Hot! BMW AG: What's Next

[klier]

I reckon Fleet emissions are the problem.

I don't. BMW's average CO2 output and whatever must be dropping like crazy with the advent of EVs. They hardly have a V8 anymore, the V12 is gone, and the I6 is only for the high end models these days. The rest is small 2.0 four pots and EV/PHEV.

 

[Matski]

I think even bigger than that: it's about being aspirational as an expensive high end car brand. For kids who dream about that sexy BMW supercar and then later buy a normal BMW.

What is BMW for kids these days? Big SUVs and luxury sedans. Plenty of others in that pond.

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

 

[SCOTT27]

I don't. BMW's average CO2 output and whatever must be dropping like crazy with the advent of EVs. They hardly have a V8 anymore, the V12 is gone, and the I6 is only for the high end models these days. The rest is small 2.0 four pots and EV/PHEV.

Yes. Whilst everybody more or less has made the conscious decision to eradicate their ICE models. In Germany EV sales are down significantly. BMW have yet to commit to a phase-out date.

 

[SCOTT27]

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

For My kids growing up it was The E30 M3 and E28 and E34 M5 that glamourised their walls. My daughter admired the Z1 as a student.
They would eventually get their wish but understood the realistic attributes of automobiles and how super sports cars won’t get five friends to swimming practice. Now the grand kids lust over VW Beetles instead of Bugatti’s and McLarens.

 

[dalab]

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

The BMW "supercars" that generate that loyalty are and will always be, the M3, M4, M5, M6, X3M, 4, 5, 6, ETC, increasingly detached from any aspirant from another brand.

But it cannot be denied that the M1 caused in the last 40 years a return on "advertising investment" much greater than the enormous financial losses it caused to the brand. What's more, I think they always knew it would be like that, just like building the headquarters. "4 cylinders" just had to be done, I think and it's time to do it again and it can have the shape you want, NK 3 series, NK 4 series, supercar etc.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

E21 323i in my case.

 

[dalab]

E21 323i in my case.

The same with me, the E21 320, I don't know if you agree with me, but I would dare to say that it is the guilty of everything or 95% of everything

 

[Matski]

Just some food for thought on the CO2 discussion.

g/km CO2 of some select models with data taken from the German regulator, which are actually lower values than those BMW publish, as BMW add 10% to stated figures to account for low volumes of unusual combinations, or model bias in small markets.

530e	13-17
550e xDrive	19-23
M760e xDrive	25-31
XM Label	35-45
320e	29-40
X3 xDrive30e	45-59
116d	120-140
M340d xDrive	154-168
M135i xDrive	167-180
M240i xDrive	177-200
M2	218-226
M3CS	224-239
M8 Gran Coupe Competition	256-265
Alpina XB7	279-279
X6M Competition	288-292
Rolls-Royce Ghost	327-333

It is not hard to see why overweight hybrids are preferable to big non-assisted engines under the current regulatory framework.

 

[klier]

E21 323i in my case.

Good example. Matski would say it's not a supercar but that's the entire gist of it; BMW didn't need one up until the point when their cars started to become big heavy luxury barges devoid of much what made BMW special in the first place.....

 

[SKY]

Never got the point that a brand that advertises the joy of driving its cars does not need a supercar. Does Ferrari need a V12 coupe? Why, the V8 entry models are already great…

The people in charge of taking the great decissions within BMW have always lacked balls. This i16 surely was not super expensive. It is a deep FL of the i8, most likely with an engine that was already used or about to be used in other models.

There is always an excuse. Something that gets in the way. Yet, in the last 15 (?) years we have seen BMW turds of all sizes and price tags: 2er GC, 2er GT, 3er GT, X4, XM, CSL…

But who cares? The M3 still drives great!

 

[klier]

Yet, in the last 15 (?) years we have seen BMW turds of all sizes and price tags: 2er GC, 2er GT, 3er GT, X4, XM, CSL…

CSL a turd??? Excuse me? lol

But who cares? The M3 still drives great!

Just make a carbon monocoque, put the S58 in the back with 700 hp, give it RWD and a manual, keep the weight as low as possible (<1200 kg EU) and you instantly have a unique niche. It really is no rocket science. It doesn't have to cost more than 300k. It doesn't need to rival a Valkyrie or T50. But it has to be aspirational.

 

[dalab]

There was always talk about two "M" bespoke models, so the XM would have happened anyways.

Talking about those photos is like crying over spilled milk, but that supercar was nice
It turned out very well, the transition from concept to production is quite noticeable and with a much superior result.

It is a deep FL of the i8

Is it necessary to write something so inaccurate?

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

What else is it gonna be?

 

[klier]

What else is it gonna be?

An AWD car? An EV? A CLAR based front engined car? A new elaborate hybrid engine?
I can think of plenty of options, hence my specific dream setup.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Good example. Matski would say it's not a supercar but that's the entire gist of it; BMW didn't need one up until the point when their cars started to become big heavy luxury barges devoid of much what made BMW special in the first place.....

Exactly my point.

 

[SKY]

CSL a turd??? Excuse me? lol

A modified M4, with uglier exterior and crazy price tag? If at least it looked as good as the concept…

 

[martinbo]

A modified M4, with uglier exterior and crazy price tag? If at least it looked as good as the concept…

You've got your nomenclature causing confusion, SKY. You need to be specific; 3.0 CSL and M4 CSL.

C'mon bru up your game.

 

[martinbo]

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

A smartly put question that actually articulates the essence of the BMW brand and its appeal to customers.

I wasn't inspired by the M1 - I can't even recall seeing it when I was young - and because it was so rare, it didn't feature in the BMW lexicon of my youth.

My first memory of a BMW being inspirational and desirable was that of my father's enthusiasm for the E23 745i (an SA-only special) back in the mid-eighties. His infectious excitement made me take notice and so I started paying attention to BMWs.

It was the E30 that really did it for me - specifically the 325i in its various iterations - as it went about firmly entrenching itself in South African motoring lore.
I remember the wealthy kid's 325i parked in the school parking lot and it being the envy of every car-loving pupil or teacher there.
We didn't get the E30 M3 and we were better off for it. The muscular and limited 333i got people talking but it was really the 325iS which cemented itself in SA pop culture - and indelibly in my memory, having had the privilege of being a passenger and driver in one in my early 20s.
There was just nothing else like that creamy, 2.7 litre straight six, nor did anything else in the class look remotely as good.
The Stannic Group N rivalry between Tony Viana in his 325iS and Mike Briggs in the Opel Kadett 2.0 16V "Superboss" is the stuff of racing legend in SA motorsport.

Shortly after my exposure the 325iS, BMW introduced the E36 M3...
... and with that BMW would never need to make a supercar to make me a loyal customer.

For me, this is and remains the essence of BMW, they continue to make cars that are good to drive for people who like to drive.
Sure, if you're a really proficient pedaller, then such cars come at a cost and, some may argue that the current crop of BMWs aren't as exciting to drive as the older cars. This, of course, isn't a BMW failing but instead an evolution of their customer base and the market in general.

 

[klier]

A modified M4, with uglier exterior and crazy price tag? If at least it looked as good as the concept…

Oh, I thought you meant the M4 CSL.
And even if you don't like the 3.0 CSL....calling it a turd is absolutely crazy.

For me, this is and remains the essence of BMW, they continue to make cars that are good to drive for people who like to drive.

And for me this is just not the case. You really need an I6 M performance or full M to get any enjoyment these days, and the majority of cars simply are not fun to drive anymore. Not by a long shot, they've become big heavy luxe barges or SUVs. Devoid of any emotion whatsoever.

That's where something like a supercar comes in. To lift the brand perception.

 

[KiwiRob]

Which of BMW's supercars was it that made you a loyal customer of the brand?

I've always been a fan of BMW since my granddad owned them, my favourite was his 3.0 CSi coupes, he had a silver one and a blue one.