TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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F1 Formula 1 - 2023 Season
- Thread starter TopspeedPT
- Start date
TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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Joelpeyeye
Porsche Perfektionist
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F1 – Pérez quickest for Red Bull as pre-season testing draws to a close in Bahrain
Sergio Pérez set the fastest time of the three days of pre-season testing in Bahrain with the Mexican racer beating Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton by more than three tenths of a second as Valtteri Botta took third spot for Alfa Romeo ahead of Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc.As his defending champion...
TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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Don't get your hopes too high. Max is the boss at RB.
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Joelpeyeye
Porsche Perfektionist
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totally agree 
f1-insider.com
Ecclestone bricht Schweigen über F1-Skandal: Schumacher wäre alleiniger Rekordweltmeister | F1-Insider.com
Bernie Ecclestone ist für seine kontroversen Aussagen bekannt. Hier verrät er, welchen Formel-1-Skandal er besser nicht verhindert hätte. Lewis Hamilton
f1-insider.com
SKY
Silver Arrow Expert
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Or the boss at F1.
LaArtist
Wunderkind of Wheels
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Or matter of fact 9 cause he needs to plus Hamilton by 1
Porsche Guy
Kraftkurve King
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F1 is 90% car and 10% driver. If you're not in a competitive car, you aren't going to win anything. Put Hamilton, Vettle, or Schumacher in different cars and they aren't winning that many titles.
Bottom line, F1 is a team sport.
Bottom line, F1 is a team sport.
SKY
Silver Arrow Expert
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Man, still with the Hamilton thing?
He won 7 WCs, so did Schumi, and when Hamilton had already 3 or 4 you could already say he was the king.
Max is the current king of this sport. He might not be in 2 or 3 years. But I highly doubt the one that comes after him is once again Hamilton.
TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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Max has zero legit tittles.
2021: Max wasn't punished the whole season when he infringed the rules in many races(crash into others, etc). And the cherry on top...when Masi infringed the SC rules in the last race.
2022: RB went over the budget in 2021(catering
) and that helped them alot in the 2022 car development. And that advantage will last several years. RB will win again this year for sure. Crime does pay.
LaArtist
Wunderkind of Wheels
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True i forgot about the cost capMax has zero legit tittles.
2021: Max wasn't punished the whole season when he infringed the rules in many races(crash into others, etc). And the cherry on top...when Masi infringed the SC rules in the last race.
2022: RB went over the budget in 2021(catering
duesy
Quattro Commander
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Might have to wait a couple of weeks to become entirely sure about this, but are we realizing that Mercedes was fast/dominant insofar as it could outspend the rest of the grid (before the budget cap rules were enforced)? Their practice pace was embarrassing today.
Bucketslash11
Das Beste Enthusiast
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exactly, put Hamilton in a Lola 97/30 (Mastercard Lola) against Magnussen in a Ferrari 310B and it would be an easy victory for Magnussen
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That conclusion would not make sense. Mercedes were dominant mostly because they did the best job of designing and engineering their car. Sometimes they spent more, some times other teams spent more. There's numerous examples of teams with the biggest budget not even winning a race, and examples of teams with a comparably small budget winning the championship.
For the element of difference a driver makes, this is not cost capped, if somebody believes Mercedes were dominant because of Hamilton, then in this regard they are outspending most other teams, but as we've seen numerous times, Hamilton is not solely the difference between winning and not winning, so I'd argue being able to outspend on drivers only has limited effect and it's likely that none of the recent champions were on mega-bucks when they first proved they were worth champion-sized pay cheques.
The running order hasn't changed much with the cost cap despite all the teams being on a level, that demonstrates it's about the quality of the team, not the size of the bank account.
duesy
Quattro Commander
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I must echo the opinion that F1 success depends on the car—and I'd say up to 95%. Drivers can be pegged only against a driver from their own team and only *maybe* against another team whose car is highly similar in design philosophy and engine output, i.e., I really think it takes more skill to drive a Newey/RB car than a Ferrari or Mercedes design due to the vastly different approach of the former to aerodynamics. So, no, I wasn't referring to driver contracts.
But I could be wrong about my claim. If my memory serves me right, the Mercedes budget was significantly more than the rest of the grid before the cost cap era. Right?
duesy
Quattro Commander
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Figures from 2019:
1. Mercedes
$484 million (17.89%)
2. Ferrari
$463 million (17.12%)
3. Red Bull Racing
$445 million (16.45%)
4. Renault
$272 million (10.06%)
5. McLaren
$269 million (9.94%)
Now, add the cumulative effect of outspending the second-best on the grid by nearly $20 million per season over multiple seasons––and the middle of the pack by a whopping $200 million––and you end up with proper technological advantage and race dominance.
1. Mercedes
$484 million (17.89%)
2. Ferrari
$463 million (17.12%)
3. Red Bull Racing
$445 million (16.45%)
4. Renault
$272 million (10.06%)
5. McLaren
$269 million (9.94%)
Now, add the cumulative effect of outspending the second-best on the grid by nearly $20 million per season over multiple seasons––and the middle of the pack by a whopping $200 million––and you end up with proper technological advantage and race dominance.
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They didn't outspend the grid by $20 million per season. They did in 2019, in 2018 Ferrari outspent everyone and Mercedes still won. In 2017 they did, in 2016 Ferrari did (by $131 million) and Mercedes still won. In 2015 Red Bull and Mclaren outspent Mercedes, and Mercedes still won.
Toyota had one of the biggest budgets in F1 ever at one time and never won a single race. Alonso era Renault won it's titles with a considerably smaller budget than the top teams at the time.
If you're a team that wins, you'll likely have a bigger budget (prize money, sponsorship, rights).
If you're a team that has a bigger budget, you might win more. You might not.
duesy
Quattro Commander
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Fair enough, but it is also obvious that Mercedes has been a top 1-2 spender for nearly a decade, right? That matters when the budget is capped at $145 million for this season, a fraction of what Mercedes operations used to depend on (by the way, Toyota is an outlier in F1 terms). The accumulated technical and infrastructural capital alone will win you races in the coming years.
