If one fails you can brake 3 wheels, always including the two front wheels.

-two independant systems, each one for the four wheels. It is surely what the Rolls has. If one fails the second also brake the four wheels.

And you also have the handbrake, which is a cable system (electronic system in some recent cars) acting ususally the rear wheels (some Alfa had the handbrake on the front wheels. Bad idea to make a drift). Only the Mercedes G-Class (at least I only know it for him) could optionnally have an hydraulical handbrake...and even a separate handbrake for each rear wheel, allowing it to turn spectacularly fast and in spectacularly little place: block one rear wheel, turn the steering and accelerate, it will almost turn on itself. Very useful feature on hard all-terrain.)

Here the Maybach has two complete SBC electro-hydraulic systems, and in case of a bug or a problem affecting the electro-hydraulic circuits it also has two complete conventionnal hydraulic braking circuits.

These four circuits are also divised in two diagonals systems (one front-one rear) so in fact you have 8 independant braking circuits, each one for two wheels, making a total of four complete systems.

These circuits are acting a unique brake disc with two callipers on each front discs. It offers much more friction surface, so better braking power, less fading, more constant utilisation of the braking material. it is absolutely unique.

See what I mean by over-engineering?

But what I wanted to point out is that the Maybach is a technical prowess, it is truly over-engineered. Everything in it is redundant, unique and absolutely brilliant from a technical point of view. It is technicallywise unmatched by the Rolls.

Of course you don't sell a car because it has 2 callipers per front disc, of course the design is not very exciting. That is why, like I said, I don't really like the Maybach. That is why I understand why the Rolls meets success, even if I personally hate it (as I don't have the money to buy one, Rolls don't care).

 

[SDNR]

^ OK, you've done a good good at explaining how the Maybach is better because it has 2 calipers on the front discs -- but I am not yet convinced that the Rolls is so technically inferior -- it offers pretty much everything one would expect and more.

 

[bmer]

I said technically, not technologically.

Sorry, I'm somewhat confused. I understood "technical" as "the use of technology in a specific way". You mainly told us about the Twin-SBC braking system which is a technological feature, isn't it? Do you mean the way/technique the Maybach is assembled is more special? If that's the case I don't think the Rolls is any less impressive in this area. Only the aluminium bodyframe is painted by two robots in the Goodwood plant, everything else is made by hand in keeping with the Rolls Royce tradition.

 

[Merc1]

Lots of good reading here.

I think what raoul is trying to say is that the Maybach is a more competent all arounder than the Rolls is and it does it with the old-school engineering excess that Mercedes-Benz is famous for.

Right the Maybach is about the number which is why it hasn't been a hit, but I don't think anyone here is trying to say that it has been a success, we're just speaking in terms of the cars themselves their technical aspects and build.

M

 

[SDNR]

^ well then Marcus, if we're talking about technical aspects and build ...then overall the Rolls wins.