Clash of the titans. Whos ready???


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Tire Trailblazer
This year will mark the intro of Audi's first real competitors to BMW poroducts: the B8 A5 & A4. What do you expect??? Can the undisputed benchmark for performance and handling BMW be taken down by the four rings??? Or is it all just a pipe dream for Audi??? Watch this space....
 
New platform is definitely more capable than older ones.

But ...

New A4/5 will be significantly bigger than 3er. And that makes quite a difference in handling / steering performance. It's more difficult to make larger car as nimble as a few inches shorter car.

I'm not sure what will be done regarding the weight - yes, axle distribution will be better, but what about total weight.

Handling will be very good for FWD car, but not as good as RWD.

Steering precision will still be a bit behind BMW, but better than Audi offers today.

Quattro handling & traction will be even more improved, and more driver-friendly than RWD. xDrive will have to come with Dynamic xDrive.

Lower end 4-cylinder engines (TSI, TFSI) will be better than BMW NA ones - delivering better performance. Until BMW introduce I4 turbo engines. Bigger engines (6-cyl & above) will still be BMW's domain. But will be a close call when Audi hits with big TFSI engines.

S-Tronic will still rule in the gearbox field. Until BMW come with their DSG solution.

Audi will definitely offer more car for the money: a bit better built quality, more pleasing interior, more interior space, smoother & less complex design. But ... will it be as fun to drive as BMW cars in the same segment? I don't think so. A cup for Driving pleasure / thrill will still go to BMW. But Audi will come VERY close. And be sure BMW will not stand still.

What about MB?

I'm sure Audi is taking on MB as well: making their cars more spacious, more comfortable & prestigious.

But ... there is very hard to say which car will be THE BEST. All will be VERY GOOD. And only personal tastes & needs will be crucial when making decisions which one is the best FOR YOU.

Cars are products. The best car is the one that suits you best. Even if it is a Yugo. :usa7uh:
 
to me half of the fun is lost since no RWD is offered and thats it. Some of you might think that it has nothing to do with fun, but to me it is.
Duetsch, you seem to appreciate Audi more lately.
 
New platform is definitely more capable than older ones.

But ...

New A4/5 will be significantly bigger than 3er. And that makes quite a difference in handling / steering performance. It's more difficult to make larger car as nimble as a few inches shorter car.

I'm not sure what will be done regarding the weight - yes, axle distribution will be better, but what about total weight.

Handling will be very good for FWD car, but not as good as RWD.

Steering precision will still be a bit behind BMW, but better than Audi offers today.

Quattro handling & traction will be even more improved, and more driver-friendly than RWD. xDrive will have to come with Dynamic xDrive.

Lower end 4-cylinder engines (TSI, TFSI) will be better than BMW NA ones - delivering better performance. Until BMW introduce I4 turbo engines. Bigger engines (6-cyl & above) will still be BMW's domain. But will be a close call when Audi hits with big TFSI engines.

S-Tronic will still rule in the gearbox field. Until BMW come with their DSG solution.

Audi will definitely offer more car for the money: a bit better built quality, more pleasing interior, more interior space, smoother & less complex design. But ... will it be as fun to drive as BMW cars in the same segment? I don't think so. A cup for Driving pleasure / thrill will still go to BMW. But Audi will come VERY close. And be sure BMW will not stand still.

What about MB?

I'm sure Audi is taking on MB as well: making their cars more spacious, more comfortable & prestigious.

But ... there is very hard to say which car will be THE BEST. All will be VERY GOOD. And only personal tastes & needs will be crucial when making decisions which one is the best FOR YOU.

Cars are products. The best car is the one that suits you best. Even if it is a Yugo. :usa7uh:

Great post, Eni! :eusa_clap I completely agree with you...:thumbup:

:t-cheers:
 
Duetsch, you seem to appreciate Audi more lately.

I do. I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the four rings, especially since we have so many educators here.:D However I will always be a BMW diehard, no matter how many sleepless nights I have over some of the idiosyncrasies that are ever so prevalent in this current generation of cars, from design to electronics. Seems through all of that, that a Bimmer will always drive like a BMW, and there's little else out there that can match the awesome balance (and packaging) of those cars.:t-cheers:
 
What Eni said in his very first post I can totally agree with. While the A5 will definitely be great (all Audi's are) when it comes to driving dynamics I still think that BMW will rule this segment. Even if the AUDI can pull of better lap times than say the 335ci (unlikely) it still won't offer the same amount of fun. And what I mean by fun is the RWD experience. There is nothing like having fun in RWD car just like there is no fun than having a Quattro (or some other AWD) system in the snow.
 
Also:

The all-new Audi A5 coupe will make its world debut at the Geneva auto show in February, a senior company source has told the U.K.'s Autocar. The A5 will be the first Audi to use the new MLP platform, which promises better weight distribution than any previous Audi.
The Audi source said the new chassis can be tuned to deliver understeer, neutral handling or oversteer at the limit. "Our research revealed that the majority of drivers prefer understeer at the limit, but the A5 chassis can also be tuned for more expert drivers," the source is quoted as saying.





So, according to this report the chassis is very capable, but the Audi customers prefer slight understeer at the limit, and will get it - in standard A5 models. :t-hands: Perhaps Audi will tune chassis to "neutral" in S5, and to "slight oversteer" in RS5 to deliver more driving fun. :t-hands:

So, the customer who will want a BMW-like Audi they'll have to buy an RS version. :t-hands:
 
Also:

The all-new Audi A5 coupe will make its world debut at the Geneva auto show in February, a senior company source has told the U.K.'s Autocar. The A5 will be the first Audi to use the new MLP platform, which promises better weight distribution than any previous Audi.
The Audi source said the new chassis can be tuned to deliver understeer, neutral handling or oversteer at the limit. "Our research revealed that the majority of drivers prefer understeer at the limit, but the A5 chassis can also be tuned for more expert drivers," the source is quoted as saying.





So, according to this report the chassis is very capable, but the Audi customers prefer slight understeer at the limit, and will get it - in standard A5 models. :t-hands: Perhaps Audi will tune chassis to "neutral" in S5, and to "slight oversteer" in RS5 to deliver more driving fun. :t-hands:

So, the customer who will want a BMW-like Audi they'll have to buy an RS version. :t-hands:

WT-F? That doesn't even make sense. Why in world would you want understeer at "the limit"? I would prefer neutral hanling. Thats just them telling you that once again the base models are going to suck in driving dynamics.
 
What Eni said in his very first post I can totally agree with. While the A5 will definitely be great (all Audi's are) when it comes to driving dynamics I still think that BMW will rule this segment. Even if the AUDI can pull of better lap times than say the 335ci (unlikely) it still won't offer the same amount of fun. And what I mean by fun is the RWD experience. There is nothing like having fun in RWD car just like there is no fun than having a Quattro (or some other AWD) system in the snow.

1. And how do you know that it is unlikely?
2. Yes there is, and its a AWD car with RWD capabilities.

Thats just them telling you that once again the base models are going to suck in driving dynamics.

No, not necessarily. The base models will most likely be FWD. You can have tons of fun in FWD cars, infact some of the worlds most famous cars for being fun to drive are FWD, and FWD historically always understeers at the limit.
 
WT-F? That doesn't even make sense. Why in world would you want understeer at "the limit"? I would prefer neutral hanling. Thats just them telling you that once again the base models are going to suck in driving dynamics.
just a small reminder: It is a very very small majority who actually take these cars on the track and have "fun" with them, and for that small majority there are the likes of RS, S, M, and AMG. It is easy to sit here on the computer as car fanatics and criticize lap times and handeling but the majority of these cars are sold to city dwelling folk who could honestly care less about how "fun" there car is on the track or how much understeer it has.
 
And I pray to God that Audi will never ever make the mistake of going RWD....NEVER!

mistake..
then you must belive that brands like
ferrari,lambo,pagani,bmw,mercedes and so on are misstaken??

now maybe you ask me if i belive all the brand that har FWD are misstaken..
answer is no..beacuse they often make cars for transportation of ppl or things.. not fun or high end cars..
those who do (audi) and still keep FWD.. are imo very very misstaken..

i would never in my life concider a audi without quattro
 
I would buy a audi in my life that was FWD, and it would be the new TT.

yep until they dont go RWD they cant touch BMW

Not true, are you telling me that the R34 GTR couldnt touch the E46 M3 or even beat it alot of the time?

just a small reminder: It is a very very small majority who actually take these cars on the track and have "fun" with them, and for that small majority there are the likes of RS, S, M, and AMG. It is easy to sit here on the computer as car fanatics and criticize lap times and handeling but the majority of these cars are sold to city dwelling folk who could honestly care less about how "fun" there car is on the track or how much understeer it has.

Well said, people are putting a bit too much emphasis on "needing" RWD due to enthusiast car magazines.
 
mistake..
then you must belive that brands like
ferrari,lambo,pagani,bmw,mercedes and so on are misstaken??

now maybe you ask me if i belive all the brand that har FWD are misstaken..
answer is no..beacuse they often make cars for transportation of ppl or things.. not fun or high end cars..
those who do (audi) and still keep FWD.. are imo very very misstaken..

i would never in my life concider a audi without quattro


I have to disagree with what you last said there, for the average person there is nothing wrong with FWD, and there is nothing wrong with a FWD audi, hell theres less weight. I believe Yannis has a FWD audi, do you think he is bothered by it, he doesn't have snow, and I dont believe he takes it to the track so who cares if it is FWD. My old Audi was FWD and I never had a problem with it, I never took it to the track, and even in the snow it was better than any RWD car would have been.
 
^now you missunderstood me..
the question was about handling and sportyness..
now i know that FWD isnt bad for normall cars.. maybe its even better..
but im talking about fun factor.. cause i havent driven a FWD car thats as fun as RWD cars.. heck even the all mighty quattro RS4 wasent as thrilling as the 335i..

so i rather be pushed than pulled im afraid
 

Audi

Audi AG is a German automotive manufacturer of luxury vehicles headquartered in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, Germany. A subsidiary of the Volkswagen Group, the company’s origins date back to the early 20th century and the initial enterprises (Horch and the Audiwerke) founded by engineer August Horch (1868–1951). Two other manufacturers (DKW and Wanderer) also contributed to the foundation of Auto Union in 1932. The modern Audi era began in the 1960s, when Volkswagen acquired Auto Union from Daimler-Benz, and merged it with NSU Motorenwerke in 1969.
Official website: Audi (Global), Audi (USA)

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