F1 2012 Brazilian GP

[MoSs]

Although Alonso hasn't had the best car, the car isn't anywhere as terrible as people make it out to be. Qualifying performance hasn't been any good but race pace has been up there. Alonso has been able to push like crazy without any aggressive tire wear and Massa was on Sunday fast enough to challenge for victory if his job had not been to block for Alonso.

Like I said before, Vettel has been lucky to have a very competitive car while Alonso has been lucky not to have suffered much bad luck. It looks even to me.

Vettel had a faster car, but that Ferrari was rock solid, they had no reliability issues all season.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Just to put an end to the myth of Vettel having a rocketship, you only have to see his team mate in the standings, if it was only driven by webber, no one would ever talk about an RBR domination, it only regained its supreme quli pace at the last 4-5 GPs. The ferrari did not enjoy such transformation but it was far from being the turd some want to make it look like, if Massa was performing at his current level from the very start of the season, things would have been regarded very differently. In fact i think the Macca on the whole season could be regarded as the fastest car but the team f#cking up systemticaly shadowed that fact.

 

[Monster]

Just to put an end to the myth of Vettel having a rocketship, you only have to see his team mate in the standings, if it was only driven by webber, no one would ever talk about an RBR domination

To be fair to Webber, he has a few gearbox grid penalty and KERS problems, he is also taller and 10kg heavier than Vettel, which means he has less optimum location to place the ballasts to balance his car.

 

[MoSs]

Webber isn't a good example, he's track picky and can't handle any pressure.

 

[Centurion]

Webber isn't a good example, he's track picky and can't handle any pressure.

It's not the full story. Vettel has the development of the car geared towards his driving style, Vettel doesn't. Remember the start of the season when Red Bull had to run two specs of the car because Vettel didnt like the new spec.

 

[Sunny]

I will just make a few points and leave it at that -

No one wins a F1 championship with out a competitive car, not Schumi, not even Senna. A couple of races? sure, a championship, no.

When the RB was good this year, Vettel got the best out of it and won 4 races on the tot. Webber had the same car but got no where. Other times, when the car wasn't competitive, he did what Alonso did and brought home points at least when the car did't fail.

Vettel did not start his F1 career with a RB car like Hamilton did with McLaren, he worked his way into it. He had one shot after Kubica's crash in Canada in 07, he got the most out of that one opportunity by finishing in the points and being the youngest driver to do so. That got him a crappy Torro Rosso drive in 08, where again he excelled including giving them the first pole and win at Monza (and in the process being the youngest driver to do either). and outscoring Newey designed RB cars that season. Only then did he get a RB drive.

RB sported Newey designed cars in 07 and 08 but did not win a single race or even a single pole position till Vettel joined RB in 09.

 

[Deleted member 25]

To be fair to Webber, he has a few gearbox grid penalty and KERS problems, he is also taller and 10kg heavier than Vettel, which means he has less optimum location to place the ballasts to balance his car.

Vettel had also his share of mechanical failures that cost him dearly, concerning the weight, i am sorry but that could be said about every driver on the grid as there has always be bigger drivers than others, that didn't stop Kubica, on of the tallest on the grid, destroying Heidfeld which was the lightest and tiniest driver, at a time where available ballast was much more critical (On the first year of Kers introduction, the minimum weigh of the car was 605 KG and not the actual 620 kg) SO Webber has no excuse or whatsoever, not only he performed very poorly with the car, he as a team player was also 'shitty', as he has always been much more tough on Vettel than on his buddy Alonso, and that continued until Brazil GP where he had absolutely nothing to gain. When he finaly opened the gate for Vettel, i think that was because he had a direct order from his team.

Webber isn't a good example, he's track picky and can't handle any pressure.

Because Felipe isn't like that ?

It's not the full story. Vettel has the development of the car geared towards his driving style, Vettel doesn't. Remember the start of the season when Red Bull had to run two specs of the car because Vettel didnt like the new spec.

That's a myth, there's no such thing as developing the car for a certain driver. Actually in the Schumacher era, the F-2002 and F-2004 suited Barichello more than Schumi, was that because Ferrari wanted the car to suit Barichello more ? No it designed the car in a way it thought it was the one that would give them the fastest car. All what you can do to suit a driver is to play with the setup. The team let Vettel run a different configuration than Webber because it was lost and wanted to make back to back comp, just like what Mercedes has done recently with their exhaust.

 

[Centurion]

That's a myth, there's no such thing as developing the car for a certain driver. Actually in the Schumacher era, the F-2002 and F-2004 suited Barichello more than Schumi, was that because Ferrari wanted the car to suit Barichello more ? No it designed the car in a way it thought it was the one that would give them the fastest car. All what you can do to suit a driver is to play with the setup. The team let Vettel run a different configuration than Webber because it was lost and wanted to make back to back comp, just like what Mercedes has done recently with their exhaust.

Do you think that if it was Webber struggling to come to grips with an exhaust that Red Bull would have offered him the option of using a different configuration which would have meant that the team and everyone at the factory would have need to optimize for two different cars? very unlikely.

Although the initial development of a car is very much science led by computers and engineers, the end product will be driven by a human. Whether it's a driver who does late braking and is aggressive on turn ins or one who likes to early apex and hug the whole curb, the direction of development would need to take that into account. Sure much of it is setup by tuning the angle of the front wing and dampers, but it's also hardware related. Vettel and Button were amazingly comfortable last year with double decker diffusers, this year they are nowhere as confident in the car meanwhile their rivals are performing admirably with reduced down force at the rear.

This is why having equal status in a team is great for politics and team spirit but less so for winning championships, which is why I have good understanding of what Red Bull are doing even though I despise Helmut Marko.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I will just make a few points and leave it at that -

No one wins a F1 championship with out a competitive car, not Schumi, not even Senna. A couple of races? sure, a championship, no.

When the RB was good this year, Vettel got the best out of it and won 4 races on the tot. Webber had the same car but got no where. Other times, when the car wasn't competitive, he did what Alonso did and brought home points at least when the car did't fail.

Vettel did not start his F1 career with a RB car like Hamilton did with McLaren, he worked his way into it. He had one shot after Kubica's crash in Canada in 07, he got the most out of that one opportunity by finishing in the points and being the youngest driver to do so. That got him a crappy Torro Rosso drive in 08, where again he excelled including giving them the first pole and win at Monza (and in the process being the youngest driver to do either). and outscoring Newey designed RB cars that season. Only then did he get a RB drive.

RB sported Newey designed cars in 07 and 08 but did not win a single race or even a single pole position till Vettel joined RB in 09.

True, no one can disagree with what you wrote but the quote in your previous post was BS

 

[Deleted member 25]

Do you think that if it was Webber struggling to come to grips with an exhaust that Red Bull would have offered him the option of using a different configuration which would have meant that the team and everyone at the factory would have need to optimize for two different cars? very unlikely.

Although the initial development of a car is very much science led by computers and engineers, the end product will be driven by a human. Whether it's a driver who does late braking and is aggressive on turn ins or one who likes to early apex and hug the whole curb, the direction of development would need to take that into account. Sure much of it is setup by tuning the angle of the front wing and dampers, but it's also hardware related. Vettel and Button were amazingly comfortable last year with double decker diffusers, this year they are nowhere as confident in the car meanwhile their rivals are performing admirably with reduced down force at the rear.

This is why having equal status in a team is great for politics and team spirit but less so for winning championships, which is why I have good understanding of what Red Bull are doing even though I despise Helmut Marko.

Again you are wrong, Red Bull did let him race with a cofiguration other the one Vettel raced with, they offered them both to choose and it he end they knew what was wrog and after many iterations they hit the sweet spot. There was no driver preference involved in this process. And about designing the car, there's not a single team that will design a car more oversteery or understeery to suit a driver's style. That would be shhoting yur self in the foot. A car is always designed to be as neutral as possible.

 

[Bartek S.]

 

[Sunny]

New footage proves geen flag during Vettel overtake.