Hot! All kind of sales Audi / BMW / Mercedes

[EnI]

@Mr. Mercedes

BMW should by definition be more of a niche brand in the premium segment - due to its sporty nature & image - than MB, Lexus and Audi. Being more similar to Cadillac, Jaguar, Porsche & Alfa Romeo in the spirit & essence.

IMHO it was an anomaly that a sport-oriented brand have been trumping more comfort-oriented brands in the premium vehicles segment. But it felt good good until it lasted.

Lexus lost it in the US due to tsunami in 2011 which abruptly cut into production of Toyota / Lexus vehicles. Now the order is restored. Same goes on the global scale, when MB is restoring its former glory with much better products compared the previous generation (engines, gearboxes, designs, quality etc) ... While Audi is marching due to sub-compact Audi-branded vehicles in thee portfolio (A1, Q2, possible sub-A1 model) - a product offering that's missing in the rivals' portfolios.

 

[Merc1]

"BMW should by definition be more of a niche brand in the premium segment - due to its sporty nature & image - than MB, Lexus and Audi. Being more similar to Cadillac, Jaguar, Porsche & Alfa Romeo in the spirit & essence. "

What a bunch of BS. BMW is no different from MB, Lexus or anyone else in the luxury car market now. They try to sell as many cars as possible, and they'll cheat to do it. There is nothing exclusive about a BMW and it's sporty nature and image isn't nearly what it used to be.

M

 

[EnI]

What a bunch of BS. BMW is no different from MB, Lexus or anyone else in the luxury car market now. They try to sell as many cars as possible, and they'll cheat to do it. There is nothing exclusive about a BMW and it's sporty nature and image isn't nearly what it used to be.
M

Yes, NOW. Because they gone mass volumes. But in the core essence it's a sporty brand. And therefore destined to be a niche in this segment ruled by comfort.

Yes, exclusivity is gone. So is the exclusivity of MB - even more now, I guess, overselling all the others. Not to mention buses, cargo vans & heavy trucks with MB star on the nose. No other premium brand offers cargo vans & heavy trucks & buses.

Regarding "cheating" ... Pushing outgoing models for loaner cars at the end of the year (especially as a part of after-sales customer satisfaction experience) is hardly cheating. As a consequence first 2 or 3 months in the year are poor in sales results compared to the December sales.

And as said many times: the company does not care to whom it sells the cars ... When they are purchased, the company gets the money - the deal is closed. Period.

When it comes to registrations vs sales ... Not all cars, purchased in the very end of the month are also registered in that particularity month. Quite some of them are registered in the next month already. That's even more inconvenient @ the calendar year change (Dec / Jan situation).

Also ... "dick-measuring" can be exercised in many different ways ... By comparing total sales figures, or revenue figures, or gross profit figures, or net profit figures, or free cash flow, or EBIT(DA) figures, EBITDA profit margin figures etc etc. Sales figures are easiest to understand, and therefore the best figures used for brand / company promotion to general public.

P.S.: regarding Lexus ... In Europe Lexus is a complete niche. Lexus is selling even less cars (39,600 vehicles in 2015) than Porsche (63,300 vehicles in 2015) or Jaguar (40,300 vehicles in 2015). Not even CT & RX changed that. Same case with most the other non-US markets. Lexus is more or less US market peculiarity.

 

[Merc1]

Yes, NOW. Because they gone mass volumes. But in the core essence it's a sporty brand. And therefore destined to be a niche in this segment ruled by comfort.

Yes, exclusivity is gone. So is the exclusivity of MB - even more now, I guess, overselling all the others. Not to mention buses, cargo vans & heavy trucks with MB star on the nose. No other premium brand offers cargo vans & heavy trucks & buses.

Regarding "cheating" ... Pushing outgoing models for loaner cars at the end of the year (especially as a part of after-sales customer satisfaction experience) is hardly cheating. As a consequence first 2 or 3 months in the year are poor in sales results compared to the December sales.

And as said many times: the company does not care to whom it sells the cars ... When they are purchased, the company gets the money - the deal is closed. Period.

When it comes to registrations vs sales ... Not all cars, purchased in the very end of the month are also registered in that particularity month. Quite some of them are registered in the next month already. That's even more inconvenient @ the calendar year change (Dec / Jan situation).

Also ... "dick-measuring" can be exercised in many different ways ... By comparing total sales figures, or revenue figures, or gross profit figures, or net profit figures, or free cash flow, or EBIT(DA) figures, EBITDA profit margin figures etc etc. Sales figures are easiest to understand, and therefore the best figures used for brand / company promotion to general public.

P.S.: regarding Lexus ... In Europe Lexus is a complete niche. Lexus is selling even less cars (39,600 vehicles in 2015) than Porsche (63,300 vehicles in 2015) or Jaguar (40,300 vehicles in 2015). Not even CT & RX changed that. Same case with most the other non-US markets. Lexus is more or less US market peculiarity.

Sorry, but none of that changes anything I said. BMW is just as common as any other luxury brand there is nothing different about them compared to MB, Lexus, Audi or Cadillac. The only niche brand operating in their space is Porsche and even they are changing. You can point to the exclusivity of the MB brand all you want, but MB still makes some exclusive cars like the AMG GT or the S Cabrio, and so does BMW like the i8, but their brands themselves are no longer exclusive. Keep thinking that BMW doesn't care about sales. You're not dealing in reality. They'll do anything to post the biggest December numbers in the U.S. and I do mean anything.

M

 

[Matski]

As long as BMW keeps on producing some class leading and desirable vehicles that remain true to their core values, with a good dose of profitability thrown in, I'll be happy. It's just a shame they have chased volume so relentlessly and have produced an unnaturally high number of vehicles that are not true to the core brand values.

Given that many of the new additions to the line-up are niche vehicles, I don't think BMW were particularly chasing volume with them. As mostly they've been developed from existing platforms I believe they are quite profitable, it seems more likely to me they were chasing profit margins, rather than outright sales numbers.

They could easily bolt-on 70,000-100,000 units per year if they got the 1er sedan out on the global market to compete with the A3 sedan and CLA. In my humble opinion, that should have been part of the plan for the 1-er or the 2-er all along.

I don't think it will hurt much if BMW drop to third place. They are still supported well by their sub-brands, rather than parent companies.

 

[EnI]

@Merc1

What is exclusivity? Eg. Chinese brand cars are exclusive in EU and / or USA ... if we only take sales figures in account.

 

[Merc1]

@Merc1

What is exclusivity? Eg. Chinese brand cars are exclusive in EU and / or USA ... if we only take sales figures in account.

Nope, Chinese brands are not exclusive because NO ONE wants them. That means they just plain suck.

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Given that many of the new additions to the line-up are niche vehicles, I don't think BMW were particularly chasing volume with them. As mostly they've been developed from existing platforms I believe they are quite profitable, it seems more likely to me they were chasing profit margins, rather than outright sales numbers.

They could easily bolt-on 70,000-100,000 units per year if they got the 1er sedan out on the global market to compete with the A3 sedan and CLA. In my humble opinion, that should have been part of the plan for the 1-er or the 2-er all along.

I don't think it will hurt much if BMW drop to third place. They are still supported well by their sub-brands, rather than parent companies.

IMO there is no other reason for vehicles such as the 3er GT, 5er GT and 2 series other than volume. These vehicles are completely at odds with what the brand stands for.

 

[SCOTT27]

Of course the niche vehicles are volume chasers. Over the time they add up. Exactly the same reason Mercedes-Benz are pursuing niche models of their own such as the GLC and GLE Coupe's. They are based on existing models just as the X4 and X6 are therefore more cost effective to produce and profitable.
It might not mean much but the GT models of the 5er and 3er add up to over 100,000 units since their introductions in 2009 and 2013 respectively.
Again volume and again based on existing models and again profitable.

Some try and elevate one over the other in regards to focusing on profits more than volume. But when it comes down to it they are whores just like everybody else.

 

[Matski]

Well, that's the answer straight from the "whore"-ses mouth

 

[Amat46]

Yes, NOW. Because they gone mass volumes. But in the core essence it's a sporty brand. And therefore destined to be a niche in this segment ruled by comfort.

Yes, exclusivity is gone. So is the exclusivity of MB - even more now, I guess, overselling all the others. Not to mention buses, cargo vans & heavy trucks with MB star on the nose. No other premium brand offers cargo vans & heavy trucks & buses.

Regarding "cheating" ... Pushing outgoing models for loaner cars at the end of the year (especially as a part of after-sales customer satisfaction experience) is hardly cheating. As a consequence first 2 or 3 months in the year are poor in sales results compared to the December sales.

And as said many times: the company does not care to whom it sells the cars ... When they are purchased, the company gets the money - the deal is closed. Period.

When it comes to registrations vs sales ... Not all cars, purchased in the very end of the month are also registered in that particularity month. Quite some of them are registered in the next month already. That's even more inconvenient @ the calendar year change (Dec / Jan situation).

Also ... "dick-measuring" can be exercised in many different ways ... By comparing total sales figures, or revenue figures, or gross profit figures, or net profit figures, or free cash flow, or EBIT(DA) figures, EBITDA profit margin figures etc etc. Sales figures are easiest to understand, and therefore the best figures used for brand / company promotion to general public.

P.S.: regarding Lexus ... In Europe Lexus is a complete niche. Lexus is selling even less cars (39,600 vehicles in 2015) than Porsche (63,300 vehicles in 2015) or Jaguar (40,300 vehicles in 2015). Not even CT & RX changed that. Same case with most the other non-US markets. Lexus is more or less US market peculiarity.

MB has been selling trucks since the 1880's and they've got nothing to do with brand exclusivity.

 

[Matski]

US Sales...

Thought I'd make a graph to get things in perspective. I hate it when percentages are bandied about without context..

 

[klier]

I hope BMW starts focusing on making fantastic cars again instead of having the most sales. It was fun while it lasted, now get back to work, scrap half of the line up and be done with it.

 

[Zafiro]

Global sales for 2015 been official yet?

 

[Matski]

I hope BMW starts focusing on making fantastic cars again instead of having the most sales. It was fun while it lasted, now get back to work, scrap half of the line up and be done with it.

I don't think scrapping half the line-up would be good for the company. I don't have a problem with the line-up, I think it's okay to target different groups of people - the problem is, when you target a group of people, and then deliver a car which doesn't actually meet their needs. I don't think BMW's range needs to be more focused... I think each car within the range does though.

I'm rambling now, I'm tired, I hope that made sense.

Global sales for 2015 been official yet?

Another week yet I think.

 

[mdartisian]

I don't think scrapping half the line-up would be good for the company. I don't have a problem with the line-up, I think it's okay to target different groups of people - the problem is, when you target a group of people, and then deliver a car which doesn't actually meet their needs. I don't think BMW's range needs to be more focused... I think each car within the range does though.

I'm rambling now, I'm tired, I hope that made sense.



Another week yet I think.

Great point. If BMW can get their dynamic edge back over the comp with the next 3er and 5er, all will be forgiven. Right now, they don't have the people's hearts anymore. Porsche has done well to maintain their pedigree, BMW just has to mater the steering feel, and/or implement it on their cars again.

 

[SKY]

I am surprissed all this is happening. Sure MB is on a roll lately but even Audi passing BMW?

Not sure the current strategy lf making the new models look like a deep facelift of the previous model will end up working, to be honest.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I am surprissed all this is happening. Sure MB is on a roll lately but even Audi passing BMW?

Not sure the current strategy lf making the new models look like a deep facelift of the previous model will end up working, to be honest.

Nope it's going to cost them sales. Mercedes has been wowing the masses with their design Renaissance while BMW has become slightly staid.

 

[tomazino]

This january sales figures are somehow like last year in first month. I think that in february already, BMW will be ahead mercedes and audi (not january + february, but just for february)...

 

[SKY]

Also: till May a final decision will be made on next gen 1er 3-door, i8 Roadster version, and the brand-new 8er/9er.

Hmm? I thought these ones were already decided. No 3dr 1er and already greenlighted 9er.