Vs 5Th Gear: M3 V8 vs C63 AMG

[ALI]

Yeah, and the M3 beats the C 63 on the track by a good margin. We're back on square one.



Well, we're still to see a track where the C 63 beats the M3 but perhaps it might have a chance on a track like this :

LOL, im going to be quite honest with you, all that really matters is straight line performance, I dont live on a track, and im sure none of you guys here do either .... take it on the freeway, or public streets, im sure they will handle equally and amazingly well ... So quit it with the whole track crap .. You make it seem like thats all that matters ..

 

[ALI]

The E46 M3 WAS UPDATED with the "competition package" or "CS" designation when the C55 became availiable. The CS version had upgraded brakes, steering rack from the M3 CSL, along with suspension tweaks and a new DSC system to make it perform better on the track. (Just like the C55 got major suspension/steering/ESP upgrades compared to the C32).

Evo tested the E46 M3 CS against the C55 in a head to head comparison on their benchmark track, and their laptimes were very close, just 0.3 seconds apart. Remember, the C55 had narrower stock tires, smaller rims, and NO mechanical LSD.

Now, the differences in laptimes between the E92 M3 and C63 appear to be much more significant. And now with the new E90 M3 sedan and optional DSG gearbox and adjustable dampers, the C63 has lost the comfort/practical advantage the C55 had over the E46 M3, which only came in coupe form.

The main advantages the C63 has over the new E92/E90 M3 is 1) Styling, (which is subjective), 2), straight line acceleration, and 3) status of a 3 point star (which is also subjective).

I usually dont fall in love with guys, but dude, I couldnt have said it any better ... I love you man ...haha

 

[ALI]

Not really. And I doubt it ever will unless AMG fixes the way they brand their cars. 10 years later there will be a C73 (or whatever AMG comes up with) and the C63 won't mean much just as C32 or C36 or C43 doesn't mean much anymore. While M3 would still be around and still be a legend. I am surprised they still haven't realized the value of having a strong brand name.

bias

 

[CorpusCallosum]

bias

the truth.

 

[Sunny]

bias

Not that I am refuting having a bias towards M and a pretty strong one at that, but is criticism of the way AMG brands their cars (and not the cars themselves) really a case of bias?.

All I am saying is pick a name and stick with it and not change it every few years and they will have a stronger brand down the road. May be I should have used 911 as the example instead of M3 and it wouldn't be termed bias. Even MB is not foreign to the concept - didn't they decide to call SL550 SL500 in some markets to preserve the brand (or is it SL600, not sure)?

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I haven't driven a C55 (only a C32 once) but have had considerable seat time in a C5 vette which I would consider offers the same "push in the back". Again, it was wonderful feeling, but got old fast. There is really no nuance to it, smash the pedal and go "weee". I guess different boat for different folks.

I totally agree with you there is much more to driving than just flooring the car and feeling the torque pushing you back. That's why I've become a fan of taking my car to the track occasionally. The reality is that unless you take your car to a track, there are very limited opportunities to really drive your car the way you imply to really feel a significant difference between a M3 and C-AMG car when it comes to turning. Sure, the occasional on-ramp or off-ramp can be fun, but it PALES in comparison to anything you can do on a track. Trust me on this one. However, there are a lot more opportunities to simply step on the throttle and go fast from a stoplight or on the highway.

Those of you who think there is a HUGE difference in the way a M3 or C-AMG car handles or feels when turning on everyday streets or on-ramps are unrealistic. The main aspects that will feel different on everyday roads is whether you're driving a stickshift or not, and the power delivery of the engine (low end torque vs high reving). Remember, we're not comparing a Lotus Elise to a Rolls Royce Phantom when it comes to the M3 vs the C-AMG car's handling ability. The difference is not SO GREAT that you'll regularly be able to exploit it on the streets (again, my perspective comes from the E46 M3 and C55).

Try your M3 on a track Sunny. I can almost guarantee you'll love it. It's also so much safer than ripping it on an on-ramp.

 

[Sunny]

Try your M3 on a track Sunny. I can almost guarantee you'll love it. It's also so much safer than ripping it on an on-ramp.

I have.

 

[ALI]

Not that I am refuting having a bias towards M and a pretty strong one at that, but is criticism of the way AMG brands their cars (and not the cars themselves) really a case of bias?.

All I am saying is pick a name and stick with it and not change it every few years and they will have a stronger brand down the road. May be I should have used 911 as the example instead of M3 and it wouldn't be termed bias. Even MB is not foreign to the concept - didn't they decide to call SL550 SL500 in some markets to preserve the brand (or is it SL600, not sure)?

I said bias cause you placed the C63 with the previous non popular C AMGs ... plain and simple, Ive never heard anyone speak of the previous ones.. With the C63 its been a different story, I hear people here in L.A talking about it already, the car is not even out yet ....

There was no question about the fact that the previous M3 was better than C32/55 AMG, or any of the previous in both's history .. Again now you cannot ignore this new C63 no matter what u say, LoL ... Its too good to ignore .... If the M3 COUPE beats the C63 on a track by a small margin, it does not mean that the C63 is a bad track car, and we all know both are quicker than the M5 and E63 without a doubt ...

 

[Zafiro]

LOL, im going to be quite honest with you, all that really matters is straight line performance, I dont live on a track, and im sure none of you guys here do either .... take it on the freeway, or public streets, im sure they will handle equally and amazingly well ... So quit it with the whole track crap .. You make it seem like thats all that matters ..

No straigtline performance do no only matters. I can have just as much fun with 420hp as a car with 450hp. And I sure dont need to live on a track to enjoy a M3.

And regarding handling on public streets. I suggest you guys try out a RS4, in the hands of Average Joe this car is unstoppable, the traction and grip is insane and you will beat C63's and M3's easily when the roads starts to turn. But it doesnt mean its the most fun car to drive. So if you drive a C63 do not be cocky, you might end up with a surprising result if you race a RS4 on beautiful curvy country road. And if the road is slippery, I suggest you give up.

 

[martinbo]

^ That's one of the nicest posts I've read from you in a long time JM. Impressive. Erm, what to say - I couldn't agree more.

 

[Mr Robert]

I think the biggest prowess of the C63 is to feel just as exciting in corners than the M3.

Let's not confuse scary and involving calling them both exciting...

 

[ALI]

No straigtline performance do no only matters. I can have just as much fun with 420hp as a car with 450hp. And I sure dont need to live on a track to enjoy a M3.

And regarding handling on public streets. I suggest you guys try out a RS4, in the hands of Average Joe this car is unstoppable, the traction and grip is insane and you will beat C63's and M3's easily when the roads starts to turn. But it doesnt mean its the most fun car to drive. So if you drive a C63 do not be cocky, you might end up with a surprising result if you race a RS4 on beautiful curvy country road. And if the road is slippery, I suggest you give up.

You are pointing out one sentence then skipping to the next paragraph, lol... In other words i meant that both cars handle amazingly well, i repeat amazingly well.... So I dont care about getting the best out of a track... Therefor what really comes to great matter is power, who the hell on this earth can ignore power?? Its disrespecting, its mean , its humiliating !! LoL ...

I agree RS4 is an amazing car aswell, but its not that much of a gorgeous car, C63 is way more apealing ... I want a car that looks like the money I pay for, thank you !!

And about the slippery roads, u got the wrong guy to be telling to give up ... Im sure the C63 outhandles any of the cars I had , and ive done enough on the wet, and im not a professional driver ..

A mercedes benz AMG belongs to its owner, bought to be driven and understood by its owner, car testers and magazine tests will never give you AMG cars' full potential, half the time they barely know how to even use it .. in this test it wasnt driven in manual, thats why you heard him saying its not giving him the gear he needed when needed ..

And about giving up, ju talkin to the wrong guy, I never give up ... I try, that im best at ..

 

[Zafiro]

And about giving up, ju talkin to the wrong guy, I never give up ... I try, that im best at ..

... and it will get you killed one day j/k
I still stand for what I said earlier, on public roads and where the roads starts to turn ,the RS4 owner is going to have the advantage thanks to AWD and when the road is getting wet, well what can I say. Yes, it will be very hard for you to swallow your pride when you get smoked by the four powerful rings.

and second, I dont need 457hp, all I need is 420hp and a highreeving engine and Im just fine.

 

[martinbo]

Similarly of course, the whole debate around M3 vs. C63 vs. RS4 can be balanced out depending on the driving situation at hand: where will most M3's come up against C63's? On the freeway of course. And in this situation all the C63 owner has to do is mash the throttle and off he goes! This is really what most buyers of such cars, sadly, want.

The minority of us who do value the feel of driving a car as smoothly and as closely toward (and sometimes beyond) the limit of lateral adhesion will always opt for the more involving drive - and sacrifice those precious seconds in a head to head drag. We drive for ourselves; for the feel of it - not to impress our passengers, nor to put another notch in the door post for everyone of those inferiors that we blew away from the stop lights.

As driving enthusiasts I'd bet we'd absolutely love driving both the RS4 and the C63 together with the M3 and I'd think we'd do each product fair justice. It's just that when the chips are down and it's your investment to make, you need to choose which car fits your requirements most suitably.

I want a car that offers the greatest possible combination of control and adjustability without isolating the driver from the interaction. And that's why I'd choose, in this price range, the M3.

 

[Zafiro]

The minority of us who do value the feel of driving a car as smoothly and as closely toward (and sometimes beyond) the limit of lateral adhesion will always opt for the more involving drive - and sacrifice those precious seconds in a head to head drag. We drive for ourselves; for the feel of it - not to impress our passengers, nor to put another notch in the door post for everyone of those inferiors that we blew away from the stop lights.

I'm proud of being one of them. We are the selected ones who understand the meaning with the word "driving"

I want a car that offers the greatest possible combination of control and adjustability without isolating the driver from the interaction. And that's why I'd choose, in this price range, the M3.

I second that


Last but not least, a manuell M3 or a M3 with DCT. Its a tough world we live in.

 

[Sunny]

I said bias cause you placed the C63 with the previous non popular C AMGs ... plain and simple, Ive never heard anyone speak of the previous ones.. With the C63 its been a different story, I hear people here in L.A talking about it already, the car is not even out yet ....

There was no question about the fact that the previous M3 was better than C32/55 AMG, or any of the previous in both's history .. Again now you cannot ignore this new C63 no matter what u say, LoL ... Its too good to ignore .... If the M3 COUPE beats the C63 on a track by a small margin, it does not mean that the C63 is a bad track car, and we all know both are quicker than the M5 and E63 without a doubt ...

And you completely missed my point again which was to not compare this M3 with C63 or the previous ones with C55 or C43 or C36. I was just critiquing the way the AMG brands their car.

 

[Guibo]

Not metallic enough. The e46 was a Ferrari-like noise, really fabulous.

Besides the metallic rasp, they were not that similar. Curiously, both C&D remarked that the new V8 has the metallic raucousness of the old car, and Evo noted it sounded similar to the old engine at lower revs.

And I saw all comparos saying the C63 sounded better. Jason Plato seemed to say that too in that comparo here.

All comparos? Can you list them?
He didn't seem to be saying that.

A lot of journalists said they were missing the noise of the I6.

Again, I don't think it's a lot. Only a few, if that. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 20+ reviews. (Granted, there may be more mentioned in non-English language mags.) TopGear Magazine made a point to make the distinction that the two sound different -one doesn't necessarily sound better than the other. People also have a habit of looking back at earlier times through rose-tinted glasses, and journalists are no exception.

Both C63 and M3 V8 make an absolutely gorgeous noise, I prefer the one you the other, we both are right!

Agreed.

 

[coolraoul]

Wow, what an argument...I like it...

What I wanted to point is that all separate reviews said the C63 was as good handling as the M3. In real, deep comparos on track they saw the M3 is still better.
But the difference is that now, to see the handling differences, to feel the advantage of the M3 you have to be a professional driver on a track and with the 2 cars to compare.

Before it made no doubt. The C felt much heavier, less involving.
Now the C63 feels just as good. Even good drivers loving handling cars will love the C63. That was not the case with previous AMGs. The handling, and more of all the feeling difference was quite obviozus for a good driver.

The steering of the C is now even considered as as good as the one of the M3. If not better according to some reviews. Again, when compared on track and with the 2 cars standing side by side, some will prefer the M3, but in separate testdrove they did not felt a difference, the CAMG even felt just as good as the M3.

My point is that: even if the C AMG still is not as good handling, it feels as nimble, as good as the M3. So even a good driver will love it. And as it has more power, delivers more sensations with the torque and noise, and yet is also high-revving... Before the steering was heavy, the handling not as exciting. Now it is not the case any more.


The M3 superiority is now so small, that it mainly is in the numbers. In the real life, in the feelings, unless you drive both 2 days long, both will fell as good handling. So you can't say anymore "I like handling and corners so the AMG is out for me, it is less involving and nimble". Even a good driver won't be able to feel the difference if he does not go on track with the two cars. He only will feel the brutish power of the C63.

That is why I think I would choose the C63, because it revvs high too, is brutish and torquey, but also handles fabulously. The M3 may be marginally better on track, or have a tiny little advatage in corners, the difference now is unnoticeable by the common man. What you will feel, on the contrary, is the motor of the C63...

But like already said: both are fabulous, both are gorgeous, there is not really a better car and a right choice. They are slightly different, and it is better like that.

 

[Zafiro]

If its the same case with E63 and M5 V10 , then C63 isnt going to feel much faster. I've driven both M5 V10 and E63 and the speed in these two are damped and it kinda hide the speed experience. You have to look at the speedo to understand how fast you really are going.

Now to something different. For curiousity, M3 V8 with manual gearbox reach 180km/h on the speedo in third gear.
How fast is C63 going in third gear, anyone?

 

[Mr Robert]

But like already said: both are fabulous, both are gorgeous, there is not really a better car and a right choice. They are slightly different, and it is better like that.

So very true!

The AMG has come a long way when in some cases one has to perform a direct competition to find that the M3 still is more involving and fun to drive than the competition.