BMW considering a 2nd facelift for their cars

[Mr. Mercedes]

Marketing realities make this direction inevitable.

Mercedes and Audi WILL follow suite.

 

[Sunny]

Marketing realities make this direction inevitable.

Mercedes and Audi WILL follow suite.

Yup, IMO, the car market is going to become more and more like the consumer electronic market where you constantly need to update your product to survive. And even bring new niche products quickly to the market and keep innovating. The times when you could come out with a design every decade and sit on your ass for the rest of the decade is over.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Could be. Natural adaptation to a market situation. Offering "new products" or "special offers" exactly at time when people get money, or when their contracts expire. Clever.

Bingo, Eni's got it absolutely spot on!!

Looking at BMW, MB and Audi, they never release competing models at the same time, so what BMW's been noticing is when people's lease expires, they'd rather get the new MB or Audi that just came on the market than get another 'older' BMW.

As for Raoul's argument that genuine owners (not people who lease) will be left feeling a bit frustrated that the BMW they bought will be updated within 3 years.... well yes it might upset them, but certainly not to the point where they are going to throw their arms in the air and swear to never buy a BMW again. They will either try to 'keep up with the Jones'' and upgrade to the facelift, or they'll just hold out and buy the 2nd facelift -- and if not that, then by the time the actual new model comes out, they'll definately feel their car is in need of replacing since it's already 2-facelifts and 1-generation old.

BMW know these customers can't stay unhappy for too long.

BTW, Raoul, you made a very good point of how having 2 facelifts doubles the level of publicity generated for the model during its life-cycle.

 

[coolraoul]

I think this decision could make sense from a pure economical point of view.

But I would be very disappointed from BMW and would loose a lot of respect for them if they do that. Even if I am not a BMW fan, I have a lot of respect for them.

Comparing a BMW to a DVD player, well... Disappointing.

I always had the feeling that BMW was one of the few companies in the world that was diriged by impassioned engineers. If they do that, I would know it is not the case...

Even if I know BMW just doesn't care of my opinion...

 

[Yperion]

Could be. Natural adaptation to a market situation. Offering "new products" or "special offers" exactly at time when people get money, or when their contracts expire. Clever.

I 'm not sure if that is clever. When you buy a luxury car (cause some people actully buy them and not lease them) you also think about resale. So facelifting a car means that the pre-fl's price drops so some buyers may not like this decision at all.

I know some people who buy Mercedes only cause they don't facelift their models significantly and case they have good resale value.

Cars are not PC monitors when you can buy one every year you know.

 

[coolraoul]

^ Second that.

A car is not like a new phone, it is a vey expensive, and most people want to keep a car 4-5 years.
You pay a BMW more than a Korean, and it immediately is the old-looking because it changes every two years? No, no.

I don't think a BMW NEEDS a face-lift every 2 years. It differentiate the Germans from the Koreans, the Koreans need to change often to keep competitive, whereas the Germans no.

If it is not needed, it is a pure marketing-decision. Good for BM, not for the client. It is not what you can expect from BMW.

I hate the idea. Again, you can't compare a BMW with a DVD-player!!!

 

[EnI]

I think this decision could make sense from a pure economical point of view.

But I would be very disappointed from BMW and would loose a lot of respect for them if they do that. Even if I am not a BMW fan, I have a lot of respect for them.

Comparing a BMW to a DVD player, well... Disappointing.

I always had the feeling that BMW was one of the few companies in the world that was diriged by impassioned engineers. If they do that, I would know it is not the case...

Even if I know BMW just doesn't care of my opinion...

Raoul,

romantic times in automotive industry are over. Unfortunately. Even in the premium segments. Companies are doing blasphemous things to survive. Competition is stiff & cruel. Times are different than eg 20 years or more ago. No company can afford position where engineers would lead the company policy. Today marketing & financial departments are making major decisions.

This is a fact. Nobody is immune.

Eg. Porsche: they were forced to offer an SUV. A Porsche SUV???? A blasphemy! Which shared a platform & engine with VW! Porsche featuring VW parts? Same thing with eg. Bentley. Or Rolls-Royce - with BMW parts. Or Lambo with Audi solutions.

Smart companies have to be able to adopt to changing market situations. Otherwise they are sentenced to death. They just can't afford to be romantic anymore. No company. Not even BMW.

Also: companies have to be very innovative in marketing innovations (not so in promotion, but more in basic marketing activities).

You should be aware the automotive industry from China & even India is a huge threat. Therefore current economy brands from Europe, USA, Korea & Japan are all moving up-market. Therefore premium brands like Porsche, BMW, MB, Audi, Jaguar, Range-Rover, Audi etc have to react & be even more innovative than the up-market-moving economy brands.

Business is business. Cruel, raw business. Not much space for emotions & romantic actions there.

And be sure marketing dept. will spin the situation via promotion, advertising & PR, so customers won't be hurt, and will "buy" the story company will be offering to them.

Also: today a technological progress is very fast. 3.5 years is a lot of time - especially when it comes to electronics. And - as you know - cars depend on electronics very much these days. So, more frequent updates are necessary also from engineering point of view.

We will either see the following trends in the future in automotive industry:

a) shorter lifecycles with one minor facelift (incl. tech update)
b) one significant facelift + several technological updates during the lifecycle
c) several minor facelifts (incl. technological updates)

So, the companies will pick the method that fits the product best.

 

[coolraoul]

Concerning the leasing, well... Your perception of a brand does not change if you lease your car instead of buying it.

And if a car changes only one time, it is an event, ,people are interested, wow look it is the new one... A new BM is an event, it is intersting, people are curious to see (but can't see because it changes not much)...
The german facelifts are more technical improvement, with minor look changes. There is an impression that the car is so good that it does not need to change... It reassures the client about the quality of the product.

If every BM changes every 2 years, there always will be a new BMW, so it won't be interesting or even new. Oh, look, again a new BMW, changes every 5 minutes...

It is not good for the brand image.

 

[coolraoul]

I fully agree that my perception of a car is nearly romantic. That's why I dream of C126, W124 and other old Merc build with love to detail, to last several million kms without any piece to change.

But BMW, Mercedes already applies your (b) solution, one facelift but upgrades, mainly of motor or new options, during the lifecycle. That kind of invisible improvement is perfect: client happy with up-to-date car, owner of the car does not see the changes so happy, car seems the same in the road so image unharmed: the car does not need to change.

Marketing guys sometimes make big mistakes...

This decision will hurt BMW's image imho, and it will hurt my perception of BMW philosophy. It would deceive me, a lot.

 

[EnI]

I
But BMW, Mercedes already applies your (b) solution, one facelift but upgrades, mainly of motor or new options, during the lifecycle. That kind of invisible improvement is perfect: client happy with up-to-date car, owner of the car does not see the changes so happy, car seems the same in the road so image unharmed: the car does not need to change.

Marketing guys sometimes make big mistakes...

This decision will hurt BMW's image imho, and it will hurt my perception of BMW philosophy. It would deceive me, a lot.

Let's wait & see what will happen. We do not know yet:

a) how drastic will the facelifts be
b) when exactly in the lifecycle will they occure
c) will this new policy be applied to all, or just to particular models
etc

Perhaps some models will get only one minor facelift. While some will get one major one. Maybe some will get 2 minor facelifts, some one minor + one major. It is possible some models will get facelift earlier then others. etc Many unanswered questions!

But be sure BMW will be very flexible & will try to find the best solution for every particular model.

I'm sure this policy change won't hurt BMW image at all. BMW are doing that to satisfy customers even better, not to screw_ them.

Yet it's inevitable there will still some small groups of endless romantics with hurt feelings exist out there, and bitch about changed policy.

 

[coolraoul]

This is not changes that bothers me, don't think I am a old-fashioned traditionalist.

It is that kind of changes that only are made in the interst of the company. This kind of policy have no interest for the consumer.

I would not be happy if my car is restyled so soon, and makes mine "the old xxxx", that's all.

All these great marketing words, all these "keep up-to-date", "progress and improvement", only "to propose the best possible product to our consumer" that will justify this move... Only to mask the reality: BMW wants you to feel your car old ant to make you change for the new model, or wants to keep the attention on his car by a rather unjustified way.

I am sorry. If I buy a car, I don't want it to change just after.

And if BMW does it because some peaople lease their car instead of buying them, well.. Too bad if you buy, right? Because BMW earns more money with the leasing, because you paid your car much more by this way.

The only reason BMW wants to do that is to f**** the clients.

 

[Giannis]

I'm sure they can afford that since most BMW cars are leased to the new owners.

do you know what is the percentage of the total BMW annual sales that are leased?

 

[EnI]

do you know what is the percentage of the total BMW annual sales that are leased?

It depends on markets & models.

In developed markets leasing deals quite exceed other financial deals (cash, loans etc).

Also more expensive models are more "prone" to leasing as well.

Yet I do not posses detailed numbers. Sorry.

I would not be happy if my car is restyled so soon, and makes mine "the old xxxx", that's all.

All these great marketing words, all these "keep up-to-date", "progress and improvement", only "to propose the best possible product to our consumer" that will justify this move... Only to mask the reality: BMW wants you to feel your car old ant to make you change for the new model, or wants to keep the attention on his car by a rather unjustified way.

I am sorry. If I buy a car, I don't want it to change just after.

And if BMW does it because some peaople lease their car instead of buying them, well.. Too bad if you buy, right? Because BMW earns more money with the leasing, because you paid your car much more by this way.

The only reason BMW wants to do that is to f**** the clients.

Like I said:

fluctuation of cars is much more frequent than ever before. People are owning cars for much less time period then in the past. Reason? Leasing.
That's even more evident in premium segments. And the needs of these people will now be addressed.

I doubt there is many people out there who buy BMW or MB like they did it before: for cash, and for 10 years at least. Much more customers change their cars much more frequently.

BMW are just adopting to the market situation.

And, yes: updated models will also create a need to go after fresher model - sales will increase. Leasing will be even more promoted - since that's also in BMW's interest (higher total price, constant cash flow, keeping residual value high). A vicious circle.

Yes, there will be a group of customers that will be affected. Long-term owners. But I guess they are in such minority now they became even less important for BMW business. Bad for them. They seem to be a collateral damage of changing market situations.

Solution? Leasing. Lease for 2 or 3 years, and then pick an updated model.

 

[Bruce]

I fully agree that my perception of a car is nearly romantic. That's why I dream of C126, W124 and other old Merc build with love to detail, to last several million kms without any piece to change.

Raoul, you make many good points (and many which I agree with), but I particulary the paragraph that you wrote above. I too, am what you could call a romantic when it comes to automobiles. I so highly admire the good 'ol days when companies didn't have to release a new model every autoshow.

That's one of things I greatly appreciated about the first generation of Lexus automobiles; they were tuff, built to last - you expected owners to hold on to them for extended periods of time. Same goes for the old Mercedes, the old BMW, the old "you name it"..

And as you said, it is sad when automobiles have a life-cycle expectancy similar to that of an electronic device - be it a phone, or a stereo. This is one of the many things about the "new" automotive world that really bugs me. Everything is disposable.

 

[coolraoul]

I don't want to lease because it is much too expensive.
And I want to keep my car, not 20 years but longer than just 2-3 years.

I think that we have a different point of view, EnI. I would say that you see it from the BMW point of view, whereas I am from the client point of view...

BTW, I won't convince you, you won't convince me...

I understand your point, but I disagree...

It is always very interesting to have such argumented debates.
You made me think further, search other arguments, understand better the reasons why BMW wanted to do that. Very constructive debate.


Thank you Bruce, now I feel a bit less alone with my strange ideas of what a car should be...

 

[EnI]

Raoul,

I completely understand you situation. You - and people with similar problem - seem to be a collateral damage of changing market situation. It's sad indeed but it seems buyers like you are in minority right now, and not so important for BMW (and many other premium carmakers) anymore.

So, when in dilemma which group of buyers to please - be sure every company would choose the bigger & more important one.

Sorry.

Bad for you, but good for 5 or 10 others.


Btw, I also enjoy the debate very much.



@Bruce:

I didn't know you are one of the "automotive dinosaurs" as well. j/k

 

[Giannis]

It is a great debate guys! Thanks!

PS. I consider myself as a car romantic as well! My favourite car is no longer on sale, as well as my second favourite. Other than that, i can't see why you should change a car every 2-3 years. Normally i would change my car at about 6 years...

 

[EnI]

It is a great debate guys! Thanks!

PS. I consider myself as a car romantic as well! My favourite car is no longer on sale, as well as my second favourite.

I advise you to turn into car futurist: being convinced your favorite car isn't even on sale yet (instead of no longer being on sale).

Other than that, i can't see why you should change a car every 2-3 years. Normally i would change my car at about 6 years...

Premium segment is different. Consumer behavior is different in that segment. Many customers find a car as an accessory , or "mobile communication statement". Symbolizing owner's status, attitude, views etc.

Also in premium segments customers are more novelty conscious - tend to get the latest tech & design. Following trends & fashion. They are the early adopters ... trend-makers. Such people are very important for the industry.

Every serious company invest a lot of money in market & trend researches (incl. consumer behavior researches, consumer lifestyle researches, etc). Be sure every move such company makes is based on the results & findings of such researches. Very rational decisions.

Tech is changing, people are changing, world is changing. Everything is changing.

We have no choice here: we have to adopt. Or we will stuck in te past with nostalgia & being bitter. Like our grandmas & grandpas.

 

[Poverty]

Seems like a logical step to me...

Im not to sure about that as it could piss off alot of the BMW faithful. This is good for people who can afford to waste money by buying a new car every 2 years or so, but for those that cant, all it will mean is that their vehicle will depreciate more, and they will be driving about in a dated car quicker.

If I was was a bmw driver I would not be happy about their plans. I dont want to buy a vehicle that will be out of date in 2 years time. I think this would more than likely make me go to a competitor. Good for the very wealthy, not so good for the rest.

 

[Giannis]

One thing that just came to my mind. With this new strategy, if your lease ends in 2-3 years and then you lease another new BMW, won't the fleet of the used BMWs increase in size sugnifically?