Golf Autocar: Golf R vs. Golf R - Manual against DSG

[martinbo]

This is a very interesting article that illustrates how much better a DSG 'box swops cogs even when compared to a very good driver behind the wheel of a manual-equipped car.

Source: VW Golf R - DSG v manual video - Autocar.co.uk

Watchit:

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Kinda makes me wonder that even with my absolute passion and ability to drive a manual whether I should give up the effort as futility and switch to a self-shifter.

 

[ree]

Kinda makes me wonder that even with my absolute passion and ability to drive a manual whether I should give up the effort as futility and switch to a self-shifter.

Thanks for this…quite interesting. The modern automatic are definitely a huge step…don't know if I would buy a new car with manual gearbox! Well, I drove a Superb 2.0 TDI with 140 hp and DSG once, and was absolutely disappointed - we had this discussion before in the "review" thread I created. Nevertheless drove a XJ8 3.5 and that auto was just brilliant. The gearchanges were sooooo smooth.
I think with never cars, you can't do anything wrong with going for an auto.transmission. BMW new 8 speed must be fabulous and so is the 7G tronic. Also the DSG is great, if it is installed in the right car.

 

[klier]

Kinda makes me wonder that even with my absolute passion and ability to drive a manual whether I should give up the effort as futility and switch to a self-shifter.

Give it up I've been a die hard fan of manual transmissions, but ever after drove a VW Golf V GTI with a DSG gearbox I was sold, and knew this was the way to go in the future. And that there is no going back really.
Since that Golf I've driven in an M3 with DCT, and a 911 4S with PDK. It's just utterly amazing.

 

[DaSilva]

I feel proud right now.... My MKV is a DSG and trust me on this..
That gearbox has been the difference between some few dragraces
I've been to... and I love it and my girls love it... all the girls that
have driven me ... I mean my car loved the automatic DSG... it's about
5-6 girls driven it... the rest was wasted and wanted to check out
the backseat of the GTI

DSG is magic... it really is.

my only question is did he use the Launchcontrol?
My car is a 06 that means it has LC and I must admit
since it's not suitable to use it to often It's acutall over a 1 year
since I've used it but my god I still remember it... brutal and fast.

 

[Giannis]

This thread raises a very interesting question Martin:

How good has an automatic gearbox (read clutch-pedal-less) has to be, to be worth more than a good manual and all the miracles you can work with your left foot?

How good it has to be to say goodbye to double clutching, heel'n'toe and left foot braking?

Sure, I understand the need for a good DC gearbox, but isn't it the ultimate expression of sporty driving to control the clutch yourself?

Note: Apart a short drive on an automatic gearbox w203 C-Class, I have no other experience with automatic gearboxes. I've been a manual man, all my life

 

[Mr Robert]

Don't give up just so easily. I drive for my own pleasure and as long as an autobox is not as rewarding... it is simply not an option. If I wanted efficiency, I would have taken the train.

 

[Giannis]

If you want efficiency, drive slower

 

[Centurion]

Sure, I understand the need for a good DC gearbox, but isn't it the ultimate expression of sporty driving to control the clutch yourself?

It is, but, controlling the clutch divert attention from the actual driving i.e steering right and left, finding the right braking points and breaking line.

I've been driving manual all my life and I love it, but DSG is a different kind of fun, especially if mated with a well designed engine and an agile chassi. The ability to effortlessly extract the most of out the engine and grip of the car is thrilling.

Try it out and you'll love it. Common misconception is that the experience is like driving a car with a slush box, but that's not the case.

 

[Mr Robert]

You must remember that the charm lies in the effort. Driving should be made more challenging as the driver matures, not the other way around..

 

[Centurion]

You must remember that the charm lies in the effort. Driving should be made more challenging as the driver matures, not the other way around..

True. And I can put a hand on my heart and say that neither of the transmissions are "better" than the other. It's like eating. Some of the charm in feeding your belly is cooking the food yourself. The more challenging a meal is too cook, the more rewarding will it be to eat -- like Pizza! But just like driving manual, mastering the art of pizza making takes time, and you might not get it right each time. That's where dialing the number to your local Pizzeria for a prawn, olive, tuna and onion will give you a perfect pizza quick and effortlessly delivered to your door everytime

 

[footie]

Like DaSilva I too owned a DSG GTi and now have the manual form, no doubt about it that the DSG is quicker, surprisingly so, whether it's a case that the gear ratios are better suit to this application or gearbox itself is better suited to FI engine. I know this is a thread that compares the Golf R in both transmission forms but the discussion/debate encompasses a much bigger picture than either this one car or this one form of dual clutch compare to manual. When you look at the M3 in both gearbox forms the gap is much smaller, why is this, is it an FI engine can be kept on the boil better with the lightening shifts of DSG or is the ratios in the M-DCT less effective with the M3?

I think it would be interesting to gather data from all the tests that have compared DCT vs MT in all types and brands of car to work out a picture where it may hold a performance advantage.

 

[ree]

Like DaSilva I too owned a DSG GTi and now have the manual form, no doubt about it that the DSG is quicker, surprisingly so, whether it's a case that the gear ratios are better suit to this application or gearbox itself is better suited to FI engine. I know this is a thread that compares the Golf R in both transmission forms but the discussion/debate encompasses a much bigger picture than either this one car or this one form of dual clutch compare to manual. When you look at the M3 in both gearbox forms the gap is much smaller, why is this, is it an FI engine can be kept on the boil better with the lightening shifts of DSG or is the ratios in the M-DCT less effective with the M3?

I think it would be interesting to gather data from all the tests that have compared DCT vs MT in all types and brands of car to work out a picture where it may hold a performance advantage.

I know, that I scanned an AMS article ones, where they compare manual vs. automatic transmission...but I can't find it at the moment.

 

[klier]

For me:


DCT > manual >>>>>>>>> automatic

 

[footie]

I know, that I scanned an AMS article ones, where they compare manual vs. automatic transmission...but I can't find it at the moment.

I know I have personally debated this very subject at work and the general opinion is that the greatest benefit of DCT is felt with FI engined cars but these were only opinions without hard data to back them up.