AMG M157 Bi-Turbo V8!

[vabboud]

because it is too early to digest a 450+bhp, 6.2 liter C class
heck all its prinicpal competitors, are/will be in the sub 4.5 liter category, this thing has an advance of over 2 liters

 

[wltsm]

because it is too early to digest a 450+bhp, 6.2 liter C class

Remember the C55, with a 5.5 litre V8, that's way bigger than the other engines, but no one said that would never happen......

 

[bum-man]

I don't see why that would be the case, when the 6.2 V8 already used by AMG is so close in terms of size, it would be too costly! Also, if the CLK is able to take the engine, then why not the C class! Comparing the C55 amg and CLK 55 amg they both had the same engine with the same power, so why wouldn't that be the case for the new engine?

Using the same 6.2L in a lower classed model would trivialize everything AMG. The bigger models will simply not feel as special. Of course there are other reasons...
I think it's ok for the CLK to use the new engine because the top-of-the-line CLK was the 500 model. The C highest model was the 350. The CLK's base price is considerably higher then the C-classes, people see it as a higher class of car and will pay more of a premium. The C-class can't get away with that so it will have to be more competively priced and they can't do that with an expensive engine like the 6.2L. it would be no problem for AMG to tweak the 5.5L to 420hp and 550Nm. That alone would give it around a 100Nm advantage over the competition having 630Nm would just be over kill.
Besides, it would just be terrible to see them electronically castrate that 6.2L. That's the way I see it, or at least my wishfull thinking.

 

[vabboud]

i still find it hard to digest such an engine ina car like the C
the old 5.5 was a tried and trusted lump that was broken little by little into the C for one, and power wise it didn't break any barriers, it looked like good ol' MB style, big powerplants, unstresed with modearte powers, what they always did to battle BMW
but a 6.2 in a C? now it seems freaky

 

[GTA45E]

Using the same 6.2L in a lower classed model would trivialize everything AMG. The bigger models will simply not feel as special. Of course there are other reasons...
I think it's ok for the CLK to use the new engine because the top-of-the-line CLK was the 500 model. The C highest model was the 350. The CLK's base price is considerably higher then the C-classes, people see it as a higher class of car and will pay more of a premium. The C-class can't get away with that so it will have to be more competively priced and they can't do that with an expensive engine like the 6.2L. it would be no problem for AMG to tweak the 5.5L to 420hp and 550Nm. That alone would give it around a 100Nm advantage over the competition having 630Nm would just be over kill.
Besides, it would just be terrible to see them electronically castrate that 6.2L. That's the way I see it, or at least my wishfull thinking.

Bum-man, I know what you and vabboud are getting at and it sounds quit logical. But Mercedes-AMG made it quit clear that thay wanted one single engine to fit in the entire AMG lineup. Thay orignally wanted a V10 but thay came to the conclusion that a V10 wouldn`t fit. So thay decided to go with a 6.2liter V8. We will see this 6.2liter V8 with different power rating all across the AMG car line, even the SLK! We will also see two Bi-Turbo versions of this engine as well for the S63 and SLR.

 

[vabboud]

how much can you spread ana modulate a single enigine to meet the requirements of a whole lineup, and a mamoth lineup as well, without either sounding too cheap and cheesy, and more importantly without stretching the limits of engineering
i mean turbocharging an engine is ok for the highest models, and using it in nrmal aspiration mode for midlevel, but how much detuning can you do for the lower models, and mroe importantly how practitcal is a 6.2 liter V8 in a car like the SLK or C class?
factor in consumption, it is bound to consumme far mroe than a 4.5-5.0 liter engine with similar power outputs
it still a huge pill to swallow

 

[GTA45E]

how much can you spread ana modulate a single enigine to meet the requirements of a whole lineup, and a mamoth lineup as well, without either sounding too cheap and cheesy, and more importantly without stretching the limits of engineering
i mean turbocharging an engine is ok for the highest models, and using it in nrmal aspiration mode for midlevel, but how much detuning can you do for the lower models, and mroe importantly how practitcal is a 6.2 liter V8 in a car like the SLK or C class?
factor in consumption, it is bound to consumme far mroe than a 4.5-5.0 liter engine with similar power outputs
it still a huge pill to swallow

I believe this "one engine concept" for the entire line is actually cheaper and easier to produce than having different sized engines. The M156 is an engineering master piece.

I`m sure MB has the consume facter worked out for the SLK & C-Class models. There are very simple ways to reduce power for the lower class models. I`ll bet thay won`t consume any more fuel than the 5.5liter. If so it won`t be by much.

 

[Zafiro]

This sounds like a sigh of relief! The C63 AMG will still be more powerful than the competition, you can bet on it.

C55 is already more powerful than M3 but it isnt much faster. MB formula is power, BMW is weight.

 

[GTA45E]

lOl, I know this is an old thread... lOl at some of you who didn`t think the C AMG would get the M156 6.2liter V8!

Anyway looks like the M157 Bi-Turbo will make it`s debut in 2008 with 700ps (thats about 693hp)
This is supposed to be Hammer1. Hammer2 is the light pressure Turbo version.
http://www.jesmb.de/news/cs-moteren.htm

It also appears that the C63 will get 450ps (that 443hp) impressive!

Now that the 6.0liter Bi-Turbo is on the way I`m wondering should MB AMG drop the 5.9liter V12 in the S65, bore the 6.0liter to 6.8liters (with 650ps) and give it the S69 name instead of developimg a new V12. That would save them a few bucks.

 

[Zafiro]

Sounds like someone here is worried about the upcoming RS6

 

[LaArtist]

^i would do that to..if my effections lay with another brand than Audi..
and i suggest you should do the same

dont underestimate

 

[Zafiro]

^i would do that to..if my effections lay with another brand than Audi..
and i suggest you should do the same

dont underestimate

I already know the new Rs6 is going to be faster than both M5 and E63 but like some others I dont fear the new RS6. I have already accepted a defeat

 

[GTA45E]

Sounds like someone here is worried about the upcoming RS6

MB never fear when it comes engine power. Mercedes has (for more than 60-years been ahead of the game. We arn`t going to just back off a battle.

Think about it though 693hp is huge!! I`ll bet the SLR will get this engine!

 

[Zafiro]

MB never fear when it comes engine power. Mercedes has (for more than 60-years been ahead of the game. We arn`t going to just back off a battle.

Think about it though 693hp is huge!! I`ll bet the SLR will get this engine!

haha I love it when you use the word "we" when you talk about a carbrand

 

[Alwing]

Anyway looks like the M157 Bi-Turbo will make it`s debut in 2008 with 700ps (thats about 693hp)
This is supposed to be Hammer1. Hammer2 is the light pressure Turbo version.
http://www.jesmb.de/news/cs-moteren.htm

Sorry to break up the party but according to the site you referred to, it said that the engine is cancelled for 2008.

Source: JESMB
2008
AMG V8 BiTurbo mit 6,0 Liter und knapp 700 PS (M157) ==> gecancelt !!!

I don't know how reliable this source is though.
Personally I think we'd have to wait for a long time before this engine will debute because of the following:

- The AMG 65 engine just debuted in the CL-class, customers will feel kinda screwed if a more powerful engine debuted a year after.

- It would make the SLR (722 edition) not the most powerful sportscar Mercedes has to offer. Not top of the range.

- AMG is also researching to produce AMG diesel engines and hybrid technology due the enviromental pressures. And developing 3 engines/technologies simultanously would require alot of resources and engineers. So that means alot of money and manpower.

- Currently EU developments are going on concerning the reduction of automotive emissions, don't know in what extent it will effect the plans to debute the engine though.

If this new engine will debute, I'd say around 2012 when the new SL-class comes out or the future SLC. Also the SLR will be out of production by then.

 

[Merc1]

I agree, it is too early for this V8. I have no doubt that a turbo V8 is coming, but it won't be until the 2010-11 model year (U.S. timetable). The S/CL will get a facelift and a new SL will also debut, just like back in 2003. The SL55 came out with the king-kong engine first and then the S and CL got it for their facelifts. A new E will also debut at the same time with this engine. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not the AMG V12 will still be around, doesn't seem like it needs to be with this V8 coming. If AMG is already getting as much 525hp out of the new V8, naturally aspirated then when they terror-turbo it the power is going to be ridiculous. A new version of the 7G-tronic gearbox must also be under development too since I can't see them going back to the old 5-speed for the new turbo V8 with will undoubtedly be a torque monster again.

Also during this time we should see a new V12 based on the same design prinicples as the current V8 and V6. I don't see where AMG can go with the V12, 600hp is pretty much the limit without some major chassis changes, but then again the next SL is being designed now so they have the chance to make sure it can handle 700+ hp. Makes me breathless just thinking about a 700hp Mercedes-Benz.

M

 

[Pagani]

There will always be a V12, and you can bet AMG will want to put their hands on it. A 700hp V8 can coexist peacefully with an AMG V12, the latter having perhaps as much as 1000hp (but realistically, I think it will be limited to an equal, albeit far more refined and torquous 700)

 

[GTA45E]

Sorry to break up the party but according to the site you referred to, it said that the engine is cancelled for 2008.



I don't know how reliable this source is though.
Personally I think we'd have to wait for a long time before this engine will debute because of the following:

- The AMG 65 engine just debuted in the CL-class, customers will feel kinda screwed if a more powerful engine debuted a year after.

No sweat, thanks for clearring that up.. I don`t speak German but the moment I left the Library that last word hit me in the head!

If the 5.9liter V12 doesn`t get a powerboost of some sort than the E63 wont likely brake the 600hp mark.. Looks like the M156 is here to stay for a while. The 5.9liter in the S65 I believe was introduced in 2003-04
so yes, it`s still "new"..

 

[LaArtist]

There is a new V12 in the pipeline..
So it will proabably get the AMG treatment..
And then probably end up in a future pagani ( not the coming.. ) but maybe the one after..

So with that..they should be able to push the V8 north of 600hp

 

[GTA45E]

If AMG introduces a Bi-Turbo V8 of 6.9liter capacity. The V12 should be dropped, I don`t see the need.