Vs 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL63 AMG vs 2012 BMW M6

[K-A]

The previous SL was somewhat feminine in it's styling. But what Mercedes has tried to do with the R231 is to instill it with lots of 'hard' surfaces and straight lines that makes it look tone and masculine without being fat or bloat. You can see it from the side where the SL looks quite lean and ground-hugging.

It was the exact same situation with the launch of the W212 VS the W211. M-B kind of went from one extreme to the other with both of the new replacements in those cases.

What I'm wondering is if that guy's comments applied to the R231.... 'cause I'm not even knocking the design, but he's on some Marketing babble baloney if he is. It looks like with the R231 M-B are moving AWAY from grace and cleanliness when compared to the R230. That's not saying that the R231 isn't graceful or relatively clean, but the R230 was a masterclass in grace and clean.

I actually think that the R231 straddles a line between very simple and purposefully uneventful (understated, classy, like an SL should be), and disjointed/brutal. I have to see it in person to figure out which way M-B wanted to really go with it, or if they put both characters mashed into what would be a confused design.

The fact that M-B didn't slather nonsensical lines like the scars on the side of the CLS or B-Class show that M-B did intend on it being relatively graceful and classy, but I'm still "confused" as to what this cars language is supposed to be.

For the record, I'm still on board in being a fan of the SL, but I still have my questions. I know I won't hate it, as they didn't give me enough to hate, and I certainly can love it, but I need to really digest it to see where my heart will be with it.

 

[Wolfgang]

^ Did I forget the link?

Car Design News -- First Sight: Mercedes-Benz SL by Guy Bird

 

[Gianclaudio]

Almost every review I've read has commented on how evolutionary and tame the car actually appears. Go figure.

Really? Just a quick search:

-Evo: (In the Evo Rating): [-] Awkward styling
-Car and Driver: "What is not so magical, at least to our eyes, is the way this thing looks. It’s ironic that a car that moves this gracefully should look so ungainly."
-Motortrend: "The view from behind the wheel is the best way to look at the new SL. Designers apparently didn't know when to lift the pen; the R231 has too many lines."
-Road and track: "There’s little grace to this new design, but plenty of muscle, the Mercedes cues quite obvious. Too obvious? that's a worthy discussion"
-Autocar where softer with the critich with: "But considered as a whole, the new SL seems plain; next to the SLK and SLS, like just another drop-top clone. It deserves better."
-What car: (In their summary): "Against: the looks won’t be to everyone’s taste"
Autoexpress nor Car Magazine mention anything about the style in theirs reviews, and Edmunds didn't say any good nor worse about: "The SL's new styling picks up where the also new CLS sedan left off. It's more severe. Also more masculine, if a bit less classic."


I know I' not the only who thinks this SL sucks quite badly in the design department, of course, no one has to agree with me, is just a subjective point of view, even somehow as Klier says, it gives me the impression some poeple want to love the SL at any cost, may be just for the fact of being a Mercedes. A similar case to BMW 1er.

Regards

 

[SKY]

I know I' not the only who thinks this SL sucks quite badly in the design department, of course, no one has to agree with me, is just a subjective point of view, even somehow as Klier says, it gives me the impression some poeple want to love the SL at any cost, may be just for the fact of being a Mercedes. A similar case to BMW 1er.

Well, I think it´s a bit different, since the 1er is the cheapest BMW, and the SL the top model. The overall proportions of the 1er are already better in my eyes than anything on its segments. From the side profile, I like the 1er more than the new A3 and the A-Class. The very only problem is the front and rear look weird. I think the LCI 1er will be the absolute king of the segment in the looks department.

The SL is another story. When I look both the new SL and the old one from the side profile, somehow I can see the new one looks worse in terms of stance and proportions, it doesn´t look like a new car. I´m pretty sure that if Audi, and specially BMW make their top market roadsters, they would look much better than the SL in terms of stance and proportions. In fact, I think the SLK has much better proportions than the new SL.

 

[Tarek]

The SL is another story. When I look both the new SL and the old one from the side profile, somehow I can see the new one looks worse in terms of stance and proportions, it doesn´t look like a new car. I´m pretty sure that if Audi, and specially BMW make their top market roadsters, they would look much better than the SL in terms of stance and proportions. In fact, I think the SLK has much better proportions than the new SL.

Lol..

 

[Gianclaudio]

Well, I think it´s a bit different, since the 1er is the cheapest BMW, and the SL the top model. The overall proportions of the 1er are already better in my eyes than anything on its segments. From the side profile, I like the 1er more than the new A3 and the A-Class. The very only problem is the front and rear look weird. I think the LCI 1er will be the absolute king of the segment in the looks department.

The SL is another story. When I look both the new SL and the old one from the side profile, somehow I can see the new one looks worse in terms of stance and proportions, it doesn´t look like a new car. I´m pretty sure that if Audi, and specially BMW make their top market roadsters, they would look much better than the SL in terms of stance and proportions. In fact, I think the SLK has much better proportions than the new SL.

That's why I said this R231 is Mercedes worse design ever, because they manage to ruin an established car, not just their first attempt at a crossover or their first hatcback, or etc.
And then a coupe/cabrio/roadster itself has a lot of freedom in design over function unlike a sedan or hatchback, which is the contrary.

Regards!

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

To me, everything aft of the front wheel is fine. Everything fore of it seems odd. Due to Euro pedestrian laws, that long front overhang makes it look ungainly, especially when seen from a side profile view. The wheels ought to pushed forward a few inches, IMO. And the large headlight units do not do any favors to what is an otherwise elegant and sleek design. And that's the reason I'm turned off by it one day, and tolerant of it some other days. There have not been any days where I fully embrace it. And that's the problem...during my lifetime there have been 3 SL generation that have premiered: the R129, the R230, and the current R231. When the R129 and R230 were released, I instantly loved it. However, this SL has me scratching my head, and to me, shouldn't have me wondering if I like it or not. It ought be instant and without hesitation. This is a car that appeals to the id where I shouldn't have to rationalize design elements. I want to just like looking at it from the get-go. The R231 makes it difficult.

The M6 is, stylistically, beautiful as a coupe. As a convertible, it's good, but not great. Without a roof, it looks too long and a bit ponderous for me. Let me put it this way: I would have trouble parting with my own cash when I know there's a beautiful and utterly capable convertible in the form of a 911 Carrera S cabriolet. Or I'd get a 981 Boxster S and pocket the change.

 

[K-A]

What the HELL is Kohl talking about?

"We want to get back to clean, long-lasting design," director of Mercedes global advanced design and SL project leader, Steffen Kohl told CDN at the exclusive preview of the sixth-generation model. "So the new SL is long, sleek and still full of tension in the feature lines but less wedgy."

In a short presentation Kohl felt all SLs became successfully iconic in their times because they followed two key rules – ‘sensuality' and ‘cleanness' – but alluded that the first rule may have been lost in more recent eras. "We did sensuality for a long time and now we're coming back to it," he confirmed, referencing natural shapes like the female form and cultural designs like a violin plus the clean designs of a classic Braun radio and the third-gen SL (1972-1989) as examples.

WHAT?! Are the designers delirious or something?! Too high off their own supply?!

Their new design are anything but "sensuality and cleanness". Unless he's referring to the SL being a "return to it" after the messy CLS, I can understand, but come on now, the SL certainly has some very good things going for it, but sensuality and cleanness are not one of them when in relation to the R230.

What does he think the R230 was? That thing is as sensual as clean as it gets.... in fact too much so even, it comes off as too passive if someone wants a more dominating design.

What's actually scary is if these guys actually think their new lines of cars: E/CLS/SL/B/A are purely and simply "sensual and clean". They're actually brutal and aggressive more-so than sensual and clean. That would be a red flag as to whether these guys are in a uniformed order within each other and thinking/designing coherently (design team).

 

[Gianclaudio]

I've many theories ( ) about Mercedes design team:

Theorie a: they're good, but completely high on drugs
b: they simply suck, as does the higher comitee who aproves these designs
c: they're paid by Audi or BMW, to make Mercedes so ugly on purpose.

Now, back into reality; it's really sad Mercedes isn't able to find a path or direction design wise, as the cars are excellent in every other aspect and quality and reliability seems to be back as they used to be.

Regards

 

[K-A]

Lol. Probably "A".

IMO, based on my observations, they're the most technically advanced collective, as they do things with design still that awe me more than any other manufacturer, but it's the *leadership* that is in question. I feel the leadership isn't as tight and concise as it should be, and that's showing up on how less focused and less slowly honed some of the products look these days.

With M-B right now, it's either I adore or somewhat dislike their designs. Though, there are some which I mostly adore yet have some frivolous elements that make me thing "AHH, it could have been perfect!" a'la CLS.

 

[mini_cooper4]

OMG with statements like that it shows that even the designers don't know what they were doing and they are talking utter BS trying to explain the crappy result
Blind fools, all over the world

 

[SKY]

After reading what K-A has posted, I think MB is moving away from the wedge shape. We won´t see it in the new C-Class, as the spy pics predicted and some forumers pointed out. I don´t know right now if I like it or not. I do think the W204 C-Class has a nicer stance than the new CLS, and if the new W205 C-Class is moving to that direction, I don´t think I like it.

 

[Wunderkind]

Yes, Mercedes is indeed moving away from the wedge shape profile. It's be coming almost comical. The current E-Class looks like it is performing a permanent emergency stop.

 

[Levi68]

After reading what K-A has posted, I think MB is moving away from the wedge shape. We won´t see it in the new C-Class, as the spy pics predicted and some forumers pointed out. I don´t know right now if I like it or not. I do think the W204 C-Class has a nicer stance than the new CLS, and if the new W205 C-Class is moving to that direction, I don´t think I like it.

Somebody that saw the new C Class W205 in Sedan, Coupé and Convertible form, said it wil be a 180° turn. It will look like no other Mercedes. The C Coupé will go more upmarket, and the E Coupé could be left out.

 

[K-A]

Yes, Mercedes is indeed moving away from the wedge shape profile. It's be coming almost comical. The current E-Class looks like it is performing a permanent emergency stop.

LOL. That's funny (and true).

Though, I mostly like it. I feel with the W212, M-B did whatever they could to make a classically traditional conservative 3-Box Sedan interesting. The emergency-stop, door wedge look just emphasizes aggression as much as they could, which can work or not work considering the overall outcome, depending on who's analyzing it.

I think it's a mistake for M-B to drop the wedge shape. I ALWAYS loved wedge shaped cars, it's just the most natural form of motion, and it sits on the road very well. Straight profiles are more open to looking mundane, IMO, and hight front/low back has to be VERY well executed to work. It doesn't work on the CLS, and to be honest, unless it's a Rolls or a pre 60's Classic, I don't think I've seen too many who have dared attempt it succeed.

 

[SKY]

I think it's a mistake for M-B to drop the wedge shape. I ALWAYS loved wedge shaped cars, it's just the most natural form of motion, and it sits on the road very well. Straight profiles are more open to looking mundane, IMO, and hight front/low back has to be VERY well executed to work. It doesn't work on the CLS, and to be honest, unless it's a Rolls or a pre 60's Classic, I don't think I've seen too many who have dared attempt it succeed.

True, look how bad the CLS looks from this angle.

 

[K-A]

Yup. The side view is unfortunately appallingly disjointed to to SO many wayward motions. Is it a wedge? An anti wedge? Straight? It's confused.

Shame, as its shape and proportions are so damn great, but the details are there as if to confuse your eye from not seeing the simple and pure beauty within it.

I prefer the E's profile in terms of design direction, forget that one is a "4-Door Coupe" and one is a stately Sedan, forget the shapes that the cars require to fit the bill of their marketed and functional intent.... it at least all goes in one direction, one theme: Pure wedge, angular and downward/raked motion wedge.

 

[Merc1]

The E-Class Cabriolet is the best looking E-class by a mile. After seeing so many over the last few warm days with their tops down I could own one of those.


M

 

[Merc1]

True, look how bad the CLS looks from this angle.

IMO it isn't the proportions per say, its those stupid lines that mess up the look there.



M

 

[K-A]

The E-Class Cabriolet is the best looking E-class by a mile. After seeing so many over the last few warm days with their tops down I could own one of those.


M

Blech, I hate the E Cab, lol. Then, I hate Convertibles, and I don't fully love the E-Coupe, I like it, but it doesn't have that true "it" factor to my senses. If it was truly based on the E platform, at E size (making it a 6er competitor, with a more luxurious and elegant length/size), I think some of the "cuteness" of it would go wayside, and it would look very rich.