AMG larger and more money invested than M divison?

[Zafiro]

AMG is releasing new AMG performance cars over and over again. We see many projects within one year. M division dont seem to have as many projects as AMG and they take longer time to releasing cars.

I would love to see more special editions, like more M's. More CS versions and more CLS versions but I dont want to wait 10 years to see them. M need to hire more people and BMW need to give them more projects to work on.



I wonder if Mercedes is giving AMG more money than BMW gives to M divison?
I also wonder if AMG has more employees than M?

Anyone with some facts or thoughts about this?

 

[LaArtist]

Hmm..
M division sells more cars right?

So if they do that.. they must have more employees..
and MB giving AMG more money than BMW giving M..
I would say most likely....

 

[Merc1]

Never really thought about this one. Hmmmm...does anyone have the sales figures for both?

I already know what will be said here by most, M is more focused and therefore more exclusive. No M version of everything like Mercedes does with AMG etc. etc. I think in the future this will change as BMW begins to see that the M brand can be applied to more models successfully, though no one will ever have as many models of everything like Mercedes does.

By design you just can't expect as many M models and I'd say AMG has a much larger budget. No way you develop the current roster of 1 jillion AMG models on small budget. Especially since AMG is diving head-first into heavy customization now with the Signature and Black Series cars.

Put it this way, M gets more of each of their dollars invested than AMG does. AMG on the other hand pushes more hp on more models than BMW or Audi ever would or could. I fully expect AMG's lineup to shrink and become more focused as Mercedes continues to right itself. The fact that they decided not to do a GL63 points to this.

M

 

[SDNR]

AMG is much more than just a tuner though, they also specialize in one-off vehicles for very rich customers -- they restore classic models too -- it is quite a different operation to BMW M in many ways.

 

[Merc1]

Yeah that is true, forgot about that. They'll literally do anything you ask if you have the $$$$.

M

 

[Zafiro]

Yes, M feels more exclusive since there arent many different models but if M sell more cars worldwide than AMG, then whats make M so much more exclusive?

 

[Merc1]

Yes, M feels more exclusive since there arent many different models but if M sell more cars worldwide than AMG, then whats make M so much more exclusive?

To me it seems that way because there are only like 7 M models compared to at least a 12 AMG models. And really there are only 4 M models; M3, M5, M6 and Z4 M, but more if count the different body styles of each. AMG on the other has in some cases 2 AMG versions of the same car!

Plus AMG, up until just recently would make an AMG version of anything, witness the R63 AMG. It makes the AMG brand seem far less exclusive than the M brand IMO.

M

 

[Centurion]

Yes, M feels more exclusive since there arent many different models but if M sell more cars worldwide than AMG, then whats make M so much more exclusive?

Lol, exactly. If BMW does sell more M-cars than AMG then they are less exclusive. After all exclusivity is all about production figures and nothing else.

 

[Zafiro]

MB also have special versions of the AMG's called Black Series. M has none today. (M3 E46 CSL excluded).

 

[Beemer B773ER]

To me it seems that way because there are only like 7 M models compared to at least a 12 AMG models. And really there are only 4 M models; M3, M5, M6 and Z4 M, but more if count the different body styles of each. AMG on the other has in some cases 2 AMG versions of the same car!

M

So what does that say about AMG if M is outselling them with a smaller line-up? We hear all the time from BMW that they do not want to create an M-variant for a certain series.. I wish MB followed this line of thinking as well.

As for their comparatives sizes and level of investment from their respective parent companies.. my money would be on AMG being the bigger and greater-funded than the eMpire... but I have nothing to back me up on that.

 

[SDNR]

Lol, exactly. If BMW does sell more M-cars than AMG then they are less exclusive. After all exclusivity is all about production figures and nothing else.

Going by that philosophy Luw, wouldn't that make this (the Jinbei Zhonghua) more exclusive than an S class?

 

[Merc1]

So what does that say about AMG if M is outselling them with a smaller line-up? We hear all the time from BMW that they do not want to create an M-variant for a certain series.. I wish MB followed this line of thinking as well.

As for their comparatives sizes and level of investment from their respective parent companies.. my money would be on AMG being the bigger and greater-funded than the eMpire... but I have nothing to back me up on that.

See last paragraph in my first post.

If M does indeed outsell AMG it is likely due soley to the M3, IMO. Then again AMG is pushing a whole gaggle of models that cost more than any M car does.

M

 

[Zafiro]

I think I read some time ago that in USA, BMW sell more M3's than the whole AMG lineup together.

 

[Merc1]

I remember reading that very same thing, but that isn't nearly the case now.

M

 

[Centurion]

Going by that philosophy Luw, wouldn't that make this (the Jinbei Zhonghua) more exclusive than an S class?

I guess that's the case, but some of the most exclusive cars are also the most ugly and crappy ones, like that car in the picture and the Pontiac Aztek

 

[Zafiro]

I remember reading that very same thing, but that isn't nearly the case now.

M

The sales was for M3 E46. BMW has sold 90.0000 M3 E46 during the years and most of them went to US.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Going by that philosophy Luw, wouldn't that make this (the Jinbei Zhonghua) more exclusive than an S class?

Hahaha, good one mate! I was trying to think of an example as well to disprove Luw's reasoning, but I couldn't.... but trust you to come up with some wacko car.

But to respond to the question you posed to Luw', the answer would be yes, that car is more exclusive than an S-class because less number of them exist. That ofcourse is using the objective definition of 'exclusive', but these days the word 'exclusive' automatically creates connotations such as sought-after and expensive.

Gotta love the Jinbei Zhonghua

 

[Merc1]

Ahh...but here is the thing about "exclusivity", you have to address why a particular car is more exclusive.

I used to have this argument with GM fans on another board all the time. When Cadillac was the best selling luxury brand in the U.S. it was all smiles, but then once, BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes passed Cadillac they harped about how Cadillac was now all of sudden "more exclusive". Pure BS. True exclusivity in part means that you could sell more, but you don't. Not the opposite; you can build more but can't sell more which is what Cadillac's issue was/is.

I used to hear the same argument about the Infiniti Q45, that is was more "exclusive" than the S-Class, 7-Series and even A8, when the reality of it was simply that no one bought the car. True exclusivity is by choice, not because you have a non-sought after product.

Really nothing about 95 percent of MB, BMW, or Audi models are truly "exclusive", IMO.

M

 

[Zafiro]

Here is the sales regarding M3:

M3 E46 = 90,000 cars sold
All M3 generations = 180,000 cars sold

Source

PS, the new M3 V8 isn't included.

http://www.germancarforum.com/3-series/16190-worldwide-bmw-m3-sale-numbers.html

 

[Merc1]

The sales was for M3 E46. BMW has sold 90.0000 M3 E46 during the years and most of them went to US.

Oh I'm sure and now that I think about it, it could still be true, but I was going by the figure I just saw and it was less than 4000 units for the M3 in 2006. Of course production was winding down then. I read somewhere that AMG sells about 10K units in the U.S. so it is very well possible the M3 still outsells the entire AMG lineup.

M