2014 Le Mans

[Sunny]

Good to have one thread for al the LeMans cars instead of spreading it all over.


TS040 was revealed today.

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http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1091115_2014-toyota-ts040-hybrid-le-mans-prototype-revealed-video

 

[Centurion]

Together, the engine, gearbox and motor generating unit looks to be about the size of a fridge. Meanwhile, the airbox looks super tiny. Where do the engine and radiators breath most of their air from?

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

So Toyota seems to value all-out power while Porsche is going for endurance with their 919. I don't know who to root for.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

So Toyota seems to value all-out power while Porsche is going for endurance with their 919. I don't know who to root for.

Seems like Toyota's approach is taking the attack right to Audi, whereas Porsche still think LeMans is an endurance race. It's not... it's 24 hour sprint race these days! Of course to finish first you must first finish, but in terms of approaches, I definitely like Toyota's 'Go Hard or Go Home!' attitude!

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I just hope somebody besides Audi wins, so bleeding boring.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

The tech we're seeing in the TS040 will likely be carried over to the LFA successor in due time. This technology makes the current hybrid super/hypercars seem ordinary.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

It's just a pity they didn't really focus on aesthetics where possible. I mean, that headlight unit, sure it's a terribly ugly look (function over form), but they easily could have added some nicer looking lights or something. The livery, although traditional, is rather boring.

Nevertheless, it'll look a whole lot prettier when it crosses the line and takes the chequered flag.

 

[///K]

This technology makes the current hybrid super/hypercars seem ordinary.

The technology inside 918 Spyder is more complicated than you think.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

The technology inside 918 Spyder is more complicated than you think.

Actually yeah, I take back my comment as I do not know enough about the technology in these cars to make such a sweeping statement.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

In terms of number times needed to refuel their cars, i wonder how often they need to do it since Audi utilizes a diesel engine. In a racing format, is the diesel that much more efficient?

 

[Sunny]

In terms of number times needed to refuel their cars, i wonder how often they need to do it since Audi utilizes a diesel engine. In a racing format, is the diesel that much more efficient?

Good question. The main advantage of diesel is it's higher density which makes gives it higher volumetric energy density (35.86 MJ/L vs vs. 32.18 MJ/L). This is awesome for street cars cause you measure and pay by volume. But by weight, both fuels are almost tie in energy density - 43.1 MJ/kg for diesel as opposed to 43.2 MJ/kg for gasoline.

Anyway, I was curious so I did some math - within LMP1 class, you can build your car to 5 rule categories depending on the amount of energy you are allowed to regenerate/use per lap -

Porsche is in the highest 8MJ/lap category. Audi in 2MJ/lap and Toyota in the 6MJ/lap.

So based on that, here are some theoretical laps -

Audi - 54.8L diesel fuel @35.86 MJ/L = 1965.128 MJ. @140.2 MJ/lap ~ 14 laps
Porsche - 66.9L gasoline @ 32.18 MJ/L = 2152.842 MJ @ 134.9 MJ/lap ~ 16 laps
Toyota - 66.9L gasoline @ 32.18 MJ/L = 2152.842 MJ @ 137.2 MJ/lap ~ 15.7 laps

Of course all theoretical numbers, not sure how much it reflects reality.

 

[Sunny]

Meanwhile first test for WEC cars - Paul Ricard WEC test: Porsche goes quickest in second session

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Maybe it's 12+ straight hours of studying pharmacology, but my understanding is that Porsche and Toyota, theoretically, are at a slight advantage over the diesel Audi.

Thanks, Sunny. You truly are a testament to your guru status.

 

[Sunny]

^Lol, it was just multiplication and division on my part. I seriously doubt how much it reflects reality. I am sure the real calculations are way more complicated. But yes, these cars do intrigue me a lot.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I used to be intrigued too, esp. the era when Porsche (GT1), M-B (the CLKs), BMW, Toyota, Nissan, McLaren etc. were competing. The CLK-GTR and the F1 still remain some of my all-time favorite cars. Now there seems to be some variety outside of Audi. Not that I have anything against Audi, they exceptional machines with a racing program that's the envy among its competitors. There needs to be some variety though.

 

[KiwiRob]

So Toyota seems to value all-out power while Porsche is going for endurance with their 919. I don't know who to root for.

Audi!

 

[///K]

So Toyota seems to value all-out power while Porsche is going for endurance with their 919. I don't know who to root for.

And yet, the 919 is reported to be the faster car around Paul Ricard.

 

[Sunny]

Porsche is in the highest 8MJ/lap category. Audi in 2MJ/lap and Toyota in the 6MJ/lap.

So based on that, here are some theoretical laps -

Audi - 54.8L diesel fuel @35.86 MJ/L = 1965.128 MJ. @140.2 MJ/lap ~ 14 laps
Porsche - 66.9L gasoline @ 32.18 MJ/L = 2152.842 MJ @ 134.9 MJ/lap ~ 16 laps
Toyota - 66.9L gasoline @ 32.18 MJ/L = 2152.842 MJ @ 137.2 MJ/lap ~ 15.7 laps

Of course all theoretical numbers, not sure how much it reflects reality.

So out of curiosity, I crunched some more numbers -

Toyota is producing 473HP (353KW) of electric power. So being in the 6MJ/lap category the Toyota can use all of it's 473 electric horses for about 17 secs (6MJ/353KW). Porsche being in the 8MJ category can use the same amount of power (if they have an electric motor of same power) over 22 secs. Or they can use 470KW (630HP ) over the same 17 secs if they have electric motors powerful enough. The Audi in contrast being in the 2MJ/lap category can only use 117KW (157HP) over 17 secs. To compare, 2014 F1 cars can release a maximum of 4MJ/lap which translates to 120KW over ~33 secs. But in F1, rules limit the max power of MGU-K to 120KW. (Another additional complexity in F1, only 2MJ/lap can be recovered from MGU-K, rest has to come from the MGU-H).

So which makes me wonder, since things seems to be stacked in favor of recovering as much energy as possible, why isn't Audi (and Toyota to a lesser degree) in the 8MJ category. I don't know, my guess is weight. To be in 8MJ category, you obviously need a heavier energy store, and it is possible Audi and Toyota found it difficult to not go beyond the min weight given their bigger engines. Which also probably explains why Porsche chose to go with a small 2L V4. The other possible reason could be the energy store - Porsche uses Li-ion batteries, Toyota, super capacitor and Audi uses the Williams fly wheels based system. A fly wheel based is probably more limited in how much energy it can store for a given weight and vol and Audi probably wants to stick with it because it is a known quantity to them.

Having said all that my money is still on Audi. They have the experience and the endurance. Porsche seems to have an advantage on paper, but it is a lot of new complex systems and reliability is going to be questionable in the first year - look at F1. But after a long time I am actually excited about the LMP class.

 

[Sunny]

Porsche changed 919 to the 6MJ/lap category - apparently they couldn't recuperate 8MJ/lap - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113159

And FIA changed the rules - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113377

Toyota and Porsche, which both run in the 6MJ hybrid sub-class, will now be allowed 139.5MJ per lap of the 8.47-mile Le Mans circuit rather than the original 137.5MJ in the original regulations published in December.

The fuel capacity of the TS040 and the 919 has been raised from 66.9 to 68.3 litres.

The fuel allocation for the Audi, which runs in the 2MJ hybrid class, has been adjusted downwards from 140.2 to 138.7MJ and the fuel capacity of the R18 reduced from 54.8 to 54.3 litres

So theoretical laps possible if they spend max allowed fuel energy/lap
Audi - 54.3L diesel fuel @35.86 MJ/L = 1947.198 MJ. @138.7 MJ/lap ~ 14 laps
P&T - 68.3L gasoline @ 32.18 MJ/L = 2197.894 MJ @ 139.5 MJ/lap ~ 15.7 laps

And total energy/lap possible -
Audi total energy/lap - 140.7MJ (old - 142.2 MJ)
Porsche and Toyota - 145.5MJ (old - 143.5MJ)

So looks like FIA moved the power equation a little in favor of the gasoline cars while keeping laps possible still same as before for both categories.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I'm still at a complete loss with regards to all the MJ stuff (I've barely read up on these developments), but THANK YOU Sunny for explaining things in much more layman's terms!