Poll BMW M4 vs. Mercedes C 63 AMG S Coupe

[Monster]

Less weight is a great thing for a sports car. But for a luxury car... 200-300-400 kg of additional weight = more safety. Simple physics.

Hummm F=M*A, so the higher the weight the higher the force of impact, you will probably be safer if you are in a heavier car hitting a lighter car, but if you are in a heavy car hitting a stationary object, the force of the impact will be greater.

 

[Padi]

No contest, M4.

Still can't understand how people can call the M4 too complicated and busy, while calling the C63 simplistic and beautiful. In my eyes it's exactly the other way round.

I try hard to like MB, but I just can't swallow their curvy, random lines, overdesigned exteriors and gaudy interiors in their current lineup.

 

[Zafiro]

Oh I see. The reason why C63 is heavier is because they wanted it to be a safer car than the M4

 

[Zafiro]

Although I said earlier that I prefer side profile of C63 better doesn't mean M4 has bad side profile. Looks good, doesnt it?

 

[klier]

I think it would be hard to find a comment as negative as this one about the C63 on the Internet. A bit awkward around the edges, yes, but the worst in the whole MB lineup??

Worst of the real Benzes, for sure. The W205 sedan is beautiful, the coupe is a disaster in looks to me. Can't help it, just huge dislike all around.

 

[Rolf]

2017 Mercedes-AMG C 63 S Coupe nearly as heavy as the new BMW 7 Series

The weight savings are so impressive that they put the high-end luxury sedan at the same weight levels as the new 2017 Mercedes-AMG C63 S. According to the official info, the C63 S Coupe, without 75 kg for driver and luggage (DIN standard), weighs 1725 kg, exactly 228 kilos more than the M4 with manual transmission. The 740i weighs in at 1725 kg while the 750i tips the scale at 1820 kg.

Official weight figures from both Mercedes and BMW german websites (includes 68kg driver and 7kg luggage):

Lets compare apples with apples for both 7 series and Merc AMG models.

BMW 740i (six cylinder RWD) - 1800kg
BMW 750i (V8 RWD) - 1895kg
Mercedes C450 AMG (six cylinder AWD) - 1690kg
Mercedes AMG C63 S (saloon V8 RWD) - 1730kg
BMW M3 DCT RWD - 1635kg
BMW M4 DCT RWD - 1612kg

At the moment there is no official weight figures for the C Coupe models but they will probably weigh the same as the equivalent saloon models.

So the above mentioned weight difference of 228kg is rubbish as the difference with AMG C63 S and M4 is 118kg and C63 S is 70kg lighter than the 740i and 165kg lighter than the V8 powered 750i.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Suppose the coupe will be a bit heavier than the sedan. The coupe forms the basis of the yet to come C cabriolet and therefore will have a bit more strong steel = more kilo's in it's body.

 

[MercFan]

More weight does nothing for and doesn't have any relation to safety.

M

WOW. Was expecting something better than that.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies

"The Honda Fit, Smart Fortwo, and Toyota Yaris are good performers in the Institute's frontal offset barrier test, but all three are poor performers in the frontal collisions with midsize cars. These results reflect the laws of the physical universe, specifically principles related to force and distance."

As i said - simple physics.

 

[MercFan]

Hummm F=M*A, so the higher the weight the higher the force of impact, you will probably be safer if you are in a heavier car hitting a lighter car, but if you are in a heavy car hitting a stationary object, the force of the impact will be greater.

A car hitting stationary object = standart EURO NCAP crash test. All the cars nowadays get 5 star rating = all the cars are equally safe, when hitting stationary object or the car with the same weight, but more safe when hitting a lighter car.

 

[Sunny]

Weight does't automatically imply safety. If I take a Yaris and put 1000lbs of dumbbells in the trunk, it doesn't magically become safer because it has higher weight. Cars are not solid rigid bodies. Conservation of momentum applies when 2 rigid bodies collide. If @Giannis is around he can probably educate us more on finite element analysis that would be required when 2 non-rigid bodies collide.

Going back to weight, yes, if the weight is used to make the structure stronger, sure it will be safer. But if a car is heavier because it's engine or transmission is heavier, it is not going to be any safer. Also if structure is made of a material with higher specific strength, it can be both lighter and safer, case in point carbon fibre.

 

[MercFan]

And the last.
750Li xdrive - 1990 kg
A8 4.0TFSI Quattro lang - 2050 kg
S500 lang 4 matik - 2070 kg

All cars: long, V8 Biturbo with almost the same displacement, AWD. 60 and 80 kg difference. I don't see any revolution in weight saving here. Sorry.

P.S. Did not know till now that the difference is so small.

 

[MercFan]

Weight does't automatically imply safety. If I take a Yaris and put 1000lbs of dumbbells in the trunk, it doesn't magically become safer because it has higher weight. Cars are not solid rigid bodies. Conservation if momentum applies when 2 rigid bodies collide. If @Giannis is around he can probably educate us more on finite element analysis that would be required.

Going back to weight, yes, if the weight is used to make the structure stronger, sure it will be safer. But if a car is heavier because it's engine or transmission is heavier, it is not going to be any safer. Also if structure is made of a material with higher specific strength, it can be both lighter and safer, case in point carbon fibre.

So if the cars are equally safe in standart EURO crash test, the car with more weight is more safe if they collide with each other.

 

[Sunny]

^No, not necessarily. Is a C300 4matic safer than C300 rwd if they collied with each other though it weighs ~200lbs more? The extra weight of the 4matic is cause of the AWD driveline, not a stronger crash structure.

 

[klier]

So the above mentioned weight difference of 228kg is rubbish as the difference with AMG C63 S and M4 is 118kg

....which is still a massive difference.

 

[Monster]

WOW. Was expecting something better than that.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies

"The Honda Fit, Smart Fortwo, and Toyota Yaris are good performers in the Institute's frontal offset barrier test, but all three are poor performers in the frontal collisions with midsize cars. These results reflect the laws of the physical universe, specifically principles related to force and distance."
As i said - simple physics.

It will be more informative if the rest of the article were included in the quote,

Although the physics of frontal car crashes usually are described in terms of what happens to the vehicles, injuries depend on the forces that act on the occupants, and these forces are affected by two key physical factors. One is the weight of a crashing vehicle, which determines how much its velocity will change during impact. The greater the change, the greater the forces on the people inside and the higher the injury risk.

Meaning the higher the weight, the higher the forces on the people inside and higher the risk of getting injured.

So we go back to the law of physics, F= MA.

A car hitting stationary object = standart EURO NCAP crash test. All the cars nowadays get 5 star rating = all the cars are equally safe, when hitting stationary object or the car with the same weight, but more safe when hitting a lighter car.

NCAP only tell us how the car will perform in 1 type of accident, some cars do receive a higher score than other 5 star rated vehicles, so no, not all the cars are equally safe.

 

[Merc1]

WOW. Was expecting something better than that.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies

"The Honda Fit, Smart Fortwo, and Toyota Yaris are good performers in the Institute's frontal offset barrier test, but all three are poor performers in the frontal collisions with midsize cars. These results reflect the laws of the physical universe, specifically principles related to force and distance."

As i said - simple physics.

Really, so was I because you're clearly confused on this subject. You missed the point of the article you posted. More weight alone DOES NOT EQUAL MORE SAFETY. That isn't even what the article says. Those are small cars and they could weight 4000LBS and you wouldn't be any safer. Seriously, think about it. A state of the art car can be lightweight and be just as safe. It is more of a size and construction/design factor that just sheer weight, sorry if you don't get that.

M

 

[Merc1]

Weight does't automatically imply safety. If I take a Yaris and put 1000lbs of dumbbells in the trunk, it doesn't magically become safer because it has higher weight. Cars are not solid rigid bodies. Conservation of momentum applies when 2 rigid bodies collide. If @Giannis is around he can probably educate us more on finite element analysis that would be required when 2 non-rigid bodies collide.

Going back to weight, yes, if the weight is used to make the structure stronger, sure it will be safer. But if a car is heavier because it's engine or transmission is heavier, it is not going to be any safer. Also if structure is made of a material with higher specific strength, it can be both lighter and safer, case in point carbon fibre.

Bingo! It how the car is built, not just because it weighs more.


M

 

[Merc1]

So if the cars are equally safe in standart EURO crash test, the car with more weight is more safe if they collide with each other.

Wrong. Weight doesn't = safety. Otherwise race car drivers would be killed every single time they crash. It is design, not just weight.

M

 

[marley71]

My two cents.

These are performance cars. I subscribe to the Colin Chapman ethos, you have to minimize the weight of a performance car. Mercedes did not even show up for that meeting. They get a huge demerit for this that makes all other arguments null and void.

I love the styling of the Mercedes, even after throwing a mini tantrum about the B through C pillar integration upon first seeing it. I love the front of the Mercedes, even after realizing that there is no differentiation between the coupe and the sedan. I love the interior of the Mercedes, even with that godawful display floating over the middle of the dashboard like an aftermarket hack. And the hips and fender flares on the Mercedes...don't even get me started, it's like sex on wheels.

I hate the front air-dam of the BMW, it looks like a buck toothed supermodel, and the rest of the styling is ho-hum but their commitment to making an actual sports car has me giving them the vote. I would have to go aftermarket and find something to fix the front view, it is ghastly.

The Mercedes is the more attractive car, it's gorgeous!, but it lacks the substance of the BMW. I'd know I had the better looking car if I got the Mercedes, but when a BMW M4 pulled up next to me I would know I'm a shallow person and I need to live with myself.

Hey Mercedes! Step your weight saving programs up. You can't just throw horsepower at the problem, you're not an American car company.

 

[deity]

I love the styling of the Mercedes, even after throwing a mini tantrum about the B through C pillar integration upon first seeing it. I love the front of the Mercedes, even after realizing that there is no differentiation between the coupe and the sedan.

What differentiation is there on the M3 from the M4 looking at the front?