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I think one more crappy race like that and Daniel will replace that rodent @Joelpeyeye
That fastest lap is beyond meaningless.
That fastest lap is beyond meaningless.
F1 Formula 1 - 2023 Season
- Thread starter TopspeedPT
- Start date
kiki voinea
Cornering Connoisseur
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what does this suppose to mean?
TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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At this pace Alonso will be 2nd in the championship. Perez is lost.
kiki voinea
Cornering Connoisseur
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- 1,967
Alonso at 42. Perez with the best car
Joelpeyeye
Porsche Perfektionist
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- 796
If Sergio Perez has a car as good as Alonso's Aston Martin in the following races, he will be able to defend second place in the championship.
Joelpeyeye
Porsche Perfektionist
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- 796
In the tests that Daniel Ricciardo has done in the Redbull simulator, he has had terrible results that are not even enough to replace Nick de Vries
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I wonder what Alonso's performance makes Verstappen and Hamilton think about retirement. They clearly have a long runway ahead of them.
TopspeedPT
Track Technician
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I think Alonso and Hamilton will be in F1 for many years (3-5). They are those kind of athetles that don't lose their skills in their 30's, unlike Vettel/Raikkonen etc.
Max is still young (25y) but he said many times before that he might not be in F1 when he's 30. I think he wants to go to endurance racing.
Joelpeyeye
Porsche Perfektionist
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UNEXPLICATED DIFFERENCES
The other Red Bull has a problem with Verstappen's empire (and it's not Checo's fault)
The poor performance of the Mexican in these last three races is disconcerting, when he was fighting face to face with Max Verstappen at the beginning of this season
mpression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
UNEXPLICATED DIFFERENCES
The other Red Bull has a problem with Verstappen's empire (and it's not Checo's fault)
The poor performance of the Mexican in these last three races is disconcerting, when he was fighting face to face with Max Verstappen at the beginning of this season
It's a pattern that has been seen before at Red Bull: Max Verstappen pulls a huge gap over his teammate, giving the impression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
It is simply impossible to go from contesting victories and pole positions with Max Verstappen to not being able to reach Q3 in three consecutive races with the best car on the grid. Nobody forgets to drive from one week to the next, so there has to be another explanation for the sudden drop in performance. If Checo had never been close to the Dutch, there would be no debate. But when someone is capable of lapping tenths of Supermax times, as Checo has done on several occasions, it's obvious that you're a great driver. For those who do not find the example of Checo Pérez useful, let's look at the case of Alex Albon. During the time that the Thai driver and Verstappen lived together at Red Bull, things were even more disappointing than what we see with the Mexican. So poor did his performance become that he had to leave through the back door of Formula 1 and find a place in the German touring car championship. Luckily for Albon, Red Bull's Thai connection (which owns 50 per cent of the company) gave him a second chance. And it turns out that today, driving the theoretical worst car on the grid, there you have Alex Albon doing a run in the last Canadian Grand Prix. And, by the way, being nominated as driver of the day.
It's a pattern that has been seen before at Red Bull: Max Verstappen pulls a huge gap over his teammate, giving the impression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
It is simply impossible to go from contesting victories and pole positions with Max Verstappen to not being able to reach Q3 in three consecutive races with the best car on the grid. Nobody forgets to drive from one week to the next, so there has to be another explanation for the sudden drop in performance. If Checo had never been close to the Dutch, there would be no debate. But when someone is capable of lapping tenths of Supermax times, as Checo has done on several occasions, it's obvious that you're a great driver. For those who do not find the example of Checo Pérez useful, let's look at the case of Alex Albon. During the time that the Thai driver and Verstappen lived together at Red Bull, things were even more disappointing than what we see with the Mexican. So poor did his performance become that he had to leave through the back door of Formula 1 and find a place in the German touring car championship. Luckily for Albon, Red Bull's Thai connection (which owns 50 per cent of the company) gave him a second chance. And it turns out that today, driving the theoretical worst car on the grid, there you have Alex Albon doing a run in the last Canadian Grand Prix. And, by the way, being nominated as driver of the day.
A repeating pattern
If Albon's classification differentials with respect to Verstappen are analyzed, it is a fact that sometimes there is even less distance between the two today, when they respectively drive the best and worst car on the grid, than when they shared (theoretically) the same car at Red Bull. The same exercise can be done with Pierre Gasly, because it is also a verifiable fact that there was often less difference between him and Verstappen when he was driving the decaffeinated Red Bull that is the Alpha Tauri than when they shared a black-legged car. A specific situation with a pilot can happen, but two starts to be suspicious.
If Checo, Albon or Gasly were a second slower than Verstappen with the same car, there would have to be a greater distance when they drive worse cars than Red Bull. And not only is this not the case, but it is often the other way around. Where is the explanation for the poor performance of a pilot as soon as he is placed on the other side of Verstappen's garage? It's obvious that Supermax is pure kryptonite to any driver who approaches him, but there has to be more than just an intimidation factor. Something happens in that second car so that the pilot does not shine as it should. One plausible theory is Red Bull's permanent focus on developing its cars towards Max Verstappen's very particular driving style. This configuration could become so extreme that the pilots drive a car that is simply undriveable for them. This is neither the first nor the last time that this has happened in Formula 1. There are many historical examples that show that if you give a driver shoes that are too far from your size, it is impossible for them to run as they know how.
www.elconfidencial.com
The other Red Bull has a problem with Verstappen's empire (and it's not Checo's fault)
The poor performance of the Mexican in these last three races is disconcerting, when he was fighting face to face with Max Verstappen at the beginning of this season
mpression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
UNEXPLICATED DIFFERENCES
The other Red Bull has a problem with Verstappen's empire (and it's not Checo's fault)
The poor performance of the Mexican in these last three races is disconcerting, when he was fighting face to face with Max Verstappen at the beginning of this season
It's a pattern that has been seen before at Red Bull: Max Verstappen pulls a huge gap over his teammate, giving the impression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
It is simply impossible to go from contesting victories and pole positions with Max Verstappen to not being able to reach Q3 in three consecutive races with the best car on the grid. Nobody forgets to drive from one week to the next, so there has to be another explanation for the sudden drop in performance. If Checo had never been close to the Dutch, there would be no debate. But when someone is capable of lapping tenths of Supermax times, as Checo has done on several occasions, it's obvious that you're a great driver. For those who do not find the example of Checo Pérez useful, let's look at the case of Alex Albon. During the time that the Thai driver and Verstappen lived together at Red Bull, things were even more disappointing than what we see with the Mexican. So poor did his performance become that he had to leave through the back door of Formula 1 and find a place in the German touring car championship. Luckily for Albon, Red Bull's Thai connection (which owns 50 per cent of the company) gave him a second chance. And it turns out that today, driving the theoretical worst car on the grid, there you have Alex Albon doing a run in the last Canadian Grand Prix. And, by the way, being nominated as driver of the day.
It's a pattern that has been seen before at Red Bull: Max Verstappen pulls a huge gap over his teammate, giving the impression that we are dealing with a bad driver. Then it turns out that this driver, who seems not up to the challenge, shines and performs at high altitude when driving other cars. No one disputes that Max is one of a kind. The lack of a colossus at the height of the Dutchman among the pilots of his generation is evident. But it is one thing to have a certain superiority and quite another for it to appear that Checo Pérez, Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon are pure mediocrity. Something smells bad.
It is simply impossible to go from contesting victories and pole positions with Max Verstappen to not being able to reach Q3 in three consecutive races with the best car on the grid. Nobody forgets to drive from one week to the next, so there has to be another explanation for the sudden drop in performance. If Checo had never been close to the Dutch, there would be no debate. But when someone is capable of lapping tenths of Supermax times, as Checo has done on several occasions, it's obvious that you're a great driver. For those who do not find the example of Checo Pérez useful, let's look at the case of Alex Albon. During the time that the Thai driver and Verstappen lived together at Red Bull, things were even more disappointing than what we see with the Mexican. So poor did his performance become that he had to leave through the back door of Formula 1 and find a place in the German touring car championship. Luckily for Albon, Red Bull's Thai connection (which owns 50 per cent of the company) gave him a second chance. And it turns out that today, driving the theoretical worst car on the grid, there you have Alex Albon doing a run in the last Canadian Grand Prix. And, by the way, being nominated as driver of the day.
A repeating pattern
If Albon's classification differentials with respect to Verstappen are analyzed, it is a fact that sometimes there is even less distance between the two today, when they respectively drive the best and worst car on the grid, than when they shared (theoretically) the same car at Red Bull. The same exercise can be done with Pierre Gasly, because it is also a verifiable fact that there was often less difference between him and Verstappen when he was driving the decaffeinated Red Bull that is the Alpha Tauri than when they shared a black-legged car. A specific situation with a pilot can happen, but two starts to be suspicious.
If Checo, Albon or Gasly were a second slower than Verstappen with the same car, there would have to be a greater distance when they drive worse cars than Red Bull. And not only is this not the case, but it is often the other way around. Where is the explanation for the poor performance of a pilot as soon as he is placed on the other side of Verstappen's garage? It's obvious that Supermax is pure kryptonite to any driver who approaches him, but there has to be more than just an intimidation factor. Something happens in that second car so that the pilot does not shine as it should. One plausible theory is Red Bull's permanent focus on developing its cars towards Max Verstappen's very particular driving style. This configuration could become so extreme that the pilots drive a car that is simply undriveable for them. This is neither the first nor the last time that this has happened in Formula 1. There are many historical examples that show that if you give a driver shoes that are too far from your size, it is impossible for them to run as they know how.
El otro Red Bull tiene un problemón por el imperio de Verstappen (y no es culpa de Checo)
Es desconcertante el pobre rendimiento del mexicano en estas últimas tres carreras, cuando estuvo peleando de tú a tú con Max Verstappen al principio de la presente temporada
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- 3,588
I knew it. Verstappen is in reality also a midfield driver. He just have a fantastic car.
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- 11,651
- Name
- Matt
80% of GP's have been won by two teams since the end of 2009, people just old enough to sign up to this forum have NEVER seen an F1 driver as champion without having the best car on the grid.
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- 3,588
F1 is 80% car and 20% driver. More or less.
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- 13,236
The real repeating pattern is this paragraph -
That is repeated 6 times in that article. Looks like the author is getting paid by word count .
As for Perez, he should stop trying to match Max and instead go back to being the solid driver he was. He won't win any championships, but will win races/podiums vs crashing every third race weekend and looking like a complete noob.
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- 11,651
- Name
- Matt
Which is why pretty much every other proper series uses performance equalisation...
... and is better for it.
F1 is shit.
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- 13,236
Better how? Who can sandbag better and get a more favorable BoP?
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- 11,651
- Name
- Matt
Better in pretty much any conceivable way.
Yeah, sand-bagging happens, but almost by definition, it doesn't win you a championship. Teams might sand-bag during the Roar to help with a Rolex win, but they can't carry that advantage through Sebring to PLM, it gets BoP'd away... You can't sand-bag in Touring cars for much more than half a race, and in GT races you only have to look at the splits from one team to the next (in the same cars) to realise that BoP is not the defining factor.
In Bop'd series, the cream still rises to the top, you just end up with better races along the way - and, it's not like F1 is bereft of shenanigans without BoP. Instead, there's massively convoluted rules, drivers doing entire seasons in disqualified cars, season long dominance, out-lawed innovation, and - basically - shit races with the drivers championship being pretty much clear after the first few races.
F1 has its plus points, but very few of them include the racing or fan experience.
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And you are the one who gets to define what is a better "fan experience"? You are just so f#cking full of it.
Personally, I have tried following sports cars racing many times, but never could really get into beyond a season, cause you know at some level, it is fake, and not really how/where the cars stack. If I want close racing much rather watch a spec series/go kart. F1 has it's own issues, and I am hardly a fan at this point, but at least you know if a team is dominant, it is predominantly cause of the better engineering and not some favorable bop equation. And that is just my own "fan experience".
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- 11,651
- Name
- Matt
Who is dominant because of favourable BoP? Who hasn't deserved a title because of BoP?
This argument is always f#cking retarded. If BoP was fake and didn't work, Bop'd series would fail and competitors wouldn't bother. To maintain popularity F1 has had to manufacture drama on DTS, it's had to budget cap, and it's had to deploy Michael Masi. I can't pretend other motorsports don't have their problems, and BoP itself has limits... but F1, without performance equalisation, still sees contrived rules, cheating, the f#cking moronic token system, and god knows what else... even F1 knows you have to put limits on performance to remain sustainable, they're just not sensible enough to do it in an open, intuitive fashion.
Full of what, informed experience? I go to as many races as I can, I've been to hundreds of events across many disciplines and series, in several countries - I've been to F1, F1 testing, F1 demonstrations, WRC, BTCC, WTCC, Italian V8 superstars, the ROC, A1GP, GP2, f#cking SuperLeague Formula, FIA Top Fuel drag and everything below, Historics, Hill Climbs, 12-car nav rallies, The 24 heures du mans, the Nürburgring 24, the Spa 24h, Creventic 24 hour races, the Britcar 24, WEC 6h races, I've sponsored a f#cking Lotus in Lotus on Track, and an ex-Le Mans Lola, I've been to watch Truck racing, f#cking monster truck events, British Karting Championship (which happens literally 3 miles from my house), WSBK, British Superbike, the DTM, Belcar, Dutch Super Car challenge, FIA GT, GT1, GT3 races of various standing including British GT and International GT open, along with GT4 and GT2 classes, banger racing, demolition derby and even f#cking soapbox races... and there's been countless support sueries along the way... I've been offered media credentials at both Silverstone and Thruxton circuit, and I used to operate a website and forum for Silverstone Circuit, which came with free access to countless other events and BRDC passes on multiple occasions... I drink with people that build F1 cars, I work with people that worked for F1 teams, and I f#cking make stuff that you will (hopefully not) see on at least three teams car's at an F1 race...
... and the very simple conclusion I currently hold, given all that experience, is that F1 GP's are shit. You may disagree based on your experience.
Of course other peoples opinions will vary, and I welcome, I encourage, and would love to see people talk more about their experiences at motor racing events - perhaps you could share yours? But objectively with F1, you pay the most, and you experience the least*... The race ticket experience is poor, like, objectively, it's bad when compared to pretty much any other motorsport event, f#ck, it's even bad compared to the old public test days.
* Okay, actually WRC was pretty bad in this respect, though with experience and local knowledge you can get a lot more out of it, and make it free.
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- Name
- Jonathan
FWIW, I too think F1 GPs suck. I’ve been to a few F1 races. Had VIP credentials for each. My last two races my pass said “guest P. Ferrari” so I could pretty much go and do whatever I want. Still sucked. If you aren’t a celebrity or very plugged in forget the VIP stuff. Total waste. And the races are boring.
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Lol, so let me get this straight, your logic is - BoP series is not fake cause otherwise it would have failed and competitor's wouldn't bother? Really, that is your non retarded counter argument? So using your amazing logic - WWF/E is not fake, cause it hasn't failed, and has competitors! Do you even think before posting crap?
Let us look at your other idiotic points -
DTS, DTS is a recent thing in F1 and purely accidental. And even if it was some master plan, it doesn't tilt the playing field i anyway. So why even bring it up?
Massi, really? How the f#ck does that justify bop. Yes, F1 has horrible stewarding. So do other racing series. That has nothing to do with BoP vs not BoP. So again, why bring it up?
Budget cap? if anything helps level playing field without officials directly putting your finger on the performance scale, so I don't know why you would hold it against F1 in this argument.
I could go on, but it is just seems a waste of my time.
The f#cking scatter shot nature and the sheer idoticity of your arguments makes me think you are just hurling random crap because you are still butt hurt because your beloved BMW left F1 without much success. It is hilarious how your idiotic love for a brand, colors your every thought process, experience and interaction. I have said it before in jest, will say it again in more seriousness - you need serious professional counseling to help with your obsession.
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