Vs BMW 750i vs Audi A8L vs Jaguar XJL

[330CIZHP]

I just read the Evo UK today and they reviewed the 650i (supposedly a touring sports coupe) in there. Funny thing is there main bold print sentence is:

"The 401 BHP V8 engine in the 650i does an absolute fantastic job of being completely uninspiring and uninvolving".

There is zero doubt BMW is driven to cut back costs while still charging a heavy premium for their cars competing in the very premium segment.

In this case ofcourse, the engine is shared with SUVs, big luxury cars. The character is going to trickle to every model it is used in so it is not surprising the 650i also inherits the same character.

This cookie-cutter and recycle parts from the bin is completely going to come back and haunt BMW. BMW has completely lost it.

 

[EnI]

As said: obviously BMW products are crap, their reputation is a mere marketing fraud, and people who buy BMWs must be total idiots. What else? Do you have some other explanation why people still buy BMWs since they don't offer anything special?

As said: if YOU guys think something, it doesn't mean someone shares your thought, opinion or feeling. You guys look at stuff from your own perspective only.

Why people buy things? Are they forced to buy them? Are they manipulated? If so, why are then happy with the product & buy again it another time. Because they are stupid?

I guess people who buy BMW 7er must be hypnotized or under some nasty BMW marketing spell. Or perhaps they are just stupid? Or being fatally loyal brand fanatics?

Yes, BMW obviously lost it. Completely. Therefore F01/02 2010 sales were highest 7er sales EVER although it costs more than E65. Not to mention the global economy is in bad shape - much worse than it was 5 years ago.
And the 5er sells better than E60 did in the same period.
And the new 6er gets much more orders than E63 / 64 ever did.

Yes, BMW completely lost it. I guess all the sales are a fiction. Or morons are buying all those cars ... Not to mention super-ugly X1, which sells amazingly good. So does "pointless" X6. And even the "WTF" 5er GT sells according to plans, and therefore even 3er GT is coming.

Yes, lost. Completely. Record sales, record profits, record image cache ... Yet lost. Bravo, guys! You nailed it!

NOT!

 

[SKY]

As said: obviously BMW products are crap, their reputation is a mere marketing fraud, and people who buy BMWs must be total idiots. What else? Do you have some other explanation why people still buy BMWs since they don't offer anything special.

As said: if YOU think something, it doesn't mean someone shares your thought, opinion or feeling. You guys look at stuff from your own perspective only.

Why people buy things? Are they forced to buy them? Are they manipulated? If so, why are then happy with the product & buy again it another time. Because they are stupid?

I guess people who buy BMW 7er must be hypnotized or under some nasty BMW marketing spell. Or perhaps they are just stupid? Or being fatally loyal brand fanatics?

Arrf... With this posts you just spoil the debate and frustrate yourself. C´mon, you are a good guy who know more about this business than most of us, try to be more comprehensive.

Of course people will buy the 7er as t is a fantastic choice, but we are not talking about that, but about what this review says.

PD: Does anyone know how the sales of this 7er are? Is it outselling the E65 7er?.

 

[EnI]

PD: Does anyone know how the sales of this 7er are? Is it outselling the E65 7er?.

YES.

And, yes: I am frustrated. Because you guys call something a failure that isn't a failure at all, and see a dark doom where there is none.

Yes, BMW cars DO lose press-initiated comparison tests to their direct & indirect rivals. Daily!!!!

Even the E65 lost many times against previous A8. So? What's new here?
You guys act like till yesterday BMW was the best & unmatched brand with unmatched products. Oh, c'mon. Been brainwashed by BMW propaganda, and/ or the enthusiastic & fanatic BMW-biased automotive media? Not to mention automotive media is hardly an objective journalism.

How many of you guys have ever driven a BMW or have performed a real & through product comparison on your own - incl. test drives?

And btw, one must be very naive to believe literally what advertising slogans say.

Btw, BMW's main ad slogan is "Freude am Fahren" (Sheer Driving Pleasure). And that's all what BMW promises: a great driving enjoyment. Whatever that means. It's market , time & culture specific. Yesterday that was sporty motoring, tomorrow a sustainable driving.

7er lost to A8. Again. The end of the world? Hardly. The end of BMW? Not at all.

Journalists not impressed by electronic steering? Not a news anymore.

 

[Michael]

Eni, I understand what you are saying. I can only speak for myself in this instance, but I do not think BMW is a failure. Journalists review cars all the time. Sometimes they hate on BMW and sometimes they do not.

I myself have test driven many german cars, including BMW, Audi, MB, etc. I know what each of them feels like. My family has also owned both Audi and BMW in the past. The only thing that I am commenting on is that based on what we have read thus far, for both the 7er and the 6er, there seems to be something off balance.

I don't think it is logical to require that every single person have driven every single car made by Audi, BMW, and MB in order to assess whether the cars have changed at all. Many people depend on journalists to do that for them. I mean, many of us have never driven or sat in a Ferrari nor a Porsche, but can tell you certain driving characteristics of these cars based on what we have read throughout the years.

BMW, throughout the years, seems to have been the benchmark when it comes to handling and overall balance of the car. In other words, the drivability of the car was very good. I remember driving an Audi S4 cabrio and feel so disconnected from the car. I also remember driving an S4 sedan and feeling it was a bit too heavy and the handling wasn't that great. However, when I saw in my family's 330i sedan, I felt like that car was a better handler.

 

[donkeykong]

OK. Audi is now THE BEST BRAND & PRODUCT. Period.

Damn skippy

 

[Merc1]

eni, you are being rude with comments like get a life. Please, this kind of things can really offend other people. You could be more critic with bmw, i´ve always told you the same. When something is wrong or done worse in bmw than in other brands, it doesn´t happen anything to just admit it and move on. But seem to have always an excuse to justify everything bmw does. And you end up annoyed with some other forumers.

You have started talking about hard and soft. Ok, let´s say that point is correct. What about the interior?. Why does bmw have to offer the same interior on the 7er than on the 5er?. X1 has different interior than the new 1er, and x3 seems to have different interior than the new 3er, which will surely get a different design (cheaper?) than the f10. If those cars differ in terms of interior design, why can´t bmw´s most expensive offer?. Audi and mb seem to get this right, while bmw doesn´t, even when they did it with the e65.

You talk about comfort being the most important selling point on this segment, then, why has bmw focused on "sporty" driving and not just make a comfy car like the e65?.

So notice the contradictions on your posts. Software is more important than hardware and comfort is the numer one value of this segment. Hence, why not program the car to drive as comfy as customers want?.

You seem to forgt something more important than comfort on this segment: What you get for what you pay. What you get when you buy a 7er is a car that offers you mostly the same than a 5er, that looks the same inside than a 5er, but costs much more. What you get when you but an a8 is the same tame look you have on the a4, but with a quallity almost unpaired on the segment, with a unique interior layout, and for less money than any other car on its segment. Not to mention jaguar, that gives you a 100% different car than the xf. Even mb, the absolute king of the segment, offers you a unique interior, and some gizmos you won´t be able to get on the e-class no matter what you want to pay.

That´s the key here, the exclusiveness. And the bmw is not the sportiest, nor the most comfortable, nor the most unique looking one, nor the most expensive, not even the best balanced between comfort and sport. So, what a bmw 7 series can offer to the customer that other car of the segment doesn´t do in a better way?.

bingo!



M

 

[Guibo]

If everything can be controlled through software, then there should be settings that satisfy both camps: everyday people, as well as those looking for a sharper driving experience.

As much as I think a company should build what customes want, I don't think they should be completely enslaved by customers' wishes. IMO, a truly great company should lead by innovative and engaging product design and development. Thus, they can then be the engine that proactively drives customer desire for a product, rather than being merely reactive. This, in turn, provides a specific company portfolio, much like what we saw BMW develop through the 70s-80s. While it is true that no single car in this test did everything better than another, the BMW faltered in areas where they have built their reputation: powertrain and handling. Yet, also coming up short in areas that matters to the masses (fit/finish). In short, there is no more "joy" than the other cars here.

Success or failure in regards to sales volume. There's two sides to that. If BMW end up selling as many cars as Toyota, yet all of their cars are generally just as uninspiring to drive (barring 1 or 2 exceptions), is that success? Previous 7er wasn't exactly a looker, and it would be interesting to see 7 Series sales breakdowns by region, to make sure that emerging China/India markets aren't the sole influence on stronger sales.