Jeremy Clarkson on the BMW 730d SE

[ateekt]

Like I always say, he is a comedian & he can't take this factor out of his personality!

And never judge anyone by nice super-cars in his garage, money is the word here!

 

[Tarek]

Clarckson's star is fading out quickly. His time is definitely over.

So, he is starting to be very provocative & controversial with his claims more & more. And since #1 issue in UK is still racism etc. he is starting to use racistic & nationalistic claims in his "automotive" reviews ...

Lately he called British PM Brown an "one-eyed Scottish idiot", and I can see in this particular text about 730d SE he called Rafael Nadal "Spanish ape".








IMO such insults are beyond freedom of speech , journalism , artistic expression (incl. sarcasm, irony, satire etc) etc.

I hope a day when Clarkson is accused & convicted of hate speech will come soon. Or at least he losing his job, and getting expelled from media business.

What's too much is just too much.

Nationalistic connotation is implied in the context.

It's different when saying "Scottish idiot" or "Spanish ape", then "idiot from / (born in) Scotland" , or "ape from / (playing for) Spain". Completely different point. In the first case the emphasis is on adjective, in the second one on the subject itself. Scottish = of Scotland's nation, Spanish = of Spain's nation.

Clarkson is know for VERY politically incorrect language. Often very offensive - in nationalistic / racistic way. And he does that on purpose - to drag attention. Controversy = debate = maximum publicity.

Agreed

I've noticed that in many of his reviews and it didn't make me smile at all but disgusted,one of the main reasons i never take him seriously.

 

[MikeJ]

Nationalistic connotation is implied in the context.

It's different when saying "Scottish idiot" or "Spanish ape", then "idiot from / (born in) Scotland" , or "ape from / (playing for) Spain". Completely different point. In the first case the emphasis is on adjective, in the second one on the subject itself. Scottish = of Scotland's nation, Spanish = of Spain's nation.

Clarkson is know for VERY politically incorrect language. Often very offensive - in nationalistic / racistic way. And he does that on purpose - to drag attention. Controversy = debate = maximum publicity.

Actually, in standard English, when saying that you'd stress the important word (i.e. "That Scottish idiot" or "That Scottish idiot"). In that respect, the word order is not nearly as significant as it is in many other languages... Since the definition of "Scottish" is Of or belonging to Scotland or to the people of Scotland; esp. of persons: of Scotch nationality, birth, or descent (Oxford English Dictionary), there is no need to say "idiot from Scotland" instead of "Scottish idiot" unless the idiot in question happens to be from Scotland but not a Scot. [By the way, Clarkson later apologised by saying 'I'm sorry for calling Brown one-eyed and Scottish but not the idiot bit'.]

You're right about Clarkson being un-PC, and I applaud him for that. (I can't see anything racistic about his comments though.) We're being way too sensitive about what can and what cannot be said in public, even if there is no intention to insult anyone. As an example, Clarkson was once told that he cannot use the expression "taking the mickey" on Top Gear because it might offend the Irish - never mind that the expression actually comes from Cockney rhyming slang and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Irish. As for Clarkson himself, he's not what I'd call a racist. He's been quite happy to challenge his own prejudices and has not been afraid to face (and try to understand) the preconceptions and prejudices other people have against the English and himself in particular.

I prefer people to say what they think, that way there is a chance to discuss why they think like they do. All the misconceptions and prejudices people have will not go away if we just pretend they're not there.

 

[AYA]

Wow.. Interesting how people are saying his review does not mention the F01..

You do realize that it is a three PAGE review and that he DOES go into a discussion of the 7-series later on, right?

I guess the very sight of two stars blinded some of the more.. erm.. passionate people here.

Yes, Clarkson is opinionated. He is passionate. He is extremely un-PC, as MikeJ has already noted. But he is no fool. Every time I drive a car Clarkson comments on, I find myself laughing at how right he usually is. His time is not up. It will never be up. He relates to your average motoring enthusiasts, not to die-hard fans. (In fact, I'd like to think his mission is to upset those die-hard fans as regularly as possible.. and he seems to succeed in doing so.. from the Morris Marina fan club to the Porsche Owners Club )

 

[EnI]

Actually, in standard English, when saying that you'd stress the important word (i.e. "That Scottish idiot" or "That Scottish idiot"). In that respect, the word order is not nearly as significant as it is in many other languages... Since the definition of "Scottish" is Of or belonging to Scotland or to the people of Scotland; esp. of persons: of Scotch nationality, birth, or descent (Oxford English Dictionary), there is no need to say "idiot from Scotland" instead of "Scottish idiot" unless the idiot in question happens to be from Scotland but not a Scot. [By the way, Clarkson later apologised by saying 'I'm sorry for calling Brown one-eyed and Scottish but not the idiot bit'.]

You're right about Clarkson being un-PC, and I applaud him for that. (I can't see anything racistic about his comments though.) We're being way too sensitive about what can and what cannot be said in public, even if there is no intention to insult anyone. As an example, Clarkson was once told that he cannot use the expression "taking the mickey" on Top Gear because it might offend the Irish - never mind that the expression actually comes from Cockney rhyming slang and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Irish. As for Clarkson himself, he's not what I'd call a racist. He's been quite happy to challenge his own prejudices and has not been afraid to face (and try to understand) the preconceptions and prejudices other people have against the English and himself in particular.

I prefer people to say what they think, that way there is a chance to discuss why they think like they do. All the misconceptions and prejudices people have will not go away if we just pretend they're not there.

It's not all about intent ... but also about perception.

And a person who does not anticipate reaction from the public is either very ignorant, or very naive. Which I guess Clarkson is not - neither ignorant nor naive.

But when anticipating the reaction (being aware of perception) - then your intent is clear: to manipulate, to cause controversy, to polarize, to seek attention, to create publicity. On purpose - with a very certain intent & goal.

I'm not saying Clarkson per se is a racist or nationalist - but he is using such (PInc / offensive) language with a clear intent described above. Just like many populistic politicians are doing it.

He is a pure manipulartor. A very systematic manipulator. And I don't find that funny at all.

Yes, I understand he "tries" to be socially-critical in some way ... spicing-up his automotive reviews / write-ups ... But his style of language is there to intentionaly polarize / stir controversy. It's the easiest way to do it ... Using form over content. It's much more evident & more easily recognized these days. But I still prefer strong content over strong form ... An emphasis on a strong form can take antention away from the content. Just like in Clarkson's case ... Not a clever way to express an opinion ...


****

Btw, I disagree with him also on 7er review - saying the car has wrong characteristics for a segment it belongs: who want's a sporty car in luxury sedan segment. Why then people buy in this segment buy BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc? His view is very narrow: this segment is all about luxury & comfort, and all the other cars which do not offer superb comfort are pointless.

Again: not the narrowminded "journalists" are out there to talk what's pointles and it's not ... Customers are the one to decide. And they do. That's why also cars like 7er, A8, XJ etc. find quite some buyers in this segment. Actually ... Correct me if I'm wrong but in this particular segment the sales of 7er+A8+XJ (sports) are on par if not exceeding the sales of S-class+LS (comfort).

 

[ree]

Come on guys - if you don't like his style, then don't read his reviews! Before we are starting here a general discussion about moral, ethic etc…!

We all know, that he is one of those "journalists", who loves to provoke! Discussing about his journalist future will not change a thing!

 

[coolraoul]

You're over-sensitive here EnI. There's nothing racist in his comments.

Clarkson has never made it a mystery that he is here to entertain people. He is not here to give you the exact size of the glovebox or to measure the diameter of the intercooler. He's not here to give you a scientific review with facts and to proove his points. You don't read his review expecting a very objective result.

He's here to amuse people while giving an opinion on a car. And, while his opinions are usually excessive (in order to entertain), they are often somehow justified. In that I fully agree with AYA or Mike. He's sometimes surprisingly right...

He's being excessive in its points rankings, in its phrasing, in its comparisons, in the examples he gives. What he says cannot be taken seriously. But if you back up a bit, take it with a pince of salt, he's often right on. He's not the first to say that this new 7er is too sporty for its own good. You may disagree with him, that is no problem. But don't take him seriously, please!

His show and reviews are like comedy or one-men-shows, he's criticizing things with a very excessive and unrealistic tone.


It's humor! British humor. I love that kind of humor. Top Gear is here to entertain people, and entertaining usually involved excess.

Why so serious, EnI? Just because he gave your beloved Beemer bad marks?

 

[Deleted member 25]

Actually raoul i don't think he said that clarkson was racist.

 

[coolraoul]

Well he spoke about nationalistic connotations and racism... On-purpose provokation or true racism, EnI says he plays with the fire in order to provoke and obtain recognition... A Manipulator...

While I disagree. He does that to entertain, and actually I find it entertaining. You clearly see that he's not serious about all these questions. He's saying Scotthish idiot like he says cock... Did you take what he said about left-handed people seriously?

All three of them, in TG, are playing with that. Accusing each other to look like a gay terrorist ot whatever. There's nothing serious about that. It's not about manipulation, it's about humor.


I don't think Clarkson wrote this review of the 7-Series in order to get worldwide attention, create a universe-scaled controversy and become the subject of the next NATO-meeting.

 

[MikeJ]

I'm not saying Clarkson per se is a racist or nationalist - but he is using such (PInc / offensive) language with a clear intent described above. Just like many populistic politicians are doing it.

Actually, I think that he makes populistic politicians look ridiculous by stealing their lines and turning them into jokes.

He is a pure manipulartor. A very systematic manipulator. And I don't find that funny at all.

Now don't take this the wrong way, but you used to do marketing and now work in PR, don't you?

 

[EnI]

Oh, yeah ...

Using PInc language to "entertain" is just like using sexual content / language (usually very sexistic) for "entertaining" purposes. Cheap & uninteligent.

Soooo funny. Not.

I guess that bishop Williamson who denies the existence of Holocaust (yes, he thinks it's all made up, and gas chambers were there for disinfection reasons ) is currently the biggest entertainer in the world. Yeah, right!


And ... Clarkson ... He usually writes something to get attention ... Do you think he uses such language just for his own fun? I don't think so. The intent here is very clear.

Btw, bashing wrapped as a humor is very questionable. I don't support such kind of humor at all. And I'm very liberal, and open-minded. But I find such indirect bashing very annoying & potentially very dangerous - since it signals such behavior is OK. Making fun of someone is legit only when the also the bashed one finds it funny. Such kind of "humor" - when persistantly used in working place - is called mobbing, and it's misdemeanor or even a felony.

PS: I guess Rafael Nadal doesn't find it very funny being called a "Spanish ape". Nor I guess do the Spaniards.

 

[coolraoul]

^^ Okay, so for you comedy means getting splashed by water only, because anything involving criticism is insulting?

I fail to see the resemblance between Clarkson saying unrealistic things in a funny car-review and a bishop who is seriously stating that the Shoah never existed. Really, I don't.

Nobody can take what Clarkon says for the reality. He says it in a humoristic way, in a humoristic text, always making sure that what he says is soo completely excessive that it cannot be misunderstood.

If you think that Nadal looks like an ape, and that therefore what Clarkson says reflects his real feeling about him, and that furthermore Clarkson wants to say that all Spanish are apes, then it's your problem. But I don't think it's exactly what Clarkson said.

The Bishop did not say it in a humoristic way at all. He was dead serious about that, and that is very very problematic.

Comedy usually involves criticism of the society, criticism of certain persons specificly, excess, and often sexual plays on words. That is called humor. Humor allows to say many things without being taken as an offender.

Clarkson makes a comedy show, only about cars. Don't take it as manipulation, it's humor. Cynic, british humor.

 

[Zafiro]

Why are we having this discussion?
Who cares what Clarkson thinks, if he doesn't like the 730d thats fine, there are many others standing in line to buy a new 7-serie.

 

[EnI]

If you think that Nadal looks like an ape, and that therefore what Clarkson says reflects his real feeling about him, and that furthermore Clarkson wants to say that all Spanish are apes, then it's your problem. But I don't think it's exactly what Clarkson said.

List some left-handed tennis players by name, and then describe another one as "that Spanish ape whose name I've forgotten" is a pure insult, and has no function to entertain, or be funny at all. Sorry. It's just insulting.

Would you feel OK being named "French dick" or "French pig" in some text of mine about Z4? I guess not. Nor would the other members reading that.

Clarkson makes a comedy show, only about cars. Don't take it as manipulation, it's humor. Cynic, british humor.

Insulting particular person, or even group has nothing to do with comedy - especially not comedy about cars.

I love British humor in general ... but in that case Clarkson is a very, very bad example of a British humorist. He's just too arrogant to be funny.

 

[Centurion]

The power of God compels him to stop speaking and writing in tongues.

 

[ree]

Probably you should stop the discussion here!! We will not get any result!! Some like Clarkson's style - some do not! As I already mentioned is this generel discussion about moral and things someone should do or someone shouldn't!! It's like discussing about the wars over the world…we can not change the situation or anything! Clarkson will not read this here - and things like this will not change his writing style and his opinions.

I think, everyone shows his/her very own point of view - but we don't have to fill thousands of pages with this.

 

[Giannis]

It's quite interesting, ree, this conversation. Sooner or later we would discuss the "why" behind Clarkson's writing style, and now it's done, very civilized with many interesting arguments. I'd like to hear more opinions on this subject.

 

[ree]

It's quite interesting, ree, this conversation. Sooner or later we would discuss the "why" behind Clarkson's writing style, and now it's done, very civilized with many interesting arguments. I'd like to hear more opinions on this subject.

Well…you are definitely right! Maybe we should open a special thread for this discussion where we can interpret a lot more interesting stuff, Clarkson wrote and say on his TV shows… …because it isn't only on BMW reviews…couldn't remember a review of him, where he didn't "live" his style…

 

[coolraoul]

List some left-handed tennis players by name, and then describe another one as "that Spanish ape whose name I've forgotten" is a pure insult, and has no function to entertain, or be funny at all. Sorry. It's just insulting.

Thing is... Nadal is currently the most successful and well-known tennisman in the world. So basically, Clarkson listed some names, some of them i have never heard of, and then refers to the most famous of them all as "whose name i've forgotten". That is funny, and agin soo excessive that it can't be taken seriously. I actually found it, if not funny, at least amusing.

Would you feel OK being named "French dick" or "French pig" in some text of mine about Z4? I guess not. Nor would the other members reading that.

It all depends of the context. if it's in the middle of a funny text/discussion, obviously not intended as an insult, I wouldn't mind (but i'm very cool and open-minded you know ). If it's just an insult thrown at me, I'd take it quite badly.

Insulting particular person, or even group has nothing to do with comedy - especially not comedy about cars.

I love British humor in general ... but in that case Clarkson is a very, very bad example of a British humorist. He's just too arrogant to be funny.

I disagree here. Comedy is often, if not always, about mocking other people. It all comes down to how you do it, but comedy is often a criticism of specificly designated persons. Just like caricature!
Here, it was just an attempt to be funny in a sentence, perhaps not the funniest and most spirited moment of Clarkson but nothing to be shocked by imo.



Funny thing is... You and me are completely opposed, EnI. Everytime you have an opinion, it happens that I think the contrary... it's quite an amusing thing don't you think? But very interesting, as I quite like our arguments.

 

[martinbo]

The English are renowned for a certain, un-PC, but altogether endearing trait; it's called Pulling the Piss. It's about making light of people, situations, countries and whatever more with no real malice or harm intended. It's a way of subtly steering away from taking things too seriously.

I'm left-handed. And an avid tennis player. And I laughed my arse off at Clarkson's review. Of course he knows who Rafael Nadal is. Maybe like me he's decidely disappointed that Rafa is so imperious at the moment. Poor Roger. So, he pokes a bit of fun.

He too pokes a bit of fun at the 7er. It's all in the context of taking things "not too seriously". After all, it's just a car... and in the grand scheme of things...? Y'know, being left-handed I often get in and drive a nice car with a good manual gearbox and think that right-hand drive cars were in some sick form of coincidence ideally oriented for lefties. In my opinion, for all lefties, all cars should be right-hand drive and for all righties, left-hand drive...

Clarkson is funny, his shows are sell-outs, his books are great to read and he knows much more than he ever lets on.

And he just gave the 7er a big fat two-star rating in a column that just pulls the piss and nothing more. So what's the problem?