3 Series (F30) BMW F34 3er GT: Spy Pics - Renders - Info

[EnI]

The Lexus GS ended up being the most dynamic in class.

And the Infiniti M was claimed to be better than E60 5er etc ... Perhaps. But not being best in class still doesn't make BMW cars lame.

 

[Levi68]

And the Infiniti M was claimed to be better than E60 5er etc ... Perhaps. But not being best in class still doesn't make BMW cars lame.

I am not taking claims into account nor am I saying BMW's are lame.

 

[speed_kills]

So being outhandled by the competetion and then claiming "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is akward and stupid bragging. I guess only when BMW hits rock bottom we can call them lame.

 

[EnI]

Yes, like Benz is "the best or nothing" and Audi has "advantage through technology" etc. And the burger X is the best one ... and the store Y is the cheapest one. Etc. Do you really think ad slogans are an absolute truth? Guess what, they are not. And BMW NEVER was an ultimate driving machine. Not with Porsche etc around. Nor MB is the best, nor Audi has advantage in technology etc.

Also, original BMW slogan is "Freude am Fahren" ("Sheer driving pleasure") ... And that's the core BMW value: driving pleasure. Not the one of being the best machine ever to drive. Which never was. Claims of being "best", "ultimate", "safest", "most reliable" etc are always highly pretentious & can easily backfire. I never liked the UDM slogan, and thankfully is limited to only a few markets.

But I'm sure not many people believe in this slogan as in absolute truth, not in its "ultimatieness". And many love BMW until it delivers. Even if it's not ultimately best (by what criteria anyway?).

And we have already established many times here: BMW "failed", "has become soft", "lost the plot" etc ... And still is somehow most admired automotive brand in the world. And selling more cars every year etc. People somehow love the products. How come? Loving fake promises? Or perhaps BMW cars are still great to drive, although not being best or ultimate.

Why people are buying various brands, various cars, various models ... and not only "the best" on, or the "ultimate" one? Different people, different criteria. What's best for you, it's not necessarily best for me. What's ultimate on paper, it's not necessarily ultimate to me. What's greatest for a journalist, it's not necessarily greatest fro me. etc

Things are not that simple. They are extremely complex. Therefore "not ultimate" BMW will still prosper, and that's why "not the best" MB will also record great sales results.

 

[speed_kills]

Ok. So why not remove the UDM?
I believe the softness of today will be hurt the brand in the future.

 

[klier]

The Lexus GS ended up being the most dynamic in class.

Lol, because it won in one U.S magazine? Give me a break here

 

[martinbo]

Hands up anyone here who thinks the F10 5er is anything less than sheer driving pleasure for people who are in the market for - and can afford - a mid-large luxury saloon. Yes, the F10 is a tad bigger and heavier than it possibly needs to be but I bet it wouldn't make a jot of a difference to the car's sales performance.

Does the world need an F34 GT? Probably not but then again no less than it needs a Merc B-Class or Audi Allroad. So the persistent criticism of BMW on this forum for this practice is so turn-of-the-century. Blame for the profligate pursuit of niche models can't solely be laid at the door of car makers. Insatiable consumerism is as much to blame.

 

[speed_kills]

The B-Class makes more sense than a 3er GT. MPV sell good in europe.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

The B-Class makes more sense than a 3er GT. MPV sell good in europe.

And BMW's 5er GT sells well in Asian markets, but more importantly, has a higher markup than a 5er sedan/touring.

I don't think it does the BMW brand any damage, in fact I think the 5er GT enhances the 'luxury and sophistication' side of the brand, while cars such as the 3er, Z4 and anything with an ///M badge promote BMW's sporty pedigree. BMW doesn't just make sporty cars, they make premium sporty cars...and every now and then they need to promote the premium side of the equation.
Now that doesn't excuse the 5er GT's looks....visually I understand why people get indigestion when they see a photo of the car, but it has a purpose, a very limited, focused and specially-tailored purpose (hence it being a 'niche'). Just business many people can't stand the sight of it, doesn't mean it's a bad business decision.

Justin Beiber's proof of that!

 

[K-A]

The core business got a little bit corrupted on the F10. It's not as good handler as the A6, mostly because is such a fat pig.

Exactly. The F30 showed that BMW slacked off on the F10's drive. I know the F10 is directed toward a different base, but neither the F10 nor F01 are the best drivers in any regard in their class. The F10 = the best balance of all its competitors, however, it isn't the sportiest (LEXUS is known to be sportier now, for shats sake), and it still isn't the softest. In a business sense that may just be the best move (a little for everybody, not too much for anybody), but I think it shows a shift toward a less hardcore/precise practice from BMW. Then again, the F30 showed otherwise, so it'll be interesting to see how the future Sedans come along (F10/F01 route, or F30 route, or will they become more and more split from each other).

As for the GT's, I feel they are damaging to BMW's brand because firstly their tragic looks (5 GT we know), and because it's confusing as to what their purpose is, as they haven't replaced the Touring models even. *Too niche*, perhaps. What they should do, is limit them to markets. Maybe the GT doesn't do damage to BMW as much or at all in China and/or Europe, but in the U.S it's become a pun for failure and ugly. And it doesn't help BMW's position as a premium sought-after brand to have some fat cow with dust all over it sitting in a showroom unloved and avoided to be made eye contact with.

 

[Levi68]

Hands up anyone here who thinks the F10 5er is anything less than sheer driving pleasure for people who are in the market for - and can afford - a mid-large luxury saloon. Yes, the F10 is a tad bigger and heavier than it possibly needs to be but I bet it wouldn't make a jot of a difference to the car's sales performance.

Does the world need an F34 GT? Probably not but then again no less than it needs a Merc B-Class or Audi Allroad. So the persistent criticism of BMW on this forum for this practice is so turn-of-the-century. Blame for the profligate pursuit of niche models can't solely be laid at the door of car makers. Insatiable consumerism is as much to blame.

You are refering to me, not ture? By no means I say BMW is no more at the top, but ignoring the progress of the competion is not wise either. I won't bring up any comparision or example.
And you are not right by saying I only criticize BMW with their 5 GT, 3 GT, 1 CST, just read my other posts where I equally criticize the A2, the B Class and many other types of vehicles that are not conform to my way of thinking. Because everybody is free, I do not impose anything. The reason I criticize such cars is because those that please me are very few. I guess I am in the minority, and I can only talk with my wallet. At the end of the discussion I am told to by a Lotus.

PS: I have accepted FI at M, 1M and M5 proved themselves, nonetheless NA is my thing and it might not change. And it does not go for BMW only, but for any other. I am not a BMW hater, I am just no more a BMW fanboy.

 

[speed_kills]

The F10 would be much better if it the weight of the A6. But BMW is oblivious to aluminium. I wonder how Jaguar can make aluminium sedans but not BMW.

 

[Levi68]

The F10 would be much better if it the weight of the A6. But BMW is oblivious to aluminium. I wonder how Jaguar can make aluminium sedans but not BMW.

This doesn't bother me, the 7 Series, 6 Series and 5 Series are good cars, and BMW will skip aluminium and go at once to carbon fiber reinforced plastic, so the better. Already the M3 F80 is promissing astonishing weight savings from what I heard, less than M3 E46. That is the surprise, not the V6 as it finally is an I6.

 

[speed_kills]

This doesn't bother me, the 7 Series, 6 Series and 5 Series are good cars, and BMW will skip aluminium and go at once to carbon fiber reinforced plastic, so the better. Already the M3 F80 is promissing astonishing weight savings from what I heard, less than M3 E46. That is the surprise, not the V6 as it finally is an I6.

Will skip aluminium and go CFRP? Get real. Only thing CFRP woul probably be the doors/hood/trunk and seats. The frame will still be metal and needs to be aluminium. A company as large as BMW needs to embrace alumunium, it's a technical advantage Audi has. Shows poor commitment.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

As for the GT's, I feel they are damaging to BMW's brand because firstly their tragic looks (5 GT we know), and because it's confusing as to what their purpose is, as they haven't replaced the Touring models even. *Too niche*, perhaps.

You know the saying "If you have to ask how much?, You can't afford it." ? ... I think with the 5er GT, it's a case of, 'If you don't get its purpose, you're not meant for it'.

Yeah sure it's not a sales success in the US market, but then again neither was the very conventional, easy on the eyes, obviously purposeful, highly versatile, already established 5er wagon ... or any wagon from any manufacturer for that matter.

Exactly. The F30 showed that BMW slacked off on the F10's drive. I know the F10 is directed toward a different base, but neither the F10 nor F01 are the best drivers in any regard in their class. The F10 = the best balance of all its competitors, however, it isn't the sportiest (LEXUS is known to be sportier now, for shats sake), and it still isn't the softest. In a business sense that may just be the best move (a little for everybody, not too much for anybody), but I think it shows a shift toward a less hardcore/precise practice from BMW. Then again, the F30 showed otherwise, so it'll be interesting to see how the future Sedans come along (F10/F01 route, or F30 route, or will they become more and more split from each other).

You are exactly the reason why the 5er has become softer. You chose an E-class. MB is well known for their soft, comfortable, smooth riding cars. ...but you didn't want to be overly boring, so you opted for the Sports Package. Now suddenly the E-class is a nice blend of comfort and sportiness, just like the F10 5er.

Also, I think the new 5er was a tad over-engineered because BMW got stung after the E60 5er received only a 4-star safety rating from NCAP.

 

[klier]

The F10 would be much better if it the weight of the A6. But BMW is oblivious to aluminium. I wonder how Jaguar can make aluminium sedans but not BMW.

TATATATATATATA steel.
They probably make more alu than all carmakers use, combined

Seriously though, I don't know how Jaguar can make it's cars from alu without pricing itself out of the market. They did it already before Tata owned them...

I think with the 5er GT, it's a case of, 'If you don't get its purpose, you're not meant for it'.

I think it's a case of 'If you are 24/7 on a German car forum, and still don't get the purpose of the 5er GT, you're....'

 

[klier]

Double post, sorry!

 

[K-A]

You are exactly the reason why the 5er has become softer. You chose an E-class. MB is well known for their soft, comfortable, smooth riding cars. ...but you didn't want to be overly boring, so you opted for the Sports Package. Now suddenly the E-class is a nice blend of comfort and sportiness, just like the F10 5er.

Also, I think the new 5er was a tad over-engineered because BMW got stung after the E60 5er received only a 4-star safety rating from NCAP.

True, but BMW were doing so well by sticking to their guns, that even the not easy on the eyes E60 was overtaking the E-Class in sales in the U.S, now, the U.S has responded to the F10 by reversing roles while the new E-Class overtakes the new 5er in Sales (yes I know we can't distinguish how many Coupe's or 5 GT's are in there, but the E's lead in some months has been significant enough to show that regardless, M-B took some market share back in this segment.... in the U.S) especially in the F10's debut year showing strong momentum for the new E. I feel that in the States, people really equate BMW with "precise handling machines", hence all the dingbats swerving around on the freeways acting like they're on "The Ring".

That's a good point about how BMW seemed to cram as much steel into the F10 to ensure good safety ratings after the red-flag from the IIHS regarding the E60.... but compared to M-B and Audi, BMW seemed to use less advanced/lightweight materials to get similar and in some cases lesser results (roof strength).

The F10 IS a car I'd buy, for the record, the E60 was NOT. However, I shouldn't be the target market for BMW, as they were doing so well before I even considered one (the F10 is a stronger proposition to me VS the W212 than the E60 was over the W211, so job well done, BMW, but in my ultimate quest for those "Benz like qualities", I opted for the Benz)

 

[klier]

Relax, relax. The F10 drives dynamic enough, the F10 M5 is a true monster, and next gen the 5er can be nothing else but lighter than it is today.... All is well

 

[K-A]

I'm looking forward to taking a 535i M-Pack through the paces again to see how I feel about it and its "dynamics" nowadays. Would have already done it but going to the EU again next week, so those plans must be put on hold.