Vs Audi A7 vs. BMW 5-series vs. MB E-Class design discussion

[Michael]

Agreed. I think it'll sell well for Audi's standard for it, initially, then it will sit on Dealer lots and collect dust, just 2-3 years after its debut (like the original CLS did, even though that was/is a highly regarded design).

That's the beauty about a timeless 3-Box Sedan, the E/5 will power away as Sales leaders in their segment, and more importantly, admired designs that hold their own on the streets, until the very day they get replaced by the new model, while fashion-fad designs get the popping smoke and "ooh" factor initially, but like every trend, pass.

This begs the question, are car manufacturers going to go back to basics eventually? This might be a little bit off topic and I would love to discuss this in another thread, specifically created for it, but I do wonder with MB, BMW, Audi, etc., making so many different kinds of cars, are they going to eventually go back to small, mid, and large sizes?

If the A7 is supposed to fall in between the A6 and the A8, won't you just opt for either the 6 or the 8 or the 7 and the 8? I mean, how big are the differences to create an entirely new class? Granted, the new CLS is absolutely gorgeous, but I am not too sure how long these cars will last in the market.

I think the A7 will sell because their are consumers who are going to like the car, there are consumers who will just by anything Audi, and there are consumers who will upgrade their Audis to something new like the A7. However, will it attract a new type of customer? Maybe we will have to wait and see.

 

[K-A]

I could definitely see that happening. Fact is, they'll have fun recreating thee sub-genres, but nothing will ever outlast or out-shine the traditional shapes, i.e 3-Box Sedan, Coupe, etc. And they are making Sedans so dynamic nowadays, they all have Coupe-like proportions and flavors, whilst keeping a stately and functional Sedan element.

 

[bmwownage]

To me, MB is kind of at a stage where BMW was in Bangle's era, not that the designs were similar in any way, but they are in search of a direction. To me, it seems like they don't really know where they are going yet, maybe they know now with all cars getting the "new" grille as on the CLS/SLK etc. and their designs are quite extreme that makes you "wow". Then for example the W211, it looked excellent but it didn't had much "wow" to it, much like the F10 i think; then we can relate the E60 to the W212.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Perhaps the currently so en vogue 4 door coupe configuration will be the first to demise. As mentioned above, the so called traditional sedan is becoming increasingly exciting and rakish in character. Evidence of this is presented by BMWs' F10 5 series and the new C7 Audi A6. And should the F800 Concept truly be a precursor to future Mercedes-Benz sedans (and I for one certainly hope that this will be the case), the CLS will become superfluous. Who shall want, need or miss it if the F800s' gorgeous profile is indicative of that of the W212s' successor ? Crossover types of automobiles such as BMWs' upcoming 3 GT (and who knows ? Maybe Audi will rejuvinate the Roadjet) may replace the upright and rigid 3-box sedan. Here in Germany, taxi fleets are slowly replacing their E-Class sedans with VW Tourans, Opel Zafiras, M-B B-Class' and Skoda Octavia wagons.And perhaps we will see a renaissance of the larger 2 door coupe. A sweepy and markedly sporting authentic E-Class 2 door coupe in the tradition of the C124 or a 2 door Audi A7 as the spiritual successor to the 100S coupes. BMWs' new 6 series (admittedly extremely upmarket) displays just how appealing this particular configuration can be.
And come to think of it: who needs a BMW 7 series SWB sedan when the 6er GC lurks just around the corner ? Judging by the concept car, it appears to be far more rakish sedan than coupe.

 

[K-A]

At least out in the States, I remember reading an Article a couple of years back, about the potential "demise" of the 2-Door Coupe. As Sales have been dropping off, while Sedan sales are dominating everything. I don't see the Sedan taking a break out here, but every generation that passes, they get more "Coupe-like" in terms of proportions and roofline. When the limit has to be met however, is another story, as there's only so much headroom that they can squeeze from any more than they already are, back there.

Also, out here, out of all designs, the most traditional and still benchmark of making a prestigious "statement" is by way of Luxury Sedan.

To be honest, I think the biggest game-changer in terms of Sedans, aside from the CLS starting this "trend", is the Hyundai Sonata. Now that they introduce such a funky shaped Sedan in such a low and mass market segment, all the other Mass-Players will surely follow suit.

As for the F800, I was under the assumption that it is the ground for the next C-Class?

 

[donkeykong]

Very good point and I feel like that about certain cars. Unfortunately, I do not think the A7 will age well. I think the car is poorly designed. The lines do not seem to connect to the back. It is as if two wholly independent cars were put together. Like someone else said, the front seems to belong to another Audi in the lineup while the back should have been a neglected rear end in the design phase. I do think that Audi will attempt to rectify the design in the next incarnation, if they decide to keep it around.

I totally disagree with just about everything in that statement,the Audi has the cleanest design of any of the cars spoken here it is also the most graceful. The lines flow effortlessly just like the original CLS was,which caused the Benz to age extremely well. M-B has gone away from that approach,the new E has a very busy design,from some angles it lacks cohesion and doesn't work nearly as well as the A7. It's still a very good looking car,and has that initial "look at me" factor. But will it age well?

Both Audi,and Mercedes seem to be doing a good job of keeping their cars looking fresh,and have the ability to spruce things up when their face lifts roll around,but as of late the same cannot be said about BMW. Hopefully they don't slaughter the design of the 5er like they did with the 3 series.

 

[K-A]

I think BMW's first plan of attack will be on that huge blunt nose, for the facelift. I think that's the only angle of the F10 that will look dated, fast. Too blunt and unresolved IMO.

 

[klier]

^ But with all due respect, your opinion doesn't matter to BMW. They see that very differently. As do I and so many others. And the nose will not change with the FL, I can tell that already

 

[braaf]

the Audi has the cleanest design of any of the cars spoken here.

In other words it's boring.

 

[Merc1]

I just wish the A8 could have a front like this!



M

 

[Deleted member 1071]

As for the F800, I was under the assumption that it is the ground for the next C-Class?

Reports indicate that the F800 is a precursor for M-Bs' new sedan architecture. This will be introduced in the form of the upcoming C-Class successor and be followed somewhat later by the successor to the W212 E-Class.

The new S-Class due for introduction in 2012 will be more of a transitionary automobile, featuring elements seen on current M-B sedans mixed with some F800 design cues. Hence, real design innovation begins with the new C.

 

[K-A]

That makes sense. The W222's profile and architecture/greenhouse appear almost identical to the W212, just much longer. I'm not too crazy about the F800's greenhouse and lines-play, so I'm curious to see how it turns out. It seems less "Sedan" and more "4-Door Coupe" to start with IMO. And the greenhouse and aspects of it remind me of the Hyundai Sonata.... Which makes sense, as the Sonata incorporates a Sedan's roominess with "4-Door Coupe" greenhouse.... Which makes it appear a bit awkward next to an appropriate "4-Door Coupe" with limited headroom.

 

[MikeJ]

In other words it's boring.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is to think that a clean design that looks 'right' will stand the test of time much better than a design that is bold and striking - as the novelty wears off, they date very quickly. Personally, I'm very happy that of the three brands Audi has stayed true to the German tradition that the other two have strayed from and avoided unnecessary clutter when it comes to designing their cars.

 

[martinbo]

I just wish the A8 could have a front like this!



M

From that angle there - the A7 looks its absolute best. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it looks better than the W212, F10 and even the C218 when viewed from this perspective. Terrific job done there... more the pity then about the 80's-esque fastback bum - it's the only blight on what is otherwise an incredibly handsome design. The car has presence - no question about it.

 

[klier]

No question about it? Meh, guess big means presence then...

That's one way to look at it.

THE way. And more and more people think this, when I look at polls in popular magazines and stuff. Audi design was WAY hotter 5 years back then it is now...

 

[MikeJ]

And more and more people think this, when I look at polls in popular magazines and stuff.

I see. Now tell me, why should anyone form their opinion based on what other people think?

 

[Giannis]

That's one way to look at it. The other way is to think that a clean design that looks 'right' will stand the test of time much better than a design that is bold and striking - as the novelty wears off, they date very quickly. Personally, I'm very happy that of the three brands Audi has stayed true to the German tradition that the other two have strayed from and avoided unnecessary clutter when it comes to designing their cars.

I think that the bold part is true, yet only up to a point.

It is a fact that latest Audis have very clean lines and designs, yet it's the details (the LED lights for instance) that ruin the whole package. A clean design doesn't need such kitsch and shouty details to look good. It just does.

 

[donkeykong]

I think that the bold part is true, yet only up to a point.

It is a fact that latest Audis have very clean lines and designs, yet it's the details (the LED lights for instance) that ruin the whole package.

The A7's LED's are striking,and only add to it's visual appeal,sadly the same cannot be said for the A8 which looks awkard from some angles.

 

[K-A]

Slightly related:

Today, going through U.S sales for April 2011, I saw the 5-Series sold 3,668 cars (5GT included), and the E-Class a staggering 5,342. Even with the Coupe taking a very minute portion of those Sales, it is quite impressive for the E, as the F10 is a first year player, so Sales should be at its most inflated this year. Also, notable is that the "E" is once again M-B's volume leader (over the "C").

I wonder how this compares to the W211's debut years?

 

[Zafiro]

Just checked swedish sales for April.

BMW sold more 5-series then they sold 3-serie, C-class/ and E-class. Pretty amazing to outsell the 3-series

1. Volvo V70
.
.
9. 5-series
12. 3-series
15. C-class
22. E-class