Vs 2013 Bentley CGT W12 vs. BMW M6

[K-A]

Yeah, but some cars carry their prices better. This doesn't even make them nice or better cars, but simply carrying their asking prices better.

For example, if someone offered me either of them for free, I might take an M6, or any 6 over a Bentley GC (*might*), but I would rather pay $150K for a GC than pay $110K for a 650i.

Sure, I just said that I might like the 6 better than a GC, regardless of price, in that I'd actually take one off a lot over a GC if I had to spend no money. However, I also acknowledge that one carries its premium more effectively than the other one. Gadgets, design, tech, etc are just small factors when you get to these stupidly huge prices. After all, these are just cars, they all do generally the same things, but when you get into "bragging rights" dollars, you want a car that carries said "bragging rights", per-se. A 6-Series which looks like every other BMW just with a different form doesn't make sense at its price like a Bentley GC which is a much more bespoke car, but a more boutique manufacturer.

And yes, these cars obviously have a "magical premium" built into their prices. Of course, you're paying for engineering and design, etc. But lots of people could buy a Camry decked out for half the price of my E-Class that does everything my car does, give or take here and there. Not to mention, maybe they even like their design better. As the cars get more expensive, the value per dollar gets less.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Seriously, 58 freaking replies before this.

V12 Conti doesn't exist, and has never even existed. It's a V8 now, and it was a W12 before. Incredible?

And Sunny...because it's a V8 (the Bentley) you pick the M6? And if it would have been a V12 you'd pick the Bentley? Why? Makes it even heavier and thirstier then it already is.

BTW, I have to say I think this new Bentley is a vast improvement over the previous. The only thing I am not the biggest fan of is the front, but the interior and side profile are spectacular!

Hmm the V8 is just an addition... The W12 stays

 

[Human]

All this talking about the prices of recent Bimmers is getting completely out of control. Seriously. The new M5 is in most EU countries even less expensive than the previous M5, and the same will count for the M6. That's because of the turbocharged engine and better fuel economy. 6er has always been expensive, and the M6 was crazy expensive 5 years ago already...

Now I know some here like to b!tch for the sake of it, but even when it's about something completely irrelevant/old? Can't you try better? The price BMW asks for it's cars is not a problem looking at the sales the last couple of years, and even then, it's mostly less than a comparable Benz. A BMW is expensive and overpriced, sure. But that counts for every other brand that pretends to be premium.

You can say that again! That's why I multi-quoted in bold

 

[Sunny]

Seriously, 58 freaking replies before this.

V12 Conti doesn't exist, and has never even existed. It's a V8 now, and it was a W12 before. Incredible?

The W12 still exists. They added a new V8 version now. What doesn't exists and never existed is a CGT with a V12 - making this stupid comparison even more ridiculous.

 

[Deckhook]

And what a glorious sounding Bentley this new V8 is.

 

[EKaru]

And what a glorious sounding Bentley this new V8 is.

Which is an Audi V8 (S8)... Does it still have cylinder deactivation and engine sounds channelled through the audio system to compensate for the 4-cylinder sound?

 

[GTA45E]

BTW, I have to say I think this new Bentley is a vast improvement over the previous. The only thing I am not the biggest fan of is the front, but the interior and side profile are spectacular!

Totally agree with you there but you still didn`t state which one you would choose...

So the CL isn't "special and different"? Com'on.
And then, what about the guy who has a Mulsanne on his garage, wouln't he like something different and shop for a CL?

Absolutly! the CL is special and different, only when you don`t have another Mercedes in your garage. If I bought a new S-Class I wouln`t buy a CL.
If I bought the Bentley Mulsanna I wouldn`t buy the Continental GT. I like variety as you stated...

I see it`s rather difficult for some members to get out of the garage with number crunching, technical features, short-comings and what not. Thats not what this thread is about. It`s about an emotional attraction. There are some people who actually value the M6 more than the Bentley dispite it`s short comings which is pure emotion. There are some who are going to feel the same about the Bentley. It`s about emotion and what your attracted to.

This is going to be your weekend, weeknight "show off" car you will be using on the streets in your everyday life. You might be using it on a Sunday picnic with your girlfriend. Or go to Church with your brother or other family members. Lets leave the tech stuff in the garage...

 

[mini_cooper4]

Which is an Audi V8 (S8)... Does it still have cylinder deactivation and engine sounds channelled through the audio system to compensate for the 4-cylinder sound?

It has cylinder deactivation - it becomes a 4 banger

 

[Deckhook]

^ A 2.0L 4 banger no less. Though I doubt too many will notice this from inside such a well insulated cockpit.

 

[Guibo]

The M6 is a fine example of a mass-produced motorcar being done well and will real taste (especially the interior) but I have a REAL problem with it's price, in particular the difference between it and it's 4 door twin the M5, how can BMW justify £18,000 more?

Simple. It's basic economics. Look at the pricing difference in the E60 vs E63 generation.

M5: £61,775
M6: £79,760

It's about the same difference. You could ask that question back in 2006, as I'm sure many people did. But by the end of M6 production (14,000 units), you'd have your answer: BMW can justify that price because people were willing to pay it. Doubt it will be much different in the newer generation of cars. Simple fact is, some people don't want/need 4 doors and would prefer the elegance of a 2-door coupe, or the open air motoring of a convertible (which in the old car started at £86,400).


As for comparisons with the rest of the 6er lineup, remember that BMW's Gerhard Richter said many people didn't see the M3 as a motorsport-derived product, but instead wanted it merely because it was the top variant of its model line. This is probably even more true of the M6.

 

[Deckhook]

^ It's true if people are willing to buy then why wouldn't BMW stick the arm in. I just dont agree with a amount being asked over the equivalent M5, compared with most other 4 vs 2 door models the gap being expected to pay is enormous.

I suppose there's a mug born every minute.

 

[Gianclaudio]

And how about VW and Audis?

 

[Guibo]

^ It's true if people are willing to buy then why wouldn't BMW stick the arm in. I just dont agree with a amount being asked over the equivalent M5, compared with most other 4 vs 2 door models the gap being expected to pay is enormous.
I suppose there's a mug born every minute.

But being 4 doors and lacking the coupe's styling (and lacking the open-air experience of the convertible), the M5 isn't exactly equivalent.

One doesn't have to be a mug to pass up an M5 for an M6. That's the beauty of the free market: You have the choice. "Being expected to pay"...if people don't like it, they don't have to pay it. BMW gives them the choice.
You also haven't taken into account that the M6 isn't as widely produced as the M5. It's no Bentley but the case can be made that it's a more exotic vehicle than the M5. But why single out the M6? At 28.4% more expensive than the M5, it's not that much different from the 650i SE being 26.9% more expensive than the 550i SE (both with 407 hp). The 640d SE is 40% more expensive than the 535d SE, both with 313 hp; 640d SE Gran Coupe is + 44%. Would you likewise describe a 640d customer as a "mug?"

 

[klier]

^^ well said

Totally agree with you there but you still didn`t state which one you would choose...

The M6 because it's the superior car with matching looks.
But I can't deny the Bentley is far more special, exclusive and bespoke. And I fully understand the people who pick the CGT over the M6.

Yeah, but some cars carry their prices better. This doesn't even make them nice or better cars, but simply carrying their asking prices better.

Subjective, and thus completely and utterly pointless to discuss. Just like I am not going to discuss design.

And how about VW and Audis?

Haha, good question

 

[Deckhook]

But being 4 doors and lacking the coupe's styling (and lacking the open-air experience of the convertible), the M5 isn't exactly equivalent.

One doesn't have to be a mug to pass up an M5 for an M6. That's the beauty of the free market: You have the choice. "Being expected to pay"...if people don't like it, they don't have to pay it. BMW gives them the choice.
You also haven't taken into account that the M6 isn't as widely produced as the M5. It's no Bentley but the case can be made that it's a more exotic vehicle than the M5. But why single out the M6? At 28.4% more expensive than the M5, it's not that much different from the 650i SE being 26.9% more expensive than the 550i SE (both with 407 hp). The 640d SE is 40% more expensive than the 535d SE, both with 313 hp; 640d SE Gran Coupe is + 44%. Would you likewise describe a 640d customer as a "mug?"

I'm not sure I would value the coupe styling as worth this percentage more than the equivalent saloon but then that's just me because I feel a 10-12% increase is more justifed and also when I say 'a mug born every minute' again that it my opinion on it and is not reflective of what others might feel, just because I am not willing to pay it doesn't mean someone else would jump at it. I just look at the 3 series as a great example of saloon vs coupe within the same make and don't see this same percentage increase, surely if it's all about styling then the same should be true for it also?

I just see it as BMW ripping the arse out of it just because they can in much the same way as Porsche do with their 911.

 

[Deckhook]

And how about VW and Audis?

The problem with that statement is that they aren't the same make or have the same brand status, it's apples and oranges.

 

[GTA45E]

The W12 still exists. They added a new V8 version now. What doesn't exists and never existed is a CGT with a V12 - making this stupid comparison even more ridiculous.

lOl Sunny, you are a troll. I took the liberty to ask a mod to change the header to W.. ok?

The M6 because it's the superior car with matching looks.
But I can't deny the Bentley is far more special, exclusive and bespoke. And I fully understand the people who pick the CGT over the M6.

Well rounded post. I happen to agree...

Another look at the profiles of the new one vs the previous GT

 

[Sunny]

lOl Sunny, you are a troll. I took the liberty to ask a mod to change the header to W.. ok?

Yes, stating facts is what trolls do.

Oh and btw guys, this troll has another comparison, say I am a russian billionair and brought a $88 million penthouse in NY cash down and now have a few billions left in a Cayman account, should I get a M3 or a Veyron V16. I don`t think this should be a poll, (there are so many BMW fans here... )
I just want to know the reason why you would choose one over the other. I really do. Please don`t be biased with badges, (this is real, very real)...

ps. And do not dare correct me about the V16 or point out the ridiculousness of this post or I will label you a troll.

 

[Guibo]

I'm not sure I would value the coupe styling as worth this percentage more than the equivalent saloon but then that's just me because I feel a 10-12% increase is more justifed and also when I say 'a mug born every minute' again that it my opinion on it and is not reflective of what others might feel, just because I am not willing to pay it doesn't mean someone else would jump at it. I just look at the 3 series as a great example of saloon vs coupe within the same make and don't see this same percentage increase, surely if it's all about styling then the same should be true for it also?
I just see it as BMW ripping the arse out of it just because they can in much the same way as Porsche do with their 911.

What's wrong with that? You seem to be having a serious problem with the way the free market works, and we've had this discussion before. Is that the case? The answer to your question of how BMW can justify it is the same as it always has been: It's because the market will bear it. Whether you disagree with how the free market works, as it relates to automobile sales, is largely irrelevant and you'd be hard pressed to find a better alternative. What, are you going to force BMW to somehow keep price disparity to your arbitrary 10-12%? Why not make it 3%?
If I had the money, I wouldn't necessarily be jumping to pay for a Veyron, but would I be on solid ground to label those who would as "mugs?" This implies some kind of duplicity on the manufacturer's part in swindling money from people who couldn't appreciate the benefits of having a Veyron (vs using their money for other purposes). You are quite sure that 6er and Veyron buyers are so totally inept and undiscerning as to fall victim to some evil and predatory practices by those companies? I have a hard time believing that Veyron (or even 6er) customers are so unsophisticated.
And that brings up your point about 3er vs 6er pricing differences between coupes and sedans: Perhaps BMW feel that those in a financial position to buy a 5er sedan would make the extra stretch to the 6er coupe whereas it's not as true in the lower class where people are more value-conscious. Then there's the possibility that some shopping for a 6er wouldn't even be cross-shopping against a 5-series sedan at all. With 14000+ of the last-gen M6 sold, it's not like there isn't a precedent to go by.
So now you're saying that those who buy top-end Panameras or GT2 RSs are unwitting victims in some plot by Porsche to swindle unsuspecting people out of their (obvious pretty well off) riches?

 

[GTA45E]

Yes, stating facts is what trolls do.

Oh and btw guys, this troll has another comparison, say I am a russian billionair and brought a $88 million penthouse in NY cash down and now have a few billions left in a Cayman account, should I get a M3 or a Veyron V16. I don`t think this should be a poll, (there are so many BMW fans here... )
I just want to know the reason why you would choose one over the other. I really do. Please don`t be biased with badges, (this is real, very real)...

ps. And do not dare correct me about the V16 or point out the ridiculousness of this post or I will label you a troll.

Well, to be truthful, I actually created this thread for a friend of mine who happens to be in the market and is interested in both these cars. Thats why I posted the thread here
If you don`t care to post don`t bother. It`s that simple.