German Cars Amongst Worst Engine Failures

[DblPen]

Did you miss my Mercedes from the 70s?

@Sunny i ain't never buying a BMW again, if i win one on lottery ile sell it pronto.

F those cars! Plus im a grown ass man, grown ass men can't drive BMWs.. its like being 50 and having a ducati kinda pathetic

I will forgive you for this comment because of your avatar. Lovely

 

[C4L]

Jokes aside, 2-3% is still a very low percentage. Do you guys think it's an acceptable standard? 2-3 cars out of every hundred?

Yes, this is very low. Think about these numbers in real-life/world terms, not just statistics.

Audi - 1 in 27
Merc - 1 in 119

Say the average new car owner keeps their cars for 4-6 years. Lets use 5 for math sake.

With an Audi it would take you 135 years of continuous ownership to statistically have ONE engine failure.
With a Mercedes it would take you 595 years of continuous ownership to statistically have ONE engine failure.

Even if you kept a car for 3 years and ONLY bought ONE brand your entire life it would take 81 years for Audi or 357 years for Mercedes to have an engine failure.

Of course people aren't even ONLY buying ONE brand for their entire life so the real-world numbers are even lower yet. If you even alternated between Merc/Audi and another brand evenly, they would be statistically twice as long. 270 years for the Audi to have 1 failure and 1,190 years for the Merc to have 1 failure. Statistical anomalies and nothing more...

While those numbers are quite telling as propagated statistics, they are both virtually meaningless to actual owners who are very unlikely to experience the issue.

And of course one needs to take into account things like other posters have mentioned when it comes to the particular vehicle and not entire brand and how it was maintained, driven, and how old or with how many miles it has.

 

[Giannis]

One thing that really bothers me is that many people around here don't really keep their cars that much. I doubt that the first 5 years of ownership will yield that many problems. True reliability only shows in the long run, in my opinion.

 

[Sayyaaf]

One thing that really bothers me is that many people around here don't really keep their cars that much. I doubt that the first 5 years of ownership will yield that many problems. True reliability only shows in the long run, in my opinion.

I don't know about that any more. Terrain and environment are huge factors. Where i live, hot climat and humidity can kill anything in less than 3 years with gd abuse.

 

[Giannis]

I don't know about that any more. Terrain and environment are huge factors. Where i live, hot climat and humidity can kill anything in less than 3 years with gd abuse.

The way I change cars, 3 years sounds like a second compared to a year.

In any case, reliability is a very complex thing. As far as the scientific aspect (not the "statistical") is concerned, the last few days I have been digging into this (more precisely incorporating a reliability analysis in the design phase of a structure, as opposed to just follow a set of given design rules and call it a day) and I am stunned with the level of maths and statistical analyses involved in this. It's not a joke, or something to take lightly.

In any case, we should consider what exactly is what breaks down, or is considered a failure and at which mileage. For instance, most parts of a car have a finite life and will fail at some point. You can't expect a light bulb to last an eternity, but then again, an AC compressor shouldn't blow up after just two years. An alternator can't call it a day before 300.000km, and I'd be stunned to see one reaching the 400.000km mark. Two days ago the fuel pump of my Clio decided to leave this hopeless world and my mechanic didn't believe it was working for 350.000km faultlessly! Such incidents are normal. Also, this 25 years old piece of french automotive machinery has absolutely no signs of rust, yet it lived all its life right next to the sea.

On the other hand, the leak of the clutch bearing of my 150.000km old S60 is not normal.

At least in my field, reliability is a very specific term and I try not to associate it with the levels of hassle a certain car causes me. Most, if not all, of my Clio's current issues either arrived right on time, or were caused by me.

 

[Sayyaaf]

The way I change cars, 3 years sounds like a second compared to a year.

In any case, reliability is a very complex thing. As far as the scientific aspect (not the "statistical") is concerned, the last few days I have been digging into this (more precisely incorporating a reliability analysis in the design phase of a structure, as opposed to just follow a set of given design rules and call it a day) and I am stunned with the level of maths and statistical analyses involved in this. It's not a joke, or something to take lightly.

In any case, we should consider what exactly is what breaks down, or is considered a failure and at which mileage. For instance, most parts of a car have a finite life and will fail at some point. You can't expect a light bulb to last an eternity, but then again, an AC compressor shouldn't blow up after just two years. An alternator can't call it a day before 300.000km, and I'd be stunned to see one reaching the 400.000km mark. Two days ago the fuel pump of my Clio decided to leave this hopeless world and my mechanic didn't believe it was working for 350.000km faultlessly! Such incidents are normal. Also, this 25 years old piece of french automotive machinery has absolutely no signs of rust, yet it lived all its life right next to the sea.

On the other hand, the leak of the clutch bearing of my 150.000km old S60 is not normal.

At least in my field, reliability is a very specific term and I try not to associate it with the levels of hassle a certain car causes me. Most, if not all, of my Clio's current issues either arrived right on time, or were caused by me.

One) totally agree man but let me just give you few hints: BMW decided at some point that their castrol oil lubricating their engines are good for 24K millage! that was really really brave to say the least but it shown they miscalculated our region. The oil thinning overtime and the consumer behavior over here, failed the ambitious long service intervals. We really push our cars hard due to the fact we have good stretch of roads. So engines failed at higher rates than anticipated, and BMW lowered the service interval.

Two) Take AC compressors for example, usually they work with the climate control settings to maintain certain temperature. the common practice here is people just don't bother and sit it @ "Low" and keep it cooling as long as they are still in the car. Sometimes they even leave the engine on just to have the car cool when its 40+ outside. So compressors never really stop working since you will never reach such temps inside the cabin and climate controller will keep asking for cold air. So they break quite often. Germans tried to relax the thresholds for temps but it didn't work, customers complained about german ACs being too soft for our climate and eventually they Germans outsourced them to different (I guess Japanese) suppliers.

As they say, MTBF always depend on the weakest link and not the toughest nail. It could be a loose bolt or an engine overhaul. Both are equal in these reports.

But I guess another challenge to reliability is electronics. Temp thresholds, vibrations and the actual wear of electrical harness is difficult to balance.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Yes, this is very low. Think about these numbers in real-life/world terms, not just statistics.

Audi - 1 in 27
Merc - 1 in 119

Say the average new car owner keeps their cars for 4-6 years. Lets use 5 for math sake.

With an Audi it would take you 135 years of continuous ownership to statistically have ONE engine failure.
With a Mercedes it would take you 595 years of continuous ownership to statistically have ONE engine failure.

Even if you kept a car for 3 years and ONLY bought ONE brand your entire life it would take 81 years for Audi or 357 years for Mercedes to have an engine failure.

Of course people aren't even ONLY buying ONE brand for their entire life so the real-world numbers are even lower yet. If you even alternated between Merc/Audi and another brand evenly, they would be statistically twice as long. 270 years for the Audi to have 1 failure and 1,190 years for the Merc to have 1 failure. Statistical anomalies and nothing more...

While those numbers are quite telling as propagated statistics, they are both virtually meaningless to actual owners who are very unlikely to experience the issue.

And of course one needs to take into account things like other posters have mentioned when it comes to the particular vehicle and not entire brand and how it was maintained, driven, and how old or with how many miles it has.

LOL, that has to be the worst interpretation of statistics I've read in my whole life.

 

[Merc1]

LOL, that has to be the worst interpretation of statistics I've read in my whole life.

It's a bullshit attempt to make Audi/VW's sorry placement on this list look better. A grand excuse if you will. Bottom line is that if they didn't have a problem they wouldn't be on the bottom of the list.

M

 

[mini_cooper4]

LOL, that has to be the worst interpretation of statistics I've read in my whole life.

Yeah... if I trust his calculations I should count two weeks as 600years since our W220 S500 got an engine failure on the second week of ownership... whole engine had to be replaced! The only brand new car we ever owned that got an engine failure.
All BMW's were flawless. We didn't own any brand new Audi's(ohh I had one Q7 but it was one of the company cars I sold)... I'll report on Audi after a few years(knocks on wood)

 

[C4L]

LOL, that has to be the worst interpretation of statistics I've read in my whole life.

That is literally what those numbers mean. Now, the question comes into WHEN you have an engine failure, not if. It could occur in your first experience or it could occur in your last experience. You just never know. But statistically, the frequency is precisely as I conveyed as those are what the actual numbers show.

How would you interpret those statistics/numbers?
What do they mean to you?

 

[C4L]

It's a bullshit attempt to make Audi/VW's sorry placement on this list look better. A grand excuse if you will. Bottom line is that if they didn't have a problem they wouldn't be on the bottom of the list.

M

Just numbers Marcus. I didn't make them up. Try thinking for yourself and you might be able to garner some relevance from statistics your clearly don't understand. Maybe...

 

[Merc1]

Just numbers Marcus. I didn't make them up. Try thinking for yourself and you might be able to garner some relevance from statistics your clearly don't understand. Maybe...

Try thinking about how much bullshit you constantly have to come up with for VW/Audi reliability and then think about if they were to actually fix their problems, you woudln't have to work so hard. Your "statistics" are nothing more than bullshit, Pete. Nothing could be more irrelevant.


M

 

[C4L]

Try thinking about how much bullshit you constantly have to come up with for VW/Audi reliability and then think about if they were to actually fix their problems, you woudln't have to work so hard. Your "statistics" are nothing more than bullshit, Pete. Nothing could be more irrelevant.


M

I didn't have to come up with anything. I didn't make the survey. I didn't make the numbers. They aren't 'MY' statistics. They are what they are. The truth is self-evident Marcus. And in this case I simply responded to a question presented by another member.

If the conclusion rendered is irrelevant it is because the data leads you believe that, not me. And I would agree this data is irrelevant. I changed/altered/'twisted' nothing. It's just numbers. BASIC MATH. It is IMPOSSIBLE for this to be bullshit, sorry...

 

[Merc1]

I didn't have to come up with anything. I didn't make the survey. I didn't make the numbers. They aren't 'MY' statistics. They are what they are. The truth is self-evident Marcus. And in this case I simply responded to a question presented by another member.

If the conclusion rendered is irrelevant it is because the data leads you believe that, not me. And I would agree this data is irrelevant. I changed/altered/'twisted' nothing. It's just numbers. BASIC MATH. It is IMPOSSIBLE for this to be bullshit, sorry...

Yawn. More bullshit. Basic Math isn't needed for brands that score better. The only reason you're here is to craft an excuse. You "basic math" and "statistics" MEAN NOTHING.



M

 

[C4L]

Yawn. More bullshit. Basic Math isn't needed for brands that score better. The only reason you're here is to craft an excuse. You "basic math" and "statistics" MEAN NOTHING.



M

Ok. Thanks for sharing. Maybe tell the source creator, not me as the messenger...

 

[Sunny]

Sorry Marcus, I think you are being unfair. The survey might have loopholes, but not C4L's fault. The chances of seeing an engine failure in a modern car in your life time, let alone the car's is very minute - which is all what he is pointing out.

 

[Merc1]

Ok. Thanks for sharing. Maybe tell the source creator, not me as the messenger...

Consider yourself shot.

M

 

[C4L]

Sorry Marcus, I think you are being unfair. The survey might have loopholes, but not C4L's fault. The chances of seeing an engine failure in a modern car in your life time, let alone the car's is very minute - which is all what he is pointing out.

He is a hater. Don't ruin his day by making his 'hating' feel unjustified...

 

[Merc1]

Sorry Marcus, I think you are being unfair. The survey might have loopholes, but not C4L's fault. The chances of seeing an engine failure in a modern car in your life time, let alone the car's is very minute - which is all what he is pointing out.

Then we have to agree to disagree. The only reason this statistics lesson (and a piss poor one at that) was given is because this survey showed a VAG brand to be at the bottom. Nothing more. If it were anyone else we wouldn't have to read any of this.

M

 

[Merc1]

He is a hater. Don't ruin his day by making his 'hating' feel unjustified...

Really? This is from the person who LIVES to talk down to anyone that doesn't worship VW/Audi? That is really rich.

M