458 EVO - 458 full performance test

[Karabiner98k]

Gear ratios:

Turbo S:
I)3.91:1, II)2.29:1, III)1.58:1, IV)1.18:1, V)0.94:1, VI)0.79:1, VII)0.62:1 Final: 3.44:1

458 Italia:
I)3.08:1, II)2.19:1, III)1.63:1, IV)1.29:1, V)1.03:1, VI)0.84:1, VII)0.69:1 Final: 5.14:1

Tires of Turbo S:
Rear: 305/30 R19
Front: 235/35 R19

Tires of 458:
Rear: 295/35 ZR20
Front: 235/35 ZR20

A simple calculation shows how much more torque Italia delivers to the wheels in fifth gear than the Turbo S:

Turbo S: 0.94 X 3.44 X 700 = 2263 nm at the wheels
Italia: 1.03 X 5.14 X 540 = 2858 nm at the wheels

I don't have the exact torque curves of Turbo S and Italia but i know Turbo S has flatter torque curve in low revs due to turbos but the problem is that at low revs it suffers from a little turbo lag and i think that's why Italia has better in-gear times all through the rev range.

 

[martinbo]

^ Thanks man, let's see how the numbers pan out. I'm going to disregard rolling diameter of the wheels. You can't expect me to write a thesis now?

 

[Karabiner98k]

^ Thanks man, let's see how the numbers pan out. I'm going to disregard rolling diameter of the wheels. You can't expect me to write a thesis now?

According to my calculations, Italia has longer wheels but here it is the gear ratios that do the job for Italia and the shorter wheels of Turbo S don't help it a lot to overcome the taller gearing. Therefore, you can forget about the wheels.

 

[FC123]

Rear wheel of 458 = 714.5mm
Rear wheel of 911 = 665.6mm almost 666

 

[martinbo]

Here's wheel torque differences between the 458 Italia and the 911 Turbo S.

Notice how little torque the 458 makes at 2000 rpm... only 250 Nm! Compared to the Porsche that's making 700Nm at 2100 rpm it's clear that at such low rpm the Ferrari will not accelerate as quickly as the Turbo S. This comes as no surprise - even when you factor in the big final drive ratio.

But then look at the massive numbers the Ferrari makes midway in the rev range and, using the data sheet below, check out how the engine just goes ballistic from 2000rpm as it runs toward 4000 rpm where it makes a collosal (for a 4.5 litre NA engine) 500 Nm. It peaks with another 40 Nm 2000 rpm later and it's still got another 3000 rpm to go! As this point it's really into the meat of its power curve; multiply even mediocre torque figures by this amount of rpm and you're always going to get serious urge.



Now, I'd love for DeDe, K98 or Emve to post a similar datasheet for the Turbo S. I can't find one in this forum.

An important thing to note is how the very short gearing of the 458 ensures that even at 80 km/h in 3rd gear the engine is well into its torque curve, revving at around 5200 rpm. At 80 km/h in 4th the engine is revving at 4000 rpm which is already yielding that big 500 Nm figure.

So, plugging in the numbers at this point the 458's wheel torque is comfortably outstripping the Porsche's with 1822.8 Nm vs 1369.4 Nm respectively at 80 km/h in 4th gear. It's amazing what can be achieved with a high-revving engine and short gearing!

 

[Karabiner98k]

Notice how little torque the 458 makes at 2000 rpm... only 250 Nm!

But according to AMS, it makes 350 nm at 2000 rpm.
I don't know why AMS & Sport Auto have different torque curves for the same car

 

[martinbo]

But according to AMS, it makes 350 nm at 2000 rpm.
I don't know why AMS & Sport Auto have different torque curves for the same car

Hmmm, curious... anyone got the official Ferrari engine output graphs?

 

[Karabiner98k]

I didn't find the official torque curve but i found this:

Torque Curve | Ferrari 458 Italia dyno

In this graph Italia develops about 250 lb-ft @2000 RPM which is 340nm

 

[martinbo]

^ I must say, I think you're right. 350 Nm makes much more sense. It then goes a long way in explaining the 458's tractability from low rpm. If I can get some official info then I'll update the table.

For what it's worth though, the 911 Turbo S still makes higher torque (both engine and wheel) at 2000 rpm than the 458 does in any gear.

 

[Karabiner98k]

For what it's worth though, the 911 Turbo S still makes higher torque (both engine and wheel) at 2000 rpm than the 458 does in any gear.

But i think Turbo lag plays an important role here. I have seen many supercharged and turbocharged cars with so much torque low down and so much torque at the wheels at low down but still slower in tracability. For example when you compare Koenigsegg CCR and M3 E92 you will find that according to Sport Auto supertest from 80-120km/h in 6th gear M3 achieves 7.2s but Koenigsegg CCR achieves 7.9s !

Even if you calculate the torque at the wheels for both cars at 80 km/h in 6th gear you will find that Koenigsegg CCR still has more torque at the wheels than M3 at low revs and still slower. (it is interesting that Koenigsegg CCR is even 200kg lighter than M3!!)

I think that's because Turbocharged or Supercharged cars have some kind of lag at low revs (turbo lag or kompressor lag). Other than that you can't find any sensible reason to explain why M3 with 400nm did better than Koenigsegg CCR with 920nm and probably this is the case with Turbo S and Italia.

I also found that from 140-160 km/h in 6th gear Koenigsegg was 0.7 faster than M3 and that is because at this rev range Koenigsegg has no lag anymore.

 

[footie]

I know you guys hate the way I play devil's advocate but suggesting that the 458 is the all time greatest performance car might be a little bit premature and claiming it's the greatest brands is even worse. Unlike the Porsches mentioned on the post the Ferrari doesn't seem to be as spectacular on road course, it's N-ring time is still amazing, just not as amazing as theirs. One or even two models in a range can't turn the tide some to speak and if you look through the history of these tests and lap times you will see that Porsche have always been at the forefront for more than a decade.

Don't get me wrong here, I think this is an incredible machine and will probably go down in history as having the finest NA road engine ever, but alas I reckon it's limelight will be brief because I am quite confident McLaren will have something to say.

Ferrari is the name everyone associates with being the most initiative and promoting the latest/greatest technology to come out of motorsport, as a brand there is no other which gets the male juices flowing like it but they are a temperamental play thing for the rich and famous, as are all Italian sportscars.

So if you want the job done and done consistently without fail then you need to look towards the Germans.

 

[DeDe]

Now, I'd love for DeDe, K98 or Emve to post a similar datasheet for the Turbo S. I can't find one in this forum.

I think you have to wait for Sport Auto to test or "supertest" the Turbo S. Until then here is the 911 Turbo PDK's datasheet and torque-curve (sadly the curve shows only the normal torque without Overboost). Yes, it has 30 less hp than the S, but their max torque is identical @ nearly the same rev-range.

911 Turbo PDK (with Overboost): 700 Nm @ 2100-4000 rpm
911 Turbo S (permanent Overboost): 700 Nm @ 2100-4250 rpm

 

[donkeykong]

1/4 mile - 11.2 at 128.8mph

thats fasssssssst

 

[emve]

Autocar dry handling track :

1. Ferrari 458 Italia - 1:08,9
2. Ferrari 430 Scuderia - 1:09,5
3. Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS - 1:09,6
4. Porsche 997 GT2 - 1:09,7
5. Nissan GT-R - 1:10,1s
6. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 - 1:11,0
7. Mercedes SLS AMG - 1:11,1
10. Audi R8 V10 - 1:13,0


Again, very impressive considering 458 doesn´t use Corsa/Cup semi-slick tires like the others.

 

[Karabiner98k]

Autocar dry handling track :

1. Ferrari 458 Italia - 1:08,9
2. Ferrari 430 Scuderia - 1:09,5
3. Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS - 1:09,6
4. Porsche 997 GT2 - 1:09,7
5. Nissan GT-R - 1:10,1s
6. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 - 1:11,0
7. Mercedes SLS AMG - 1:11,1
10. Audi R8 V10 - 1:13,0


Again, very impressive considering 458 doesn´t use Corsa/Cup semi-slick tires like the others.

So, SLS loses against all it's rivals except R8 V10. I think these laptimes are very good for comparison because there is no British car here, so Autocar can't be biased toward any of them

 

[Mr Robert]

Autocar dry handling track :

Again, very impressive considering 458 doesn´t use Corsa/Cup semi-slick tires like the others.

I would certainly say!

 

[Tarek]

Autocar dry handling track :

1. Ferrari 458 Italia - 1:08,9
2. Ferrari 430 Scuderia - 1:09,5
3. Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS - 1:09,6
4. Porsche 997 GT2 - 1:09,7
5. Nissan GT-R - 1:10,1s
6. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 - 1:11,0
7. Mercedes SLS AMG - 1:11,1
10. Audi R8 V10 - 1:13,0


Again, very impressive considering 458 doesn´t use Corsa/Cup semi-slick tires like the others.

Did the SLS use Corsa/cup semi slicks?

 

[emve]

Did the SLS use Corsa/cup semi slicks?

No, SLS did not.

But Scuderia, 997.2 GT3 RS and 997 GT2 did. Not sure about LP560.

 

[footie]

No, SLS did not.

But Scuderia, 997.2 GT3 RS and 997 GT2 did. Not sure about LP560.

None of the below three used r-compound rubber which is apparent in their times compared to the rest. Of course with the exception of the 458 which is truly mind-blowing.

 

[emve]

Datapanel scan :