Vs [Autobild] Alpina B5 vs. BMW M5 vs. Mercedes E 63 AMG (Does anyone of you have this?)

[cawimmer430]

Re: [Autobild] Alpina B5 vs. BMW M5 vs. Mercedes E 63 AMG (Does anyone of you have th

the point is that the press has always rated M's to be more involving and fun to drive than the competition and its nice to see that it havent changed after all this years.
Personal opinion? sure but the majority seem to think M still is more fun to drive, that must mean something.

The press has also been very BMW-biased, as I am sure you're aware of that.

This isn't to say that BMW M's aren't the benchmark when it comes to performance driving dynamics, but a lot of reviews have a clear bias towards BMW while making it sound like the RS and AMG car is dynamically inferior to the BMW M. In my opinion, from what I have read, I think the M, RS and AMG are pretty much equal and superior to each other in terms of driving dynamics - except BMW just does it a step better and thus has the edge. But a clear BMW bias is evident, especially with magazines like Car and Driver, which is known to be a very BMW-biased publication.

It's just like Lexus these days. A lot of reviewers praise the Lexus IS for example, which I feel is a completely overrated car. Cramped interior space and a very overrated interior (IMO) and unrefined / underpowered engines (IS220d and IS250 respectively according to European reviews).

Get what I am saying? The moment a BMW M comes out, the press will most likely show a bias towards it just because it's a "BMW M".

Again, I am not slamming BMW.

and Caw, its intresting that you think "driving fun" is about acceleration.

Nope. To me, "driving fun" incorporates many aspects such as handling, the behavior / personality of the engine, comfort, acceleration and many other things. I was just showing the slow acceleration of our ex-Pajero so people can see that despite it's slowness, it was still a fun car to drive. Trust me. If Motor Trend or Car and Driver drove that Pajero, they'd be giving it a -10/10 in terms of driving fun.

 

[Zafiro]

Re: [Autobild] Alpina B5 vs. BMW M5 vs. Mercedes E 63 AMG (Does anyone of you have th

Caw,
Lol Caw, everytime a new Benz comes you read how much more comfortable a Benz is compared to the competition. Doesnt matter what BMW or Audi does with their new cars, in the mind of the press a Benz is always the comfortable choice while they make it sound like BMW and Audi has very bad comfort.
If press is bmw-baised then they are benz-baised as well.

and then we have Lexus, maybe you are german damaged and refuse to think that Lexus is on same level as the germans. Lexus is up there too although many members here seem to have something against japanese cars.

and you confuse me, first you say M has a edge and is the drivers car, then you say the press is baised. So, does M in your opinion have a edge or not or are you saying its all Bullshit?

 

[ree]

Re: [Autobild] Alpina B5 vs. BMW M5 vs. Mercedes E 63 AMG (Does anyone of you have th

So, here are the data:

 

[cawimmer430]

Re: [Autobild] Alpina B5 vs. BMW M5 vs. Mercedes E 63 AMG (Does anyone of you have th

Caw,
Lol Caw, everytime a new Benz comes you read how much more comfortable a Benz is compared to the competition. Doesnt matter what BMW or Audi does with their new cars, in the mind of the press a Benz is always the comfortable choice while they make it sound like BMW and Audi has very bad comfort.
If press is bmw-baised then they are benz-baised as well.

See? You do know what I mean.

But I think we already discussed this once. BMW's will always be more dynamic, Mercedes' will always be more comfortable: generally.

And I agree. The press says BMW = good handler, Benz = good comfort.

and then we have Lexus, maybe you are german damaged and refuse to think that Lexus is on same level as the germans. Lexus is up there too although many members here seem to have something against japanese cars.

I don't hate Japanese cars, I just don't particularly like Lexus much.

Why? I can tell you.

Because people give them more credit than they really deserve.

I'll just mention the basics. Lexus copied Mercedes from day one with a few changes, among them offering more for less money and a better dealership experience than all the German (European) luxury makers. This means no snob salesman shooed you away if you went into a Lexus dealership in a polo shirt and jeans. So Lexus did everything right the Germans were doing wrong. Fine.

But what do Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Bentley etc. all have in common? Innovation, Motorsport Heritage (and success) and Global Appeal. Let's take Lexus now. Innovation? None. Hybrids are old news, an 8-speed A/T is an improvement, not an innovation. Motorsport? Rolex Racing Series? Never heard of it. Ring me up when Lexus participates in LeMans, Formula One, Carrera Panamericana, DTM, WRC etc. Global appeal? Not much.

Lexus is a new luxury brand, but it lacks the heritage of the European brands and I know some people don't care about that, that's fine. But I do. To me, a luxury brand has to have some sort of exciting background. Maybe it's because to me, the definition of a luxury marque is something like Mercedes or BMW or Jaguar, Bentley or Aston Martin and a few others. Companies with a powerful and strong past. Companies with global appeal.

Lexus successful background is based on copying others. This is the reason I don't like them and why it irks me when people consider them to be "on the same level" as the European brands in terms of prestige. BULLSH*T. I personally don't even consider Lexus to be on the same level in terms of prestige with the likes of brands like Fiat, Skoda, Renault, Citroen, Lancia and other notable mainstream European brands. If you know your automotive history, you'd see that the brands I just mentioned have a lot of involvement in terms of innovation, motorsport heritage etc. They have cult cars, a testimony to how long they've been around for instance. They have global appeal as well. Heck, Citroen has more innovations up their sleeve than Lexus for example. Citroen was one of the first manufacturers to experiment with diesel-powered passenger sedans in the early 1930s (before Mercedes even!) and Citroen was the first company to mass-produce a modern FWD car in the early 1930s, the Traction Avant. Citroen after the post-World War II period produced successful suspensions that were highly rated for comfort etc. Citroen also produced legendary cars like the Ami or 2CV and was a design leader. Citroen has a more impressive resume than Lexus could ever hope to achieve.

Let's not forget that 64% of American Lexus sales are of the Toyota Harrier, excuse me, Lexus RX.

No offense to the Lexus fans here, just stating my opinion.