COVID-19 Coronavirus General Thread

[CrunchSlaughtered]

My wife and I are scheduled for the "booster" (3rd shot) in just less than 2 weeks time. "Wave #4" is threatening to be the most lethal of all so far. Those who have been administered first and second vaccines appear to be relatively safe as do those who have recovered after having contracted the infection (without-or with only mild symptoms should they be infected). However, the virus is reportedly taking a highly alarming toll on those who have not been (and refuse to be) vaccinated, among them many younger people. Especially Bavaria, Sachsen and Thüringen have been hit very hard and there is a critical dearth of beds in their respective clinic intensive care units. A political hot iron is the implementation of mandatory vaccinations for all. The ranks of increasingly militant, radicalized "anti-vaxxers" are large and the constitutional ramifications of mandatory vaccinations demand intense, time-consuming scrutiny.

Not exactly. 60% of the infections in the group of 60+ are of vaccinated. In this age group 87% are vaccinated, which means the protection given by the vaccine agains infection is 31 % (100%-60/87). In Bavaria about 35% of the deaths from Covid are of vaccinated. Total vaccinated there are 65%, which means a protection against death 44%.
So regardless how many people are vaccinated the virus will spread and kill people. The vaccines help a bit but they are by no means a solutuion of the problem.

 

[wagnechris]

Not exactly. 60% of the infections in the group of 60+ are of vaccinated. In this age group 87% are vaccinated, which means the protection given by the vaccine agains infection is 31 % (100%-60/87). In Bavaria about 35% of the deaths from Covid are of vaccinated. Total vaccinated there are 65%, which means a protection against death 44%.
So regardless how many people are vaccinated the virus will spread and kill people. The vaccines help a bit but they are by no means a solutuion of the problem.
View attachment 572207

No, that is not correct. It is not so easy...
If somebody has questions regarding Corona he should go to a doctor and not asking a car forum...

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

No, that is not correct. It is not so easy...
If somebody has questions regarding Corona he should go to a doctor and not asking a car forum...

Who said that it's easy? And who said not to go to a doctor? And what exactly is not correct? These are only official numbers.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

Not exactly. 60% of the infections in the group of 60+ are of vaccinated. In this age group 87% are vaccinated, which means the protection given by the vaccine agains infection is 31 % (100%-60/87). In Bavaria about 35% of the deaths from Covid are of vaccinated. Total vaccinated there are 65%, which means a protection against death 44%.
So regardless how many people are vaccinated the virus will spread and kill people. The vaccines help a bit but they are by no means a solutuion of the problem.
View attachment 572207

...and perhaps it should be noted that the vast majority those having been administered dual vaccines suffer far less critical symptoms, if any at all, should they contract the infection and are otherwise healthy. "...an den Corona-Fällen mit Symptomen" can be easily misinterpreted as it is a "broad brush" assessment. A congested nose and sore throat are "symptoms"-as is respiratory failure. But obviously, as age increases, so does the ability to combat infections due to the diminishing effectiveness of the immune system. Circumstances such as preconditional auto-immune disorders, cancer, morbid obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes will exacerbate the consequences of a COVID-19 infection.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

...and perhaps it should be noted that the vast majority those having been administered dual vaccines suffer far less critical symptoms, if any at all, should they contract the infection and are otherwise healthy. "...an den Corona-Fällen mit Symptomen" can be easily misinterpreted as it is a "broad brush" assessment. A congested nose and sore throat are "symptoms"-as is respiratory failure. But obviously, as age increases, so diminishes it the ability* to combat infections due to the diminishing effectiveness of the immune system. Circumstances such as preconditional auto-immune disorders, cancer, morbid obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes will exacerbate the consequences of a COVID-19 infection.

*Correction

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

*Correction

So, people that die and are vaccinated is because they are old and ill but the other die, because they are not vaccinated, which means that they are younger and healty.
Vaccines are not what they were promised to be. They are not effective enough, because the protection is less than 50%. Curevac stopped their vaccine, because it had 49% protection, but the rest have even less but they are earning billions and billions.

 

[klier]

Not exactly. 60% of the infections in the group of 60+ are of vaccinated. In this age group 87% are vaccinated, which means the protection given by the vaccine agains infection is 31 % (100%-60/87). In Bavaria about 35% of the deaths from Covid are of vaccinated. Total vaccinated there are 65%, which means a protection against death 44%.
So regardless how many people are vaccinated the virus will spread and kill people. The vaccines help a bit but they are by no means a solutuion of the problem.

You do realise that out of the vacciniated in the hospital, almost ALL of them have underlying issues or are highly obese?
Those f'íng anti vaxxers are ruining it for everybody, let me get that straight right here!

NL is going into lockdown again tomorrow because of them.

 

[klier]

So, people that die and are vaccinated is because they are old and ill but the other die, because they are not vaccinated, which means that they are younger and healty.
Vaccines are not what they were promised to be. They are not effective enough, because the protection is less than 50%. Curevac stopped their vaccine, because it had 49% protection, but the rest have even less but they are earning billions and billions.

LOL, what is your background in all this?

You're speading an aweful lot of very fake news indeed.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

... because the protection is less than 50%. Curevac stopped their vaccine, because it had 49% protection, but the rest have even less.

Is that right ?

From what I understand, Biontech/Pfizer is rated at some 90+%, Moderna slightly higher and AstraZeneca at some 80%. I also understand that both the WHO and FDA implement minimum protection effectiveness benchmarks that are surpassed by the two aforemented mRNAs' by quite a large margin while the V-vaccine satisfies the benchmark criteria with relative ease. Curevac, however, failed to do so and has thus been rendered unsuitable. That's the drift I've picked up anyway. The duration of the effectiveness leaves little ground for argument at this point in time, as the medical and pharmaceutical community finds itself navigating quite a bit of unchartered ground.

At the end of the day, suffice to say that I wholeheartedly support vaccines and will be getting my booster in the near future. And should it be discovered that annual or bi-annual refreshers will be necessary after all, I'll be having them administered. No amount of further intellectualization of the subject matter on an automotive forum will in the slightest manner alter my opinion. Others are "welcome" to theirs, tragically, not confined to their own peril (if it were, I really wouldn't give a f**k).

 

[Deleted member 57437]

Those f'íng anti vaxxers are ruining it for everybody

 

[Matski]

UK figures indicate a COVID death rate 32 times higher among the unvaccinated compared to those that have had their second dose more than 3 weeks prior. I don't know what that works out as, as an effectiveness % for the vaccines, but it seems obvious that if the vaccines were pulled from the market, there'd be a lot more people dying.

 

[klier]

UK figures indicate a COVID death rate 32 times higher among the unvaccinated compared to those that have had their second dose more than 3 weeks prior. I don't know what that works out as, as an effectiveness % for the vaccines, but it seems obvious that if the vaccines were pulled from the market, there'd be a lot more people dying.

Not obvious for some, they prefer dying in medieval ways.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Is that right ?

From what I understand, Biontech/Pfizer is rated at some 90+%, Moderna slightly higher and AstraZeneca at some 80%. I also understand that both the WHO and FDA implement minimum protection effectiveness benchmarks that are surpassed by the two aforemented mRNAs' by quite a large margin while the V-vaccine satisfies the benchmark criteria with relative ease. Curevac, however, failed to do so and has thus been rendered unsuitable. That's the drift I've picked up anyway. The duration of the effectiveness leaves little ground for argument at this point in time, as the medical and pharmaceutical community finds itself navigating quite a bit of unchartered ground.

At the end of the day, suffice to say that I wholeheartedly support vaccines and will be getting my booster in the near future. And should it be discovered that annual or bi-annual refreshers will be necessary after all, I'll be having them administered. No amount of further intellectualization of the subject matter on an automotive forum will in the slightest manner alter my opinion. Others are "welcome" to theirs, tragically, not confined to their own peril (if it were, I really wouldn't give a f**k).

Could you shed more light on these 90%. They are against what: 1. infection; 2. hospitalization; 3. death, in order to destroy your theory.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

You do realise that out of the vacciniated in the hospital, almost ALL of them have underlying issues or are highly obese?
Those f'íng anti vaxxers are ruining it for everybody, let me get that straight right here!

NL is going into lockdown again tomorrow because of them.

It's not bad to remove the blindfold from time to time. I'm vaccinated and would advise everybody to do it. But the lockdown is not because of the people which are not vaccinated but because the virus is too strong for the current vaccines. There are countries with far smaller percentage of vaccinated than the NL but they are not in a lockdawn.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

Could you shed more light on these 90%. They are against what: 1. infection; 2. hospitalization; 3. death, in order to destroy your theory.

An up to 90% better chance of preventing life threatening effects of infection that may lead to hospitalization, increasing deterioration of clinical condition and ultimately death COMPARED TO THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED. All a relative projection focused on people without critical preconditions.

That's my understanding. Then again, I am not a medical professional and am hardly qualified nor clever enough to be giving any sort of advice. So I'll leave it at that and not indulge in further elaboration. And should you not be an authority in this particular field, perhaps you should follow suit. Just a suggestion in order to prevent senseless discourse.

 

[bimmer6]

Not exactly. 60% of the infections in the group of 60+ are of vaccinated. In this age group 87% are vaccinated, which means the protection given by the vaccine agains infection is 31 % (100%-60/87). In Bavaria about 35% of the deaths from Covid are of vaccinated. Total vaccinated there are 65%, which means a protection against death 44%.
So regardless how many people are vaccinated the virus will spread and kill people. The vaccines help a bit but they are by no means a solutuion of the problem.
View attachment 572207

If the topic wouldn‘t be as serious as it is, your maths would actually be funny…

The data you’re providing actually shows a risk of dying from Covid three times higher for the unvaccinated. Obviously that is leaving out of account still, that the rate of vaccinations is much higher among the elderly and vulnerable than it is among young and fit people, so the actual effectiveness of the vaccine for preventing deaths is much better than that.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

If the topic wouldn‘t be as serious as it is, your maths would actually be funny…

The data you’re providing actually shows a risk of dying from Covid three times higher for the unvaccinated. Obviously that is leaving out of account still, that the rate of vaccinations is much higher among the elderly and vulnerable than it is among young and fit people, so the actual effectiveness of the vaccine for preventing deaths is much better than that.

It's not funny. The methodology is as follows (this is the official methodology for calculating the effectivity). You take the percentage of all vaccinated to the end of the evaluated period (10.10.2021-10.11.2021 in Bavaria) which is 65 %. For the same period there are 321 deaths from Covid 19 out of which 112 are of vaccinated people. This makes 35% off all Covid deaths are of vaccinated people. Then you calculate the following 100% minus the percentage of the vaccinated patients who died devided by the percentage of the vaccinated from the total population of Bavaria, which looks like this: 100%-35/65=44%.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

This makes 35% off all Covid deaths are of vaccinated people. Then you calculate the following 100% minus the percentage of the vaccinated patients who died devided by the percentage of the vaccinated from the total population of Bavaria, which looks like this: 100%-35/65=44%.

...to be considered: Age of the deceased who were administered full (2) vaccinations + possible critical preconditions of the deceased who were administered full (2) vaccinations. The ability of a vaccination to keep the recipient from grave harms' way diminishes rapidly with increasing age, especially pertaining to those 70 years of age and older with serious pre-existing medical conditions (Respiratory/circulatory illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, dementia, cancer, auto-immune complications, clinical depression, obesity, etc.). Whether COVID19 was the actual cause of death pertaining to persons over 80 years of age with serious pre-existing medical issues is another element that begs consideration.

My novice, unscientific contribution. Authoritative voices-please, by all means, do pipe in !

*One of the major elements of genuine intelligence is the ability to quickly recognize that one is not as intelligent as one may think.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

...to be considered: Age of the deceased who were administered full (2) vaccinations + possible critical preconditions of the deceased who were administered full (2) vaccinations. The ability of a vaccination to keep the recipient from grave harms' way diminishes rapidly with increasing age, especially pertaining to those 70 years of age and older with serious pre-existing medical conditions (Respiratory/circulatory illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, dementia, cancer, auto-immune complications, clinical depression, obesity, etc.). Whether COVID19 was the actual cause of death pertaining to persons over 80 years of age with serious pre-existing medical issues is another element that begs consideration.

My novice, unscientific contribution. Authoritative voices-please, by all means, do pipe in !

*One of the major elements of genuine intelligence is the ability to quickly recognize that one is not as intelligent as one may think.

Absolutely the same is aplicable to the deaths in the group of the not vaccinated, which puts the two groups in equal conditions.

 

[WBarnes]

It's not funny. The methodology is as follows (this is the official methodology for calculating the effectivity). You take the percentage of all vaccinated to the end of the evaluated period (10.10.2021-10.11.2021 in Bavaria) which is 65 %. For the same period there are 321 deaths from Covid 19 out of which 112 are of vaccinated people. This makes 35% off all Covid deaths are of vaccinated people. Then you calculate the following 100% minus the percentage of the vaccinated patients who died devided by the percentage of the vaccinated from the total population of Bavaria, which looks like this: 100%-35/65=44%.

Sure. 35/65 = 0.54

BUT...

65% of the population are vaccinated, so 35% of the population are unvaccinated, so

65/35 = 1.86

1.86/0.44 = 3.46

Hence, the unvaccinated are 246% more likely to die.

The 44 is not a percentage it's simply a ratio. If you multiply 65 and 35 by total population/100 in the above denominators you get a probability of death for the vaccinated and unvaccinated, yielding the result that the unvaccinated are 4.23x more likely to die. I.e.

112/[0.65 x Tot Pop] = 0.54/Tot Pop

209/[0.35 x Tot Pop] = 1.86/Tot Pop

[1.86/Tot Pop]/[0.44/Tot Pop] = 3.46