Audi's DSG leads the way.

Yperion

Cornering Kingpin
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Yannis


DSG: Stick Shift RIP

If you were going to invent a way to control an automobile, you wouldn’t ask the average driver to develop the skill and coordination of a church organist. Note I said “average.” As far as hardcore automotive enthusiasts and skilled pipe organ players are concerned, there’s nothing more natural or satisfying than making beautiful music with a sublime dance of hands and feet. Yes, well, the average person would rather drive an automatic and download an iTune. Pistonheads and pipe worshippers may sneer, but if the majority of humans didn’t take the path of least resistance our species would still be stuck in the trees. Meanwhile, just as digital sound has invaded God’s house and rocked the organist’s world, Audi’s DSG transmission is here and tripedalists are toast.

The day F1 racing cars switched to paddle shift control, the clutch pedal was doomed. Only the system's violence kept it from a date with old Sparky. Ferrari’s ground-breaking attempts at a passenger paddler were representative rubbish; the clunky F1 system transformed the sublime F355 into a herky-jerky one-track pony. Other early systems were equally obtrusive, equally foul. At the same time, style conscious high-end manufacturers added wheel-mounted button shifts and gate activated “tip shifts.” Although the technology simply handed customers slushbox control, computers eventually transformed the systems into a reasonably convincing halfway house between mindless ease and endless excitement.

Aston's Vanquish got closer to the real deal. If drivers tapped its over-sized plus paddle at the exact right rpm, the V12 GT rewarded them with a perfectly timed gear change. If not, not. Other systems followed: Ferrari, Maserati, BMW, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, even Toyota (MR2 Spyder). All of these paddle shifters downshift magnificently-- even blipping the throttle on your behalf-- but they either slur their upchanges like a drunk handing you a cigarette or smack you in the back of the head like a sadistic schoolteacher. And that’s without considering the challenges of around town ambling or, God forbid, reverse (a non-issue for F1, obviously).

And then BorgWarner and Volkswagen AG developed DSG. The direct shift gearbox (DSG) features two wet plate clutches: one engages the odd-numbered gears, the second the even-numbered gears. When the first clutch is putting down the power, a computer readies the second clutch to engage the next gear (pre-selected according to engine revs and speed). When the driver bangs the paddle for another gear or the automatic calls for another cog, the first clutch is released and the second engages. Gear shifts are fast, smooth and accurate; both up and down the ratios. The DSG’s computer-- complete with 12 sensors-- stands guard against “inappropriate” gear selection; an over-twitchy paddle shifter can’t stall or blow up the engine.

OK rivet counters: Volksie didn’t invent the double clutch. Citroen offered something similar over 70 years ago, and Porsche’s formidable 962 racer also gave it a go. But VW and BorgWarner have just about perfected the DSG. (The only drawbacks are a certain sluggishness when gently tipping-in and a slight hesitation when paddling down more than one gear, as the DSG shuffles through the intervening ratios.) Even with its quirks, the DSG rules-- to the point where the clutch pedal and traditional manual gearbox is a mechanical redundancy, a dead device shifting. In fact, any car manufacturer who doesn’t have a DSG or something similar installed in their performance-oriented products will soon be at a tremendous disadvantage.

And here’s where the culture wars begin. Two years ago, Bob Elton’s editorial “Death to the Stick Shift” suggested that cars equipped with an automatic gearbox were safer, more reliable and more pleasurable than their manual equivalents. Enthusiasts considered the proposition a personal affront. Two years of flame mail leads me to conclude that stickshifters-- a self-selecting community of motorists who cherish the skill and pleasure that only a manual transmission can provide-- consider autoboxers less competent, safe and passionate. Many of these tripedalists will not take kindly to the DSG; it’s a bridge from the know-nothing rabble to the self-proclaimed automotive elite. The barbarians are at the shift gate; The Volkswagen Group has unlocked the door.

It will be some time before this issue plays out, but the stickshifters will lose. Once they get behind the wheel of a DSG-equipped machine like the new Audi A3 or the VW R32, even the hardiest of these manual transmission diehards will be hooked by the system’s clear superiority; in terms of speed, ergonomic ease and, most importantly of all, enjoyment. Eventually, the tide will turn. Automakers will be forced to buy "dual clutch transmission" technology from BorgWarner or their partner Getrag, or develop something at least as good. Of course, there will still be enthusiasts who stick with the stick, for personal pride and sensual satisfaction. In the meantime, a quick message from Paddle Shifters Anonymous to open-minded automotive enthusiasts: get ready for some serious fun.


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Nice to see that Audis DSG game is begining to kick off. Though I am a bit disappointed that they didn't make it available for the S6.
 
That is some advanced stuff right there. I'm still a stick man though:cool:
 
Now all they need to do is increase it's availability amongst the rest of the model lines.
 
I don't think that the DSG would be more enjoyable to someone who enjoys the greatest level of control. There is something just right about doing that - that it was all your skill that that gets you the perfect, smooth and fast gear shift.

However, that doesn't mean that manual transmissions are better. I quite believe that the DSG is better in performance aspects - speed of shifting, etc.; and ease of use certainly.

At the moment I drive automatic only - I'd learn manual shifting (well, I already can, just no practice lately) properly if I could, and there was a reason to (none of our family cars are manual), but there isn't. Chances are, in all likelihood, that the wife won't drive manual either. So why bother? My car will serve me, and I don't want to mould my life and circumstances around that of what transmission is in my car (ie. getting to learn it, getting others to learn it).

So, that said, the DSG is an excellent compromise for me, and the best way to go at the moment. Good performance with the ease of use of an automatic. One unmentioned bonus is that the fuel economy is equal to that of the manual (at least on Golf GTI). :emthup:

I also wish that Audi would make it available throughout the lineup, though; especially with the A4 2.0TDI. Hey, the Golf 2.0TDI has it?
 
DSG so far is only available in Audi models with logitudinally mounted engines namely A3 and TT but soon the version for models with transverse mounted engines will be available as it was presented in Roadjet concept.
 
Have to say, DSG is one truly superb innovation by the Audi/VW Group. It combines the control and fuel efficiency of a manual with the optional ease of change of an auto. It offers real, valuable benefits and almost no detractions. And Audi did it first. However, sad to see that it does not seem to be that aggressively promoted yet by Audi - well at least in Australia. If more people knew about what it did, it could be a huge selling point. Perhaps this is due to its relative unavailability through the Audi range? Hopefully that will change soon.
 
It is amazing that such a great system which is better than cars such as Ferraris with the F1 tranmission can be had on a Skoda! I am going to try and make my dad get one on his next golf!

I wonder if Audis RS models could use the same DSG system as used in the Veyron?
 
Yannis said:
DSG so far is only available in Audi models with logitudinally mounted engines namely A3 and TT but soon the version for models with transverse mounted engines will be available as it was presented in Roadjet concept.

YANNIS! What a blasphemy!
TT & A3 have transversely installed engines!

Roadjet Concept was the first model featuring DSG in conjunction with a longitudinally installed engine. The new B8 A4 & A5 will be the first Audi models with this configuration - and new 7-speed DL510 gearbox.

Yannis, shame on you! :D
 
EniLab said:
YANNIS! What a blasphemy!
TT & A3 have transversely installed engines!

Roadjet Concept was the first model featuring DSG in conjunction with a longitudinally installed engine. The new B8 A4 & A5 will be the first Audi models with this configuration - and new 7-speed DL510 gearbox.

Yannis, shame on you! :D

I got the engine configurations vice versa but you got the message.

BTW i heard that BMW is preparing three different version of it's DCT gearbox, the DCT 477, DCT 436 and DCT 250. The first will be used in diesel engines the second in benzin ones and the third in MINI.:cool:
 
Yannis said:
BTW i heard that BMW is preparing three different version of it's DCT gearbox, the DCT 477, DCT 436 and DCT 250. The first will be used in diesel engines the second in benzin ones and the third in MINI.:cool:

Would I be right in assuming the numbers 477, 436 and 350 refer to the amount of torque they can 'hold'?
 
Top Secret said:
Would I be right in assuming the numbers 477, 436 and 350 refer to the amount of torque they can 'hold'?

No i don't think so. Those are just production/testing codes. The 436 is said to be able to handle up to 600 Nm torque so the 477 will handle even more.

b3bc2208d36dd33750b5cd22dcbc38da.webp


Does anyone know good French?:D

http://www.forum-auto.com/sqlforum/section1/sujet143264-1295.htm
 
Yannis said:
I got the engine configurations vice versa but you got the message.

BTW i heard that BMW is preparing three different version of it's DCT gearbox, the DCT 477, DCT 436 and DCT 250. The first will be used in diesel engines the second in benzin ones and the third in MINI.:cool:

This is one of the rumours.

Getrag has developed a series of DCT transmissions:
DCT 477 - transaxle longitudinal, 7-speed, 700Nm, wet concentric clutches, hydraulic actuation
DCT 436 - inline, 7-speed, 600Nm, wet concentric clutches, hydraulic actuation
DCT 250 - front transversal, 6-speed, 250Nm, dry clutches, 3-shaft design, electromechanical actuation
DCT MPS6 PowerShift(tm) - front transversal, 6-speed, 450Nm, wet parallel clutches, 3-shaft design, hydraulic actuation
DCT SPS6 PowerShift(tm) - front transversal, 6-speed, 450Nm, wet parallel clutches, 2x2-shaft design, hydraulic actuation

I only got a confirmation 7-speed DCT 436 (600Nm max) will be used in BMW vehicles.

Not sure about DCT 477 & DCT 250. While DCT MPS6 & SPS6 are exclusivelly for Ford Group.

Some say DCT 477 will be combined with BMW diesel engines, but I doubt it. Getrag makes transaxles for Audi & Porsche only. So DCT 477 could be either for Porsche or new top-end Audis.

PS: The gearbox in the pic is DCT 436 by Getrag
 

Audi

Audi AG is a German automotive manufacturer of luxury vehicles headquartered in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, Germany. A subsidiary of the Volkswagen Group, the company’s origins date back to the early 20th century and the initial enterprises (Horch and the Audiwerke) founded by engineer August Horch (1868–1951). Two other manufacturers (DKW and Wanderer) also contributed to the foundation of Auto Union in 1932. The modern Audi era began in the 1960s, when Volkswagen acquired Auto Union from Daimler-Benz, and merged it with NSU Motorenwerke in 1969.
Official website: Audi (Global), Audi (USA)

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